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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2009 6:09:08 GMT -5
Imperial Guard 1500p Army
Company Command Squad w/ Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken + Medi-Pack + 2 Bodyguards + Carapace Armour
Storm Trooper Squad w/ Power Weapon + Meltagun
Platoon Command Squad w/ Plasma Pistol + Power Weapon
Infantry Squad w/ commissar power weapon + Grenade Launcher + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad w/ Grenade Launcher + Heavy Bolter
Platoon Command Squad w/ Plasma Pistol + Power Weapon
Infantry Squad w/ commissar power weapon + Grenade Launcher + Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad w/ Grenade Launcher + Heavy Bolter
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 lascannons
Rough Rider Squadron
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Lascannon + Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Grand Total 1500 Points
My overall strategy for this army is a gunline I will try to keep Straken and his squad out of enemy line of sight and issue orders then charge out when they get close. My commissars should keep my men in line and the leman russes have never let me down. My lascannon team will try to target enemy armour but from experience they are always a big target and die quickly. I will most likely combie my squads into 20 men ones so there is a commisar in each. The Stormtroopers are a bit of a point filler and im thinking of replacing them with some outflanking sentinels.
Critisism please
Armies I play against often : Ork lots of trukks 3x, Tyranid Swarm, Tyranid stompy death, space marine all rounder force 5x, and a dark angels ravenwing
Thanks comments and critisism please
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 27, 2009 18:37:00 GMT -5
welli would say drop the stormtroopers for another infantry squad will grenade launcher and heavybolter.
If you are using Iron hand Straken as a counter charge unit. Why do you have rough riders, Iron hands counter charge speical rule on every unit 12 inch away from him make up for the loss of rough riders.
I suggest get rid of the rough riders for more infantry squads.
drop the plasma sponsors on the demolisher and put them on a russ tank. (so if the demolisher is destroyed you still have AP2 blast weapons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2009 3:03:36 GMT -5
If I drop the rough riders, storm trooper and a plasma pistol from one of my platoon command squads I can get 2 infantry squads with heavy bolters and grenade launchers and a commissar with a power weapon. Thats a good point about the leman russ but should i also put the lascannon on the russ that has the plasma cannons? I also have a vanquisher which i could replace one of my russes with if you think my army lacking anti tank. Thanks
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 28, 2009 4:54:54 GMT -5
Well the russ with the plasma cannons should have a lascannon can kill tanks and helps with those 2+ armour troops.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 28, 2009 5:16:25 GMT -5
you should also put plasma cannons and hull lascannon on the other russ as well.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2009 0:29:38 GMT -5
Russes are not designed to kill tanks. They are designed to kill heavy infantry tough infantry in huge amounts, like wiping out an entire Tack Squad in one shot. If you want to kill tanks, save the points and get a Vanquisher with a Hull Lascannon. You can even stick Cammo Netting on it and still have it be 5pts less then the Plasma Russes. The Demolisher can handle any 2+ units if it needs to. The Rough Riders can help with that, because of their hunting lances.
Envoy and I will work on re-vamping the list. It should be up within an hour.
Reds
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2009 0:30:56 GMT -5
Alright ill try it out do you know a good place to get plasma cannon sponsons? cause i only have the ones i got with the demolisher.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 29, 2009 1:00:01 GMT -5
Alright, so here's a bit of a revamp, but still keeping within your gunline theme.
HQ:
CCS- 190pts.
Straken, 3x Flamer, Medic
Troops:
Platoon 1- 545pts.
PCS- 105pts.
3x Plasma, Medic
Inf. Squad- 65pts.
Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Inf. Squad- 65pts.
Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Inf. Squad- 65pts.
Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Inf. Squad- 65pts.
Grenade Launcher, Heavy Bolter
Lascannon Team- 105pts.
Autocannon Team- 75pts.
Vet Squad- 130pts.
'Pace, 3x Melta, Shotguns
Fast Attack:
10 Rough Riders- 105pts.
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Vanquisher- 190pts.
Hull Lascannon, Camo Netting
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank- 170pts.
Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters
Leman Russ Main Battle Tank- 170pts.
Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters
There you have it. With the armies you're fighting, being able to counter charge with a few hard hitting units is imperative. The Rough Riders will be able to slap around anything they charge (unless they suffer from rubber lance syndrome). Straken, well...he's Straken. Use the Flamers to burn off some enemy troops, then clean up in assault. The vets are going to act as a clean up unit. Keep them near to Straken, and then use the same tactics with them as with Straken's PCS. You can even use them to pop heavy armor if need be.
