500p. Combat Patrol List

Very solid list.

Not that I am the supreme Overlord of IG or anything, (well not yet anyways) but wont this list fare rather badly vs a space marine army or any MEQ armies for that matter?

I'm looking and im seeing a distinct lack of AP3 or better weapons.

Hmm, Interesting. I've only done the stats, which I know is a bad idea, but based on that I dont see these guys doing alot of damage vs Space marines.

3 Krak grenades. 1/2 chance to hit, 5/6 chance to wound, 1/3 chance of getting past save comes to 5/36. So the chance that one model will kill a space marine is 5/36. Times this by 3 and you get 15/36. So assuming the guard get two turns of shooting they are going to manage to kill one space marine?

Not wanting to labour the point, but for the sake of completion (EVERYTHING MUST BE COMPLETE!!!) The stats for the heavy bolter dont fare much better.
1/2 hit, 2/3 wound/ 1/3 past save come to 1/9. times 3 = 3/9. assuming it gets 3 turns of shooting this will kill 1 marine.

Excuse my ignorance but I cant see how this can do well against a space marine list? It would be great if you could explain a bit more, so that i can gather knowledge.

Cheers

P.S. I know Stat hammer is rubbish, but its all I've got to go on at the moment.

In addition to the above ramblings (I know, I have alot of spare time at the moment ;D ), I think I'd scrap all of the grenade launchers, the plasma pistol on the seargent and any other things I could spare, the extra armour on the chimera perhaps? And I would put it into buying more plasma guns! So I would have 2 units with 3 plasma guns each.

Then, I think what I would do is equip the troops in the chimera with flamethrowers for anti horde reasons (and also because I dont see a melta gun being useful at 500pts, but that depends on your max armour values)

Those 6 plasma guns would score 2-3 wounds per turn vs an MEQ trooper, so 2 turns of shooting would have a decent effect on a 10 man unit. Added to this, you have your heavy bolters and your autocannons, which would chip up a few more wounds, and your chimera full of flamers.

Then, your sentinel could be used to tar pit one unit, allowing you to shoot the hell out of the other one with all your plasma guns. And your chimera can secure objectives, or just whizz around flaming things.

There I'm happy with that now. Hope u kick some behindus.

I love playing CP with Guard, you have SO many choices and options I don't recognise all the restrictions (2 vehicles, no hyrdas?) but that shouldn't cause too many problems.

I have so many 500 point CP lists, I'll just post a few (I won a 400 point CP list with guard a year back, and that extra 100 points can really add some nice extras).

So. It is a tournament, so try not to be too focused on 1 or 2 opponents, you need to get a decent balanced list to be able to handle everything.

The good news, ACs will suffice for all your anti tank needs. Couple this with some nade launchers and a chimera or 2 if you have one, and that should be plenty.

Comments direct to your list:

If you are taking vets with plasma, I would want 3, and would drop the pistol to get it.
Extra armour is expensive. I wouldn't advise it in a chimera in large games, but would deffo drop it (you could buy that plasma gun with the savings).
Likewise doctrines are pricey, and IMO don't give enough for their points in small games.

Here are a few lists as examples:

PCS, 4 nade launchers, power fist, chimera (heavy flamer).
10 Guard
10 Guard, commissar with power weapon.

Vets, 3 nade launchers, Autocannon, chimera (heavy bolter)

Penal Legion
495

I only threw in the PL as there were spare points. I would probably add another 10 guard, and give all the sargents power weapons. Advance behind the PCS chimera, get assualted, and use the PCS to counter assault if needed. the vets stay put at the back, giving covering fire from teh top hatch of their chimera. Moving forwards T1 to nade range if needed, and still firing a fair amount.

PCS, Commissar, 2 flamers, medic, 2 power fists, chimera (heavy flamer)
10 IG, commissar, power weapon
10 IG
10 IG, autocannon
10 IG, autocannon

Scout sentinel, autocannon.

Not much to directly take down 3+ saves, but plenty of high strength weapons for removing armour/transports, plus your own transports put you in good stead. I use massed fire power to drop power armour, or get them in an assualt, and take them down through attrition, that is where the power weapons on the sarges make all the difference. You take the assualt with 20-30 guys, loose the combat most likely, but the power weapons tend to survive and you can counter assualt in with the PCS, etc..........

Plus pretty much everything scores

I have a couple more lists floating around, but gotta go, will post more later if needed.

"It's 2/3 to hit, Veterans have BS 4"


Lol, I said stat-hammer was evil! That'll teach me to meddle in the devils art.

Anyways, Im still not convinced about the grenade launchers , maybye its just a personal issue i have with them or myself or whatever. But I just dont see the weak small template as being much use? And if you go for a krak grenade then it hasnt got a high enough AP to snarf marines and necrons and such?

But to be fair, I can see that combined with the heavy bolters, las guns and what have you, that they are able to wrack up a nice few kills each turn. If it was me, I'd still go for the plasma option with the flame thrower chimera though, dropping a few bits and bobs to make up the points.

