Colonel Hessler
Conscript
"F?R DEN KAISER!" Battlecry, "Kampfgruppe Hessler", 5th Kriegs Panzer Division, Krieg Death Korps
Posts: 48
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Post by Colonel Hessler on Feb 2, 2010 3:18:32 GMT -5
You've seen it in movie theaters... You've seen it on video game consoles... You've even seen it on the shelves in toy stores... Now...see it in Warhammer 40K scale for use on the tabletop! For your consideration and review, I hereby present my latest Conversion: the “Avatar” Pattern Imperial Guard AMP (Amplified Mobility Platform) Sentinel Mark II!At first, I just wanted to see if I could actually figure out a way to construct a reasonable facsimile of the AMP Suit (from Avatar) in Warhammer 40K scale - as a " one-shot" side project, if you will - and built a "Mark I Prototype" version (not shown) to test the idea. Then, very recently, I just happened to find some "components" that have allowed me to drastically modify my original "Mark I Prototype" design (the appearance of which I was never very pleased with, anyway) in a way that allows the new design to mimic the appearance of the Avatar AMP Suit MUCH MORE CLOSELY - even IF the figure hasn't been painted yet (and, like the "Prototype", STILL can't quite manage to fire the Autocannon with both hands at the same time)... The shoulders, elbows, wrists and torso are fully articulated and movable. The Sentinel/AMP Suit's weapons systems have been magnetized and can be removed/switched out as needed (this even includes the ammunition belt for the Autocannon and the Promethium tank for the Heavy Flamer!). The only exception to this is the sheathed " Combat Knife" mounted on the side of the cockpit (which is just there for "decoration", anyway - and the movie version DID carry one, after all...). And, before anybody calls me out on this - I AM aware that a Sentinel can't use an Autocannon AND a Heavy Flamer at the same time during a Warhammer 40K game. But, as the Avatar AMP Suit is supposed to be able to mount an "optional flamethrower" (according to the "tech specs"), I decided it would look pretty cool if I added one to my version. And, I suppose I COULD use the Vehicle Design Rules to create a version that COULD carry both weapons in "friendly" games... Now, my much-improved Mark II "Production Model" design has inspired me to begin work on a brand new army project: an " Avatar-style" Imperial Guard "Air Cav" army. Now, if I can just figure out how to model the RDA SecFor Troopers properly ( AND figure out how to afford all those Sentinels, Valkyries, and Vendettas I'm going to need now)... Questions, comments, and critiques are all welcome...
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 2, 2010 3:23:07 GMT -5
I like the chainsaw but I think they way you've mounted it could use some work.
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Post by Warden on Feb 2, 2010 8:38:05 GMT -5
WoW, quite the conversion! I like it a lot!! Only thing is the gun, it just seems to small for the suit. If I where doing it Id make a bigger gun, and not have him hold it like a pistol but a "weapons system you put your hand into" if you know what I mean? And with the bigger gun have the other hand that isnt doing anything at the moment support the gun. As if it was a rifle og sorts. Just my thoughts, but loving the work and idea!!!
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Post by marine66 on Feb 2, 2010 10:17:41 GMT -5
i agree if u can lengthen the gun and beef it up a bit more and have the other hand support it overall though looks good
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Colonel Hessler
Conscript
"F?R DEN KAISER!" Battlecry, "Kampfgruppe Hessler", 5th Kriegs Panzer Division, Krieg Death Korps
Posts: 48
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Post by Colonel Hessler on Feb 2, 2010 12:30:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments!
@ Ymmot:
I thought the chainsaw would look o.k. (where I mounted it, representing a "powered" bayonet) if it appeared sort of "connected" to the small pipe section (below the Autocannon barrel) extending forward from the lower portion of the Autocannon's main body (representing a power cable, maybe?). I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have to make this look better...