The Platoon itself should not stop firing. Ever. Designate targets for each squad and just unload into them until they're dead. The LC's and AC's are there to provide some extra punch against vehicles. Your PCS is there to vaporize things like Mega Nobz or Termies without mercy.
Those Battlecannons should be pounding away at anything that looks at you funny (basically anything your opponent puts on the table). And of course, the Vanq should be fired at the highest priority vehicle threat.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2009 3:38:06 GMT -5
Thanks that army list looks good I just need to convert some more rough riders and order some plasmas and meltaguns. Also whats a good way to get shotguns for the vets?
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 29, 2009 3:38:45 GMT -5
RedsandRoyals the standard leman russ is a all purpose tank designed to kill tanks and infantry. It does kill infantry better but can kill most tanks easily as well. But its not to good at kill A14 vehicles.
Personal I dont like the leman russ Vanquisher.
and read the fluff for the standard russ as well it supports my point here. The battle cannon is the most common armament of the leman russ. The explosive rounds of a battle cannon decimate enemy infantry and tanks with equal contempt.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2009 10:07:06 GMT -5
Not talking about fluff here, Jarms, we're talking about table top effectiveness, and the Russ is really best at killing infantry. That pie plate can take out whole infantry squads. Besides, Plasma Sponsons (which are horribly expensive and still using BS 3) are only Str 7, which is bad for killing most medium or heavy vehicles. Multimelta Sponsons would make more sense if you wanted to kill tanks, but it cripples the range.
If you want to kill tanks, take Vanqs and Lascannons. just because you don't like the Vaq doesn't mean it's not the best AT weapon we have (It's also cheaper then the load out you suggest).
Reds
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 29, 2009 22:31:55 GMT -5
RedsandRoyals the Vanquisher is only good at killing tanks while a standard russ tank can kill infantry and take out most tanks easily.
The reason i dont like the vanquisher is because its lack of AI it cant kill infantry at all. While the standard russ tank with a hull lascannon and battlecannon. Is devistating to infantry and tanks a like its also 5 points cheaper than a vanquisher with a hull lascannon and its vanquisher cannon.
Me I always field my russ tanks with hull las and battlecannons. It saves points and i can now fire all weapons on the move.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2009 22:48:24 GMT -5
That's a good point about the Vanquisher's lack of Anti Infantry, but is assumes that you have absolutely no other units available from the IG codex that can kill infantry. Infantry Squads are designed to fight enemy infantry, so why not have them do it, and have the Vanq work AT? That way you can kill Enemy tanks and infantry in the same turn of shooting, instead of having to pick one. Also, the Russ will struggle against AV 14, relying on a single lascannon. Lascannons will get a penetrating hit 1/6th of the time against AV14. A Vanq Cannon will punch through AV 14 just over 1/2 the time.
Besides, why multi role when you can afford to put a good AI unit and a good AT unit in the same list? The fact that you can target Infantry and Armour in the same turn to punishing effect more then makes up for it.
He still has the infantry killing power he needs (Two Russes w/ 3 HBs and a Battle Cannon) and can have a Vanq too. There is absolutely no need to make the Russ less effective at killing infantry by turning it into a poor excuse for a tank hunter.
Also, its only 5pts more to have a Vanq with a lascannon. It's not like it's a huge amount of points saved (Like the points you would save by taking a Vanq instead of a Russ with plasma sponsons.)
Reds
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 29, 2009 23:03:34 GMT -5
Multi-role units do not excel in IG lists. They can do alright generally, but as a whole, they tend to fall flat on their face.
Sure you roll 2d6 pick the highest for Armor Penetration with a Battlecannon, but you can still scatter off target. And also, why only take one die worth of additions when you can have a weapon that both doesn't scatter, and adds both dice to the AP roll?
IG units, tanks especially, are generally best when equipped for a single role, and equipped with the cheapest weapon sets that will maximize their potential. A Russ with 3 Heavy Bolters and a Battlecannon pumps out 9 mid strength shots, and a high strength template. While with the plasma sponsons, it's no longer as effective for killing infantry, though still a good MEQ hunter, because you still scatter.
As for Vanqs, they are probably one of the best dedicated AT weapons in the game at the moment. With a high strength turret weapon and 2d6 AP, very very little will get past it. The closest you can come to a tank hunter anywhere near as capable is a Demolisher with Multi-Melta's, Hull Lascannon. But that thing is both very expensive, and very short ranged. Vanq's also tend to have a higher survivability, since they don't need to move to be effective, you can plop them in cover with a hull las and camo and snipe away at tanks like it's nobody's business. People know what a Demolisher can do to their vehicles and infantry, and will point ever AT weapon at it imaginable.
