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Post by Trickstick on Sept 12, 2011 7:18:10 GMT -5
So, when I met Chem this weekend he mentioned the idea of Guard bikers. Now, I am not a fan of using bikers to represent rough riders but the thought of actual Guard bikers seems good to me. So, I thought I would make this thread to throw some ideas around.
My initial thoughts are something like 3+ bikers to a unit, armed with twin lasguns. Also, you could get an attack bike for the unit but it can only be armed with special weapons, such as a meltagun or flamer. It keeps the unit a bit lighter than marine bikers and makes it so you can't take heavy weapons but can still pack a punch.
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Post by BG. Foster on Sept 12, 2011 7:49:10 GMT -5
i like the idea, would see them as some sort of outriders supporting tanks or a convoy
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Post by marbo on Sept 12, 2011 8:16:35 GMT -5
whydont you actully make a stat line and rules for them personaly i like the idea
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 12, 2011 8:44:31 GMT -5
| WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | LD | Armour Save | Points |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Biker[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][td] [/td][/tr] [tr][td]Biker Sergeant[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]8[/td] [td]5+[/td][td] [/td][/tr] [tr][td]Attack Biker[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][td] [/td][/tr][/table] Unit consists of 3-(10?) bikers. All bikes get TL lasguns. May form two bikers into a attack bike with special weapon (flamer/melta/plasma/grenade) for the usual costs. Can take one attack bike for every five bikers (so two with 10 men). Sarge can take meltabombs. Some things yet to decide are: -Points costs. Probably base them around the scout biker levels, although they will get a bit of a discount as they are Guard. -Special rules. Scouts may be a bit evil if they can take it. -Extra equipment. Carapace would seem a good choice but could make the unit far too hard and simply make them better scout bikers. Well, that is a basis for what I was thinking. Need a bit of help to flesh them out. I really don't want to make them too powerful, as that is all too common when making your own rules.
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Post by Gerner on Sept 12, 2011 12:18:59 GMT -5
I'm planning on making bikes to my army, they will be converted SM scout bikes. My plan is to rule them as Scout Sentinels. Only problem is that their size is smaller than normal sentinels. Thinking about making rules for them as well, but that is in the far future.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 12, 2011 13:35:54 GMT -5
Nice and basic rules! Made similar things myself at several occasions. Only thing I dislike is the twin-linked lasguns, I think Guardsmen have a better feel to them on lighter military patrol/terrain bikes rather than the bulky SM assault bikes.
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 12, 2011 14:17:39 GMT -5
Yeah: it's in Makarova's Cherno Codex, which is in the .. general IG board (?) I prefered the specials on a normal bike, but maybe we can have an attack bike with a heavy stubber. The guardmen themselves could have laspistols and the bikes nothing. Points? Maybe 15-18 per normal biker (?) One of mine, although I've given him a headswap. Prizes for guessing which head..
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Post by Gerner on Sept 12, 2011 16:40:10 GMT -5
One of mine, although I've given him a headswap. Prizes for guessing which head.. Marauder Horsemen Head.
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 12, 2011 17:34:48 GMT -5
Laspistols would make more sense. Maybe frag and krak as standard, which would turn them into more of a harassment unit. I can't decide if scouts would make them too powerful though.
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 12, 2011 18:40:43 GMT -5
Turbo boosting is enough.
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 15, 2011 18:47:38 GMT -5
Ok, so another instalment on the road to bikers. The costs may need tweaking. Guard Bike Squad - 55 points - Fast Attack[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Guard Biker[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Guard Biker Sergeant[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]8[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Attack Bike[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr][/table] Unit Composition - 1 sergeant and 5 bikers Unit Type - Bike Wargear - Flak Armour, Laspistol (replace with shotgun?), Frag and Krak Grenades, Imperial Guard Bike. Special Rules - Mavericks: Bike squads cannot receive orders. Options May include up to five additional Guard Bikers - 10 points per model The Guard Biker Sergeant may exchange his laspistol for: - Power Weapon - 10 Points - Plasma Pistol - 10 Points The Guard Biker Sergeant may take meltabombs - 5 points Up to two Guard Bikers may replace their laspistol with one of the following: - Flamer or Grenade Launcher - 5 points - Meltagun - 10 points - Plasma gun - 15 points If the squad numbers ten models, you may replace two Guard Bikers with an Attack Bike armed with one of the following: - Heavy Stubber - 10 Points - Twin-Linked Flamer or Grenade Launcher - 10 points - Twin-Linked Meltagun - 20 points - Twin-Linked Plasma gun - 30 points The entire squad may replace its Flak Armour with Carapace Armour - 30 points --- So, there is my first real draft. A few things that I am uncertain of. The stubber seemed lonely so I added the twin-linked guns. I'm thinking that they may be a bit much though. Other than that, I was thinking of possibly bumpind bikers up to 12 each and/or giving them shotguns instead of pistols. I thought I would go for pistols as they seem that they would be easier to use on a bike.
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Post by emptyhat on Sept 15, 2011 18:52:57 GMT -5
How does a twin-linked flamer work?
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 15, 2011 18:57:17 GMT -5
You reroll to wound.
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Post by emptyhat on Sept 15, 2011 19:01:29 GMT -5
Ah, I see.
I think shotguns for the bikes would be a nice Terminator 2 reference.