@ Warden:
I agree - it does look a "little" too small for the suit. However, GW (as far as I know) doesn't make a larger Autocannon piece bigger than the one I used (it's the one from the Heavy Weapon Squad sprue, NOT the tiny little one that comes standard on the Sentinel sprue now). I used the largest one I had available...and I wanted the miniature to use authentic, recognizable Imperial Guard weaponry (I DO plan to use it as a "Counts As" Sentinel, after all)...
I DID think about using one of those "Long-Barrel" Hydra Autocannons (from Forge World) instead...but that would be MURDEROUSLY expensive. I COULD use Green Stuff to sculpt an "enclosed handgrip" of sorts, to make it look like the gun is an "extension" of the arm - but then the figure would mimic the AMP Suit less.
I've already experimented with this. The problem isn't so much with the Autocannon itself (both hands CAN grip it) - the problem is with the arms and the body (i.e., the cockpit). The Sentinel cockpit extends VERY FAR FORWARD and 'low" on the body (moreso than the AMP Suit's cockpit), and requires VERY LONG ARMS to "reach around it". The "elbow joint" piece I used for the right arm (the gun arm) is actually one single piece (pre-made at a near right angle) and can't actually be bent/extended (as it is) without making that arm look really weird. I DID think about trying to modify the piece (using a spare part to experiment with) so that the elbow joint would appear "extended" (lengthing it sufficiently (I think...) so that both hands could then grip the Autocannon). Unfortunately, this left the joint on the gun arm (and the magnets on the elbow joint as well) too weak to physically support the weight of the Autocannon (I tried it - it broke...). If you have any suggestions about how I could accomplish this, I would GREATLY appreciate them (that's the "look/pose" I want the figure to have!). @ marine66:
I was affraid that "lengthening" & "beefing up" the gun too much would add too much weight to it and might also detract from its intended appearance as an "obvious" Imperial Guard Autocannon. And, as I just described to Warden, I still haven't been able to successfully come up with a viable method of getting both hands on the gun. If you have ANY suggestions as to how I could accomplish this, PLEASE let me know (that's the "style/position" I want the figure to hold its weapon in, too!).
Thanks again to each of you...keep the comments and suggestions coming...I NEED TO FIND A WAY TO GET BOTH OF ITS HANDS ON THE AUTOCANNON!
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Post by marine66 on Feb 2, 2010 13:04:49 GMT -5
whiklst the flamer looks cool if u removed it would the arm fit around?
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Post by Warden on Feb 2, 2010 13:23:35 GMT -5
I see your point(s)! Indeed the flamer is cool and fits the fluff of the suit, but could it not be rebuilt into the left arm, to make room for the autocannon plus give it more freedom in usage. Thinking the hand/arm mounted flamer (much like a dreadnought) would allow a huge tactical advantage as you could use the flamer more freely, high and low instead of a more static use of a hull mounted weapon. On the beefiness of the autocannon I understand that it has to actually be an AC for opponent ease. Which AC are you using, the heavy weapons team one.? As the weapons from there seem bigger then most other. Another option could be mounting two autocannons together, in effect creating a twin-linked look... But dunno how you feel about that In regards to the arm length contra the length of the cage... Would it be possible to let the gun cross the body just below the cage and not in front of it.? To be honest though I might have changed my mind a little bit about the gun holding, as you plan to use make the arms moveable right.? (Which I think is awesome btw!
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Colonel Hessler
Conscript
"F?R DEN KAISER!" Battlecry, "Kampfgruppe Hessler", 5th Kriegs Panzer Division, Krieg Death Korps
Posts: 48
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Post by Colonel Hessler on Feb 2, 2010 13:43:56 GMT -5
whiklst the flamer looks cool if u removed it would the arm fit around? Good idea (that's one of the reasons I MAGNETIZED it - since it could never hold the Autocannon " two-handed" with the Flamer there, anyway)! Unfortunately, it didn't seem to help (I tried that already...). If the cockpit of the Sentinel didn't have to " stick out" as far as it does, this wouldn't be a problem (if you take a close look at the " side" photos, you'll notice that I positioned the cockpit with a slight " downward" angle in an attempt to limit how far forward the front of it " sticks out" - but it still wasn't anywhere near enough). On my " Mark I Prototype" model, I had a similar problem when I tried to reach the hands " underneath" the cockpit (which, on that model, is positioned " level" with the rest of the vehicle hull)...it still extends too low for it to work that way, either. Thanks for trying, though!Keep 'em coming, folks...I really want to find a workable way to do this, I just can't seem to think of one myself...