That said, your list does seem to be pretty solid, and If you have had success with it vs marines and you can handle it rather well then it would seem to make sense if you stuck with it. No point in changing something if it works ;D. Also if u dont have any more plasma minis, then there isnt alot of point in me telling you to put more in your list.

I find with things like cameo cloaks it is hard to justify whether to take them or not, stat-hammer wise, before a match. I think that thier usefulness is too dependant on deployment and terrain to be able to say whether to take them or not. Like you said, seeing as the model cap is 50 (which I think is a little unfair for guard players) it makes sense to beef up your units a bit so I'd stick with them if it were me.

Putting mortar units in your veteran squads with grenade launchers would be interesting, I prefer mortars over grenade launchers due to thier pinning, however, I'd probably take them in 3's. I think if you had one in a unit, the chance of it actually causing the enemy to fail a pinning test would be tiny. I think auto-cannons are much better, especially in small battles like this one, where you can use them vs light armour amongst other things.

To be fair, i dont think I would remove the sentinel either. If you were desperate for points, I might say remove the autocannon. But I think the sentinals use as a tar pit unit is well worth the points. The only thing I'd play about with on it would be the weapons choice. A heavy plasma cannon would be cool (omg he's on about the plasma again!!) but rather pricey, and I think it would cause too much fire to come in your walkers direction. I'd find the equipping of a heavy flamer as a tempting option. The only downside to this is that with giving your sentinel an autocannon, he can target light vehicles leaving your vets to target enemy infantry. If you take that away, then you vets will have to waste thier shots on the enemy armour, and the chance is the walker would get popped before it could get close enough to coat the enemy in sheets of flame. Interesting options to mull over though.

I can see extra armour on the chimera as useful. But for me the question is could something even more useful be bought for the points of it. If a large part of your strategy hinges on your chimera whizzing about destroying things (and it seems to), then it would be wise to beef it up to make sure it is able to do this role to the best of its ability. If on the other hand, you find yourself swapping your units about. For instance putting one of the grenade vet squads in the chimera, then you might find yourself ditching the extra armour and getting a plasma cannon for your walker, or something else like that. A heavy weapon for your plasma vet squad perhaps...

Stratigo and army lists aside, are you planning on posting up any battle reports? I would be eager to read how this small force performs, and how you use it.

That list only has the problem that new BA causes some need for at least some plasma shots for those FnP assault marines, fists don't count for they will utterly kill your squad with furious charge far before fists get to hit.

I will be facing some BA, its popular around here so here's you some math

10-man assault squad is shot by lasguns. You hit on 4+, so it's 20 now. You wound on 5+ so its 60 now. They pass armour save on 3+ so we're at 180 shots. then they got the Feel No Pain and the grand tota lof required lasguns is 360 shots per 10 marines. And they WILL assault on at turn 3, if not turn 2. Ofcourse the autocannons have slightly better outcome with wounding on 2+, but even then 3+ and Feel No Pain will keep them coming.

It's impossible to mass THAT much firepower, so some tougher guns are very necessary versus Blood Angels. The terrifying list has 2x10 assault marines and a Sanguinary priest with jump pack.
Ofcourse the FnP Devastators with some Razorback-assault marines is a hell as well.

Heavy Flamer on a chimera would be good, but I have assemblied mine with heavy Bolter.

And additional Veteran Squad in place of the Sentinel could be considered, if I dropped some points from elsewhere too, but I think the sentinel-tarpit is rather good.

Assault marines are troops for Blood angels. Priest isn't HQ its elite. And the prist provides Feel No Pain and Furious Charge to all units within 6" ANd it fits into 500 even with some added toys:

Sanguinary Priest @ 75p.
-Jump Pack

10 Assault Marines @ 205p.
-2 Flamers, Melta Bombs

10 Assault Marines @ 220p.
-Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Meltagun

Here they are, 21 FnP Furious Charge Marines who advance 12" + D6" per turn. Neat. The Melta Bobms could also be changed to the second mentagun to the melta-squad.

silliarie my 400 point cp list was this.

PCS, 4 nade launchers, Chimera (multi lazer, heavy flamer)
20 Guardsmen, Commissar, power weapon
Veterans, 3 nade launchers, AC, Chimera (milti lazer, heavy bolter)
400 on the nose. Tabled 3 out of 4 opponents, but took about 3 months of revising to get the most bang for buck, I couldn't see much else I could add to it tbh.

I'm only recently starting to try out the uber expensive PCSs, with commissars, medics and double power fist. So far the extra power fists seem worth while (but cost the price of 2 PCSs), the medic has not shined to date tbh and is also very expensive, so poss worth dropping...... but adds some survivbility tho, and makes it a 'fun' unit to use (plus model, your PCS looks very pretty!.

TBH I have not played the new BA codex, and that sort of list would be tough, but not unbeatable, even with no AP3 or lower. I don't know the full rules for the preist either, whether they are independent characters or can even join units (seems they are not unit upgrades, so should be targetable one way or the other), but in such a small list, killing them off as soon as possible will give you a huge advantage. In that sort of list, there aren't any power weapons either (not that u need them so much v guard but anyway, the PCS with medic would be signififcantly more survivable).