I would gladly pay the five points for a dedicated AT platform that not only does its job, but excels at it.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2009 23:24:57 GMT -5
Look at it this way.
Would you take an HW section consisting of a Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, and Mortar? No, because, while it can do everything HW teams are supposed to do, it's terrible at all of them. You can also afford to take s Mortar Section and a Lascannon section anyway, and put HBs in with the troops, so there's not even a point to taking the multi-role HW section.
It's the same deal with Russes. You can afford to have very good AT and AI tanks in the list, so why even take a multi-role one that will be less effective?
Reds
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2009 23:57:37 GMT -5
I just tried out the list that envoy made (representing some things) against my friends space marines. The vanquisher killed a land raider crusader and a predator, the battle cannons killed most of his marines, the autocannons and lascannon teams killed all his rhinos and the plasma guns killed the termies that fell out of the landraider, Straken and the rough riders killed his company commander and a lot of space marines.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 30, 2009 0:07:59 GMT -5
Hey now, credit where credit is due. Envoy and I put that together over AIM.  Anyway, glad it worked. Was there anything you would swap out, drop, or tweak? Reds |
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 30, 2009 0:30:41 GMT -5
Hey now, credit where credit is due. Envoy and I put that together over AIM. Anyway, glad it worked. Was there anything you would swap out, drop, or tweak? Reds Thought I credited you in my original post...whoops...I'll fix that issue. Also, it is good to hear that it worked out for you. I'm curious as to what you thought about the list overall. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2009 0:44:13 GMT -5
Im pretty happy with how the list went I might try pask in the vanquisher but ill play a few more games and see how it goes. Overall I seemed to be able to counter everything that was put on the and thanks RedsandRoyals aswell.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 30, 2009 0:47:33 GMT -5
Glad to hear it. Pask is fun, but only if you can spare the points.
Reds
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 30, 2009 0:51:12 GMT -5
A Paskquisher is usually a pretty good investment, and will make most Tank armies cry in fear.
But like Reds said, he's best put in a list if you can spare the points.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 30, 2009 1:35:21 GMT -5
the vanquisher has serveral done sides it sucks against infantry and if its main gun misses, the AT is only up to the lascannon.
If its a russ and it misses it could hit something else. Or if it only scatters 4 or 5 inch you will still hit the tank because you take off the BS of your tank so it only will scatter 1 or 2 inch and that will still be on the hull of most vehicles and a battlecannon can kill most vehicles easily exept for armour 14 vehicles. But the hull lascannon can do that.
And with the lascannon, mortar, heavy bolter combo how would do that. But I have heared of 2 missile launchers and 1 lascannon combo.
Yes I agree that a vanquisher can kill armour a lot better than a normal russ. But a russ can kill most vehicles as well. But when it comes to infantry a vanquisher cant handle it self. But a russ can.
But a normal russ tank can take on both roles adding a hull lascannon increases its AT ability.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 30, 2009 1:48:34 GMT -5
Oh, I'm not debating the point that the Vanq can't kill infantry well. I'm saying that you can take a Russ with HB sponsons AND a Vanq in the same list, easily, so why even consider using a multi-role?
I mean, yes, if you could only take a single Russ, then kitting it out with a Hull Las might be a good idea. But that's simply not the case. Why take two multi Roles when you can have a Vanq and a an AI Russ? They each to their job a LOT better then a multi-role would, and you'd still have one Russ firing at tanks and the other at Infantry. The only difference is that they're doing it better, and for less then a Plasma Russ.
SmallRabbit's result with the Vanq and the Russ illustrate my point exactly. His LRMBT slaughtered MEQs, while his Vanq blew apart a Land Raider and a Predator. Thus, specialization allowed him to inflict casualties much more effectively then a Multi Role Russ could have.
So, yes, you're right. If you had to Multi Role a Russ, the basic MBT is the best choice.
But my point is that you do not have to multi-role, and there is no reason to, so why bother when specializing your tanks is so much more effective?
Reds
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2009 17:34:14 GMT -5
that rule is true of almost all 40k armies, specialized troops out perform multirole troops. in every army i play, gaurd, nids and crons, every peice has to have a specific role. if it doesnt have something specific to dom odds are it does nothing well and in general will fail at what i need done.
paskquisher, eats tanks, spilling forth juicy targets. lrbt then unleashes a pie plate and 9 shots of hot death on them. usually that alone makes back the points for the 2 of them, you have 4-6 round to go.
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