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Post by Trickstick on Mar 13, 2012 21:36:30 GMT -5
So, the experimenting continues. Recently I dropped the two priests and a lot of melta bombs, picking up the second demolisher. However, I feel that I may be in need of some detached criticism. So, here it is:
CCS - LC, Vox, Astropath
Platoon A PCS - 3 x MG, Vox, Al'rahem Inf - PW, MG, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG Inf - PW, MG, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG
Platoon B PCS - 3 x F, Vox Inf - PW, MG, AC, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG, AC Inf - PW, MG, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG
2 x Demolisher w/ LC Manticore Manticore
So, I think the main problems that I have with this list are:
- The flamer PCS. Does very little other than throw an order out every so often. Was thinking about trading the flamers for a lascannon, although this would limit their ability to move up field.
- Platoon B has only 2 ACs. I would rather have 4 but ran out of points. They are only in there because I hate sitting back and doing nothing, it is nice to get some twin-linked shots against transports early on. They are also pretty great when in combat, as they let you get many more models in the fight.
- Al'rahem is expensive but fun. Not sure if he is really worth splitting the force up.
- Dreadnoughts. I hate dreadnoughts. If they get into combat with the infantry then a significant part of my force just stops doing anything. Similar things happen against T7 stuff, such as C'Tan. I usually just prioritise them and try to keep my distance, or throw one of the squads at them if I need to take them out of the battle for a while.
Anyway, any advice?
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Post by krasimirova on Mar 14, 2012 5:05:43 GMT -5
Hi trick..
Wouldn't you say that you needed the Flamer PCS, there isn't really any other flamers in your list.. Sure you have Demolishers and Manticores, but they have their own targets to shoot at.. I'd stick with the flamer PCS, they are bound to do some wounds to whatever they lay that 3x template on..
I guess you if you really wanted the AC's on the infantry squads, the "best" place to get them would be the hull mounted ones on the demolishers because they are BS3 so are 50/50.. Putting heavy flamers on these instead wound help in their role as anti horde too.. And you do have plenty of S10 weaponry to tackle most tanks in the game between your demolishers and manticores..
Al'rahem: yep he is fun.. And adds some flavour to the list.. Is he competitive.. Nahh not really, but they list isn't crippled by having him in it.. Personally i'd say that with the large amount of troops allready in on the board in your second platoon, can handle being "on their own" for 1 or 2 rounds before he comes in.. And the fact that your opponent will have to keep 12" away from each flank will bunch them up a bit, and that is a good thing for your Manticores.. So all in all he does fit the list.. IMO:)
Dreadnaughts.. The bane of infantry lists.. Shoot them before they hit your lines.. <-- Sorry, thats the best that i've got on that one.. :/
Hope it helps a bit..
Kras...
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Post by renegadeguardsman on Mar 15, 2012 8:30:03 GMT -5
Sorry to butt in on this thread gents, but I'd like your opinions on this matter.
I've been thinking of doing a list like this, except with the Al-Rahem platoon mounted entirely in Chimerae and armed with plasma guns. My main force would be similar to the OP's, but I'm leaning more towards bassies or LRBT's than demolishers/ manticores. Not only would it be forcing the opponent to split his attention between the main force and the outflankers, but it would also add relatively mobile scoring units to a mostly foot list. Not to mention the Multi-Laser and plasma gunfire right up the Dreadnought's tail pipe... Anyways when I hammer out the list I'll post it in a new thread.
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 28, 2012 20:34:11 GMT -5
Alright, I've been trying different things with my list and have come up with this one:
CCS - LC, Vox, Astropath
Platoon A PCS - 3 x MG, Vox, Al'rahem Inf - PW, MG, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG Inf - PW, MG
Platoon B PCS - LC, Vox Inf - PW, MG, LC, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG, LC Inf - PW, MG, LC
Platoon C PCS - LC, Vox Inf - PW, MG, LC, Vox, Commissar w/ PW Inf - PW, MG, LC Inf - PW, MG, LC
Demolisher w/ LC Manticore Manticore
1750 points.
It seems to be working ok. The massed lascannons give the army a lot of the advantages of a gunline but it certainly keeps the power of a close combat guard army. Swapping to three 30 man platoons means that Al'rahem still packs a punch but only a third of my army is in reserve, not half.
When my hydras are built I will probably swap out the demolisher for a pair of hydras and a MoO for the CCS. I could swap out a manticore instead, if I feel that the AV14 is necessary. I'll see which I like the feel of more over the next few weeks.