Reg extra armour, if it works for you then deffo keep it, but I'm still not sure exactly what a shacken chimera is going to be able to do that a stunned one cannot, except disembark the troops some where if the hatch is blocked up....... they still can't shoot from the hatch as affected by the shaken result. Sure you will get hit automatically in CC, which is a pain, but I'd prefer to loose a transport and have some one attack that than more valuable troops. But if it works for you, then go for it. Cloaks might even the odds, but it won't make them marines, and 1 flamer later, and the unit is still toast...... but it will add some survivability, I would prob try it out on one unit and see what it really adds.

If I were against the uber 21 man list as above, using my single platoon list plus scout sentinel list, I would still feel fairly confident, altho depending on exactly how the preist works, the tactics would vary.

First up, if you are trying to take on a unit of assualt marines with a PCS, you can not fight fair. This is not a unit v unit affair, you have to fight dirty, or yes, those expensive power fists will never fight back. How do you do that? Tarpit a unit, and counter assualt next turn. This list has 2 prime units for this, a blob (and against the BAs, I'd either blob up in 2 units, or even blob up in 1 uber 41 man unit, depending on who is going first) and the scout sentinel.

The blob should survive, a bit mauled but still standing from an assualt from 1 squad even if they do get the charge (if both assualt then they will probably fold). With the commi, a rerollable stubborn on high Ld, they shouldn't run, and your PCS disembarks the following turn, and counter charges, while being untargetable that turn. That is how to get power fist attacks from a small, fragile squad. If you lose the combat again..... well you are back on rerollable stubborn Ld checks on both units. It can be done, I use this technique often.

A spot of math

10 assualt marines, on the charge is 31 attacks?, 20ish hit, 14 wound, so about 8-9 guardsmen die, this is pretty useful as it clears an area for your PCS to counter assualt in to next turn.

Even if both assualt squads do make it to CC with the same unit, I'd be reasonable confident of holding them in place even if only the commissar survives (with his power weapon) to be hit by the power fists next turn. In many ways the less models left in the blob the better, as they can not split their attacks next turn, so if you only have 1-2 guys left, that is the max number they can kill........ so you might even win and force a couple more saves through no retreat.

EDIT I didn't factor in FC lol, so 1 unit assualting would do more damage, but still not enough to wipe them out, if both units hit a 20 man blob, then forget about it.

Taking out the preist is certainly key to an easier victory, so will post a bit more when I've checked the rules for them.

But basic tactics would be, either blob up to a huge unit, shoot as long as you can, and then take the assualt, and counter with the PCS.

Split up to 2 20 man units, and deploy them about 18-24 inches apart, with the chimera in the middle, and force them to choose which to attack first, while the other shoots them up as they cross the field, or force them to split up their units and loos FNP on one of them (or more if they decide to combat squad).

OR, just go straight out side the box, let them have first turn, and jump 12" forwards, and run........ advance your 20 man CC blob with commi while the AC shoot up a unit, then charge them, rob them of their attacks, and FC bonus, take huge caualties, but get your Commi in to base to base with their preist, and cross your fingers you get 1 wound thru. Then coutner assualt next turn with the PCS if anything is left, there may well not be..........

Anyway, will check up the rules on preist, and amend/expand on this later.

Just a quick reply, I really need to get on with things!

Am loving your strategies fatuous!

I forgot about the stubborn ability the commissar has, that would indeed enable your super blob to be able to easily surive the first turn of H2H vs the assault squads, then the idea of counter charging in the next turn with the 2 powerfist wielding PCS is brilliant. Love it.

Anyways, u have a good day too. And a good weekend if im not about.

Just checked the codex. So the preist is an IC...... so forget trying to shoot him off the table, that'll take all year

Get a power weapon in CC with him, and assign any one that is engaged with the preist to attack him in the first round. If you are charged, well not all that optimistic on being able to take him down in 1 turn of CC. IF you can get the commi and both sarges in engaged, 3 attacks each, 4-5 hits are reasonable, you might force 1 or 2 saves, if one is the commi, great, otherwise, odds are he is just gonna shrug those off.

If you can get the assualt, odds are significantly better. 2 hits from the commi, you'd need a 5+ on 2 dice, so by no means a deffo kill, but not terrible either..........

If they are going to be bunched up within 6" maybe Plasma cannon armed Sentinels would cause them pain?

Gonna match Blood Angels during weekend, not the terrifying list though I think, not sure

Heavy bolters are fine, barely able to threat light vehicles and wound mos enemies on at least 4+. I think its rather equal with AC in this game size, in larger games I'd prefer AC's. Another thing is once again my limited models, metal valhallans are expensive.

Adding one veteran squad is one thing I've also considered, by losing the camo-cloaks and some weaponry, but I haven't really made up any role for except the flamer-bunch, which is terribly bad against some armies, lacking any capability to change the way to use them. Gotta test it. Possibly if I took them a Mortar too, they could just hang somewhere out of the harm's way and come to counter closing troops with their flamers. Hmm. Not sure, as I said, gotta think & test.