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Post by marine66 on Feb 2, 2010 14:04:59 GMT -5
i know this is very drastic and really not very doable u could replace the sentinel cocpit with a scratch built one using the clear windows from the valkyrie and some plasticard so it doesnt stick out so much
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Colonel Hessler
Conscript
"F?R DEN KAISER!" Battlecry, "Kampfgruppe Hessler", 5th Kriegs Panzer Division, Krieg Death Korps
Posts: 48
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Post by Colonel Hessler on Feb 2, 2010 15:01:13 GMT -5
I fiddled with the movable (i.e., magnetized) shoulders, arms, elbows, wrists, hands and weapons a bit more... Does THIS look better? The left arm still isn't quite long enough for the left hand to " grasp" the Autocannon by the bar underneath the gun barrel ( where it would grip it if it were a human hand gripping an assault rifle or sub-machine gun), but it CAN grasp the bayonet housing (or, at least, " appear" to be doing so - this is another reason why I mounted it the way I did, Ymmot), and I think it's awfully close...close enough, I think, that it LOOKS like it's using both hands to hold and fire the Autocannon, anyway...). Now, I think I REALLY DO have " an Apache Helicopter with legs"...judge for yourself: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO60w-bTcVMThe only problem NOW is, when the AMP Sentinel Mk II is carrying/firing the Autocannon " two-handed", the Sentinel Pilot can't even see what he's shooting at! Lousy BS 3...oh, well...the Imperial Guard isn't really about ACCURACY of fire, it's about VOLUME of fire... Now I have to try and build about EIGHT MORE of these ( and THIS one took a couple of days of nearly non-stop work to get it right...)! And, on top of that, I'm torn between painting these new Sentinels " black-and-gray", to go with my existing Death Korps of Krieg army, or doing what I originally planned and starting a brand new " RDA SecFor" " Air Cav" army with an " army camo green" color scheme (like that seen in the movie)... Opinions?
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Post by marine66 on Feb 2, 2010 15:22:43 GMT -5
Whilst i do like the colour scheme for the origional ones from the movie it makes more sense to use the colours from your current army
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Post by StillANoob on Feb 3, 2010 5:54:36 GMT -5
I have to disagree with marine. I've been following the DKOK thread and i really liked the idea and the fluffiness behind it. If you put them into it it will complete go against the fluff. The AMP suit looks goddamn FREAKING AWSOME! (just so you know ) but i would wait until you've completed your DKOK army OR you could make these suits whenever you got sick of your DKOK army. I know occasionally i get a bit tired of my guardsmen, so i make scenery. When I've done a good job i usual go wow thats nice i think my guard should run around and shoot at stuff from there. Gets me right back into them. Perhaps when you've completed your DKOK army you could make an aw some avatar army..?
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Post by Warden on Feb 3, 2010 9:45:53 GMT -5
Hmm, Im not sure of this new pose tbh... It looks a bit messy and forced. Think the original did look better afterall as it doesnt look so cluttered as this one, its hard to see whats what and tbh I dont think it would work with the driver not being able to see, BS3 regardless...
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Colonel Hessler
Conscript
"F?R DEN KAISER!" Battlecry, "Kampfgruppe Hessler", 5th Kriegs Panzer Division, Krieg Death Korps
Posts: 48
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Post by Colonel Hessler on Feb 3, 2010 13:14:48 GMT -5
Posted by Warden on Today at 10:45amIt WAS a bit "forced"...but, as I built it to be "posable", at least the figure doesn't have to STAY in this position...I tend to agree with you. I just wanted the miniature's limbs to be able to ACHIEVE the "two-handed" look (for the purpose of "posing variety" within Squadrons of these "AMP Sentinels"). I figure I could have (maybe) one in three of these posed like this (as seen in the movie), with the other two sweeping their torsos (which rotate) left and right (in the original pose), searching for targets...