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Post by egon on Mar 29, 2012 9:33:06 GMT -5
Drop the voxes and get a PCS with flamers in a chimera. I'd also advice against the LC+Melta combo, at least in Al'Rahem's platoon. Lascannons need to be stationary to be useful and meltas need to close in to be useful. Not a good combination. Also you'll be wasting all those lasguns firing at armour. If you want lascannons then Heavy Weapons Squads are the best way to go. Like it is now they won't be very effective. The platoon in reserve won't be shooting for at least two turns, which sucks.
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 29, 2012 10:04:40 GMT -5
I'm trying to avoid using chimeras, although I know that a flamer pcs can be very good. The chimeras would probably get shot quite quickly, whereas the foot LC ones are pretty much ignored and get cover from the blobs. The voxes are not great but for 35pts they make all of my orders pretty much impossible to fail. This has saved me many times, especially when Al'rahem outflanks behind some dreads. Without bring it down they would probably get tied up for the entire game in CC.
You must have misread Al'rahem's loadout, there are no LCs in there. He is only really used to get something into my opponent's board half and claim/contest some objectives, or kill long range firepower.
Now, the LC/MG combo is very odd. In fact, I thought it was going to be pretty rubbish too. However, it does give some very useful options. For the first few turns I can BiD/FomT very reliably against transports or tanks, whilst the lasguns are out of range. Once something gets within 12" the blob will run at it, fire melta and then charge. Having only the LC or the MG without the other means that my line is weak, either having no long range power or having to stand still, shoot and receive a charge. If I come up against a paladin list (which is heavily represented amongst my opponents) then I can stand still and fire 3LC/3MG, which with FomT can do a lot of damage.
I understand that it seems like a silly combo, but it does do a few things well. Not to mention that having the HWTs at the front of the blob makes it far easier to get all of it into CC. You can get a lot of men within 2" of those large bases when you charge/are charged.
As for lasguns, I rarely fire them to be honest. They either screw me with wound allocation (hate this so much...), are out of range or I would rather charge. About the only time I use them is within 12"-24", against soft targets like orks or standard 3+ marines.
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Post by egon on Mar 29, 2012 17:25:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I misread Al'Rahems platoon, makes a lot more sense.
I'm still a bit skeptic about the MC/MG combo but if it works out for you because of your metagame then I say go for it.
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 29, 2012 18:17:10 GMT -5
It is odd and really needs more testing. It probably isn't the best against horde but I'm hoping manticores and FrFSrF will be able to manage that. I'm pretty much the only horde player though, unless you count Blood Angel razorbacks as a horde...
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Post by krasimirova on Mar 30, 2012 2:16:13 GMT -5
How well does it work with only being able to target your infantry at 4 different targets pr round..? And do you rely on weight of fire when it comes to multiple MEQ targets..?
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 30, 2012 5:42:57 GMT -5
Well so far I have only faced GKs, so have not had a problem with multiple targets. It is something that may turn into a problem but I'll have to see. I think it is probably better guaranteeing the kill against one target than spreading the fire out. I am a bit worried about mass transports but we shall see after a few more games.
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Post by krasimirova on Mar 30, 2012 5:49:01 GMT -5
Ohh yeah, it is 100% true that focusing you fire is important..
I was thinking (as you mention) about mass transports (DE venom spam or BA Razor spam comes to mind), but I guess when you have dual Manticores, you might be able to get lucky with the D3 tempaltes and clumbed up AV-tinfoil transport..
Not so much CC on the list sadly, mostly just a random thought that sprang to mind..
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 30, 2012 5:57:39 GMT -5
I am going to add 2 hydras to the list when my forge world order arrives, as I want to use the nice models. This will at least add a bit more anti-transport capability. I just don't know whether to replace a demolisher or manticore. The manticore is a lot better at killing stuff, whereas the demolisher is much more durable. I'm a bit wary about only having four AV12 hulls in my army in three units, the demolisher gives me a shield that can absorb some fire.
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Post by krasimirova on Mar 30, 2012 6:22:16 GMT -5
Seening as you "only" have melta guns (and sometimes LC's if you don't move) to tackle 2+ armor saves, personally i'd stick with the Demolisher a bit longer..
But then again i don't know your local meta-game, so AP2 might not be needed in as large an extent as it is around here..
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 30, 2012 6:25:58 GMT -5
My local meta is GK paladin heavy, with a smattering of everything else. I think that the demolisher will stay as I love the model, the durability and the AP2.
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