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 15, 2011 19:18:02 GMT -5
I would give them a "Exchange for free" option, but then there would be no reason to take pistols. I'm not going to give them pistol and ccw, that would just be stupid.
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Post by emptyhat on Sept 15, 2011 19:41:26 GMT -5
Maybe the Sgt can have it and in a crazy role reversal he is the squad member that gets two shots.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2011 2:37:02 GMT -5
I really like the profiles, great job! No unecessary or fancy special rules, and you're keeping them like basic guardsmen on bikes (few people do that!). Twin-linked special weapons are a bit odd, but they work well enough. Realistically there's no way you could use a special weapon on a bike though, so they'd likely be used by side passengers. So another option is to make the attack bikers the "standard" special weapon carriers, without the extra wound (if a bike gets hit, a side cart isn't gonna save you).
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Post by emptyhat on Sept 16, 2011 7:56:31 GMT -5
But as with the heavy weapon teams it is only going to take a St6 hit to instant death them so the 2nd wound isn't that out of place.
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 16, 2011 8:16:01 GMT -5
Guard Bike Squad - 55 points - Fast Attack[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Guard Biker[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Guard Biker Sergeant[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]8[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Attack Bike[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr][/table] Unit Composition - 1 sergeant and 5 bikers Unit Type - Bike Wargear - Flak Armour, Laspistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Imperial Guard Bike. Special Rules - Mavericks: Bike squads cannot receive orders. Options May include up to five additional Guard Bikers - 10 points per model The Guard Biker Sergeant may exchange his laspistol for: - Power Weapon - 10 Points - Plasma Pistol - 10 Points The Guard Biker Sergeant may take meltabombs - 5 points You may replace two Guard Bikers with an Attack Bike armed with one of the following - Flamer or Grenade Launcher - 5 points - Heavy Stubber - 10 Points - Meltagun - 10 points - Plasma gun - 15 points If the squad numbers ten models, you may replace another two Guard Bikers with an Attack Bike armed with one of the following: - Flamer or Grenade Launcher - 5 points - Heavy Stubber - 10 Points - Meltagun - 10 points - Plasma gun - 15 points The entire squad may replace its Flak Armour with Carapace Armour - 30 points ------- I think you were right about the weapons Makarova. Guard are not space marines, they would probably find it hard to use a grenade launcher one handed. I'm not sure about giving an attack bike only one wound.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2011 8:46:16 GMT -5
They work well as they are, if you want to make it appear more seamless 2 wounds on the attack bikes is a positive thing as it ties in with the Marine approach. Other things you might wanna add. 1 pt to take a shotgun. 1 sergeant, 4 bikers to tie in with codex coherency. 2 special weapons regardless of size, again for codex coherency. Bolt pistol for the sergeant. I love heavy stubbers, but they don't stick to the codex coherency. Doesn't matter much though, as far as I'm concerned they should've been a part of it to start with.
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Post by emptyhat on Sept 16, 2011 8:52:44 GMT -5
Right now can you get carapace for 30 points whether you have the 6 bike squad or the 11 bike squad?
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2011 9:04:13 GMT -5
Actually, you might want to make it a bulk add of 5 guardsmen for 50 points to tie in with codex coherency.
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 16, 2011 11:01:14 GMT -5
Alright, another draft it is: Guard Bike Squad - 55 points - Fast Attack[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Guard Biker[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Guard Biker Sergeant[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]8[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Attack Bike[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3(4)[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td] [td]5+[/td][/tr][/table] Unit Composition - 1 sergeant and 4 bikers Unit Type - Bike Wargear - Flak Armour, Laspistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Imperial Guard Bike. Special Rules - Mavericks: Bike squads cannot receive orders. Options May include up to five additional Guard Bikers - 10 points per model The Guard Biker Sergeant may exchange his laspistol for: - Power Weapon - 10 Points - Plasma Pistol - 10 Points - Bolt Pistol - 1 Point The Guard Biker Sergeant may take meltabombs - 5 points You may replace two Guard Bikers with an Attack Bike armed with one of the following - Flamer or Grenade Launcher - 5 points - Heavy Stubber - 10 Points - Meltagun - 10 points - Plasma gun - 15 points If the squad numbers ten models, you may replace another two Guard Bikers with an Attack Bike armed with one of the following: - Flamer or Grenade Launcher - 5 points - Heavy Stubber - 10 Points - Meltagun - 10 points - Plasma gun - 15 points The entire squad may replace its Flak Armour with Carapace Armour - 3 points per model Any member may replace their laspistol with a shotgun - 1 point per model --- Alright, a few fixes: -I did mean to put 1 Sarge and 4 bikers, it was a typo. -Changed the cost of carapace, it didn't make any sense when I thought about it. -Added shotguns, although I imagine that they should be sawn off to be useable. -Added a bolt pistol, even though I don't like them I suppose it should be in. -I'm going to leave the squad size requirement for the second weapon. I considered it but thought that five bikers with specials would be unfair. - I don't think that any units in the Guard codex have bulk member additions, they all seem to be individual.
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 16, 2011 11:25:08 GMT -5
Excellent! Just modified my list and I gain 6 bikers(but 4 become attack bikes), and lose 2 flamers.
So I'm having 2 squads of 6 bikers and one attack bike with a flamer and sgts have melta bombs :@190 points...
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Post by Trickstick on Sept 16, 2011 11:31:09 GMT -5
How do you find the points?
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