Posted by stillanoob on Today at 6:54amThanks a lot! I put a lot of effort into it. Keep on following, more new stuff IS coming!After reflecting upon this, I came to the same conclusion that you did. I agree with you.Many thanks! It was VERY DIFFICULT to construct, and I really appreciate it!I agree - This project should take second place to my DKoK army.
However - the "non-GW components" which I used to produce this "Mark II" version of the AMP Sentinel are "limited-run". I want to build at least three full Squadrons of these (eventually) so I've got to go out NOW and grab at least EIGHT MORE copies of the exact same "toy" figure I used to scavenge for parts, BEFORE they go and disappear off the store shelves permanently...
That way, I can always build them later on (as you suggested).
By the way, everybody...just curious...do you think (for the purposes of a "friendly" game, of course) that it would be improper for me to suggest to my opponent that, based on the "increased mass" of the additional body components (from the arms, the larger main gun, the shoulder armor, the larger engine section, the "supposedly" reinforced bulletproof glass cockpit (which the movie version has), etc.), that this "AMP Sentinel" design should be allowed to "Count As" an ARMORED Sentinel?
I know I'd be losing Scouts and Move Thru Cover, but I REALLY LIKE the idea of having a Frontal Armor of 12 instead of 10...it'd be a heck of a lot more survivable...or, maybe I could even get away with the figure being allowed (depending on the situation, and decided before game setup) to "Count As" EITHER a Scout OR an Armored Sentinel...?
Opinions?
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Post by Warden on Feb 3, 2010 14:32:45 GMT -5
Indeed the magnet assembly is awesome and allows for great diversity, hats off for it! In regards of the armoured sentinel I would have NO problem with it being count as. Not even in a tourney, the two original models are very close, mostly a couple of windscreen wipers in difference. Indeed if you make windows and a roof there can be no argument imo
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Post by StillANoob on Feb 3, 2010 17:28:40 GMT -5
in relation to putting both hands on the weapon, perhaps you could have a grip extending out from the weapon which the hand grasps? also i would have no problems playing against that as either armoured or scout.....until you started winning, then i might complain seriously though i wouldnt have any issue as long as you still follow normal rules
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Colonel Hessler
Conscript
"F?R DEN KAISER!" Battlecry, "Kampfgruppe Hessler", 5th Kriegs Panzer Division, Krieg Death Korps
Posts: 48
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Post by Colonel Hessler on Feb 3, 2010 23:40:46 GMT -5
How about THIS pose? Note that this time, it's holding the Autocannon by the carrying handle, not the pistol grip. I could use this pose to denote an AMP Sentinel armed with a Heavy Flamer (which can easily be seen on the right side of the cockpit), or with any one of the other available weapons it could carry. All those AMP Sentinels armed with the standard Autocannon could each use the " two-handed" pose, which nescessitates the removal of the hull-mounted weapon, anyway. This way, I can keep the Autocannon on the figure (which I intend all of my AMP Sentinels to be armed with as their primary weapon system), even when the unit " Counts As" actually being armed with a different Heavy Weapon (such as a Lascannon). Since all of the other IG Heavy Weapons on the new Sentinel sprue are noticeably smaller than their IG Heavy Weapon sprue equivalents, I could just magnetize each of the smaller Heavy Weapons (other than the Autocannon) and put them on the side of the hull. Beats the heck out of trying to model a Sentinel-sized pistol grip for a Plasma Cannon, anyway. ... ... Wait a minute... ... Hmmmm....
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Post by mccaptain on Feb 4, 2010 2:18:30 GMT -5
Very cool! And with arms it makes since that is actually has a WS and can fight in CC! Even if it doesn't look 100% the same, its still and AWESOME model!
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Post by Happyorange on Feb 4, 2010 14:59:29 GMT -5
Very interesting! I like the first pose the best, although you should do something with its left arm.
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