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Post by yvain on Feb 9, 2013 11:39:18 GMT -5
I have used Harker in every game I have played. And it has always worked out great. Infiltrating or outflanking, it always seems to give me a little bit of an edge because of the flexibility it adds.
I usually pick, 3 Plasma guns and forward sentries. This gives me a 5+ cover save and if I move a hill or tree line, I can end up with a 2+ or 3+ respectively. I think people look at him and thing, its just a measly guard squad of ten. Once you get him in place he is hard to dislodge. Then suddenly they realize 3-6 plasma shots and 3 heavy bolter shots are tearing their flanks apart. I am always fearful of a charge, but this has literally never happened. Its amusing, but most people seem to ignore or try to take a few pot shots him thinking it isn't that much of a threat.
The two problems are the price and that there is no protection from overheats. The price is negated to me because he costs as much as a chimera and brings in mobility and defense if used right. However, once you rapid fire, there is bound to be a 1.
I wonder about switching to 3 meltas, but I worry about the range I will lose and then in addition how much easier it will be to negate the cover and charge me.
I am also tempted to even add in a lascannon, but I worry about putting all my eggs in one basket.
Does anyone else field him? If so how?
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Post by hendrik on Feb 9, 2013 16:16:08 GMT -5
i tried him recently but unfortunatly we had to stop our game before i could really put him to use. I'm not sure i would field him with meltaguns, since these will want to get near to the armour of the opponent to cripple it. with the 3 X plasma and 3+ cover safe you've got a hard to remove (or atleast harder) unit that will be a problem for your opponent if not handled properly.
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Post by treadiculous on Feb 9, 2013 19:17:23 GMT -5
I've used Harker once in a dense city fight game and teamed him with a second Heavy Bolter, I can't remember for sure what I gave the rest of the squad, probably sniper rifles. This kept the unit cheap, and had a clear anti-infantry role.
I infiltrated him high up in a ruin and his squad became a pillbox that rained death into the streets below.
He was hard to shift and due to being on 3rd floor was well out of charge range for ages.
Personally I wouldn't use melta with Harker, there are other ways to get melta close to the enemy, if outflanking I'd stick with your plasma.
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Sgt. Rock
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Post by Sgt. Rock on Feb 12, 2013 20:32:37 GMT -5
I'd be inclined to agree with Tread. Take another HB or an AC, load up on Sniper Rifles, and shoot the snot out of anything that doesn't have an AV. Line infantry will eat a lot of hurt, the sniper rifles and AC can engage monstrous creatures, and while it may not happen often, the rending shots from the sniper rifles can be useful against things like Terminators. Also, consider that you've got six shots that can be potentially Precision Shots... three from the rifles and three from Harker. That presents a serious potential threat to squad leaders and ICs.
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Post by WestRider on Feb 12, 2013 20:55:00 GMT -5
In 5th, I always thought Grenade Launchers were the way to go. Keep the Squad Mobile, while still spitting out firepower at a distance that makes Charging you a significant investment.
In 6th, Plasmaguns can now maintain that same 24" Range on the Move, which was the main argument against using them back then. So Harker+3 Plasmaguns has some serious appeal to me now.
I can sort of see the argument for another Heavy Bolter and Sniper Rifles, but these guys have the potential to be one of our best mobile harassment Units, and so a static setup doesn't really appeal to me.
Meltas and Flamers, just say no. Those make you get way too close, and this Squad really can't stand up to determined short-ranged firepower or an Assault. Flamers waste your BS4, too.
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Sgt. Rock
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Loungin' like a lizard.
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Post by Sgt. Rock on Feb 12, 2013 22:46:40 GMT -5
Mobility is a good point, with Harker being Relentless and all. In that case, I'd be inclined to ditch the Forward Sentries doctrine and either pick up Grenadiers or spend the points elsewhere. A 4+ save might be good for holding off those dreaded overheats, but at the same time, you just as easily find a home for those points by putting them towards another infantry squad or something.
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Post by WestRider on Feb 13, 2013 0:16:39 GMT -5
Unfortunately, you can't take Grenadiers with Harker. It's one of his specific restrictions.
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Sgt. Rock
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Loungin' like a lizard.
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Post by Sgt. Rock on Feb 13, 2013 5:19:40 GMT -5
Crap in a basket, you're right. Well that sucks.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Feb 13, 2013 10:53:52 GMT -5
One point in favor of giving Harker's squad Forward Sentinels is that they always have a 5+ cover save in the open. This makes them extremely difficult to get rid of.
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Post by The Hawk! on Feb 13, 2013 11:02:41 GMT -5
As Julian said, that 5+ cover save is bloody brilliant! It is un theory just as good as FNP, unless the weapon used ignores cover.... But get yourself into some nice heavy cover, and then you'll kick some .... I haven't used Guard yet this ed But last ed I was fond of running Harker, 3 GL's and a ML in a squad ov veterens. They could handle anything from Light Infantry to Medium Vehicles quite well.... The highlight of there glory was in a game against SMurfs. A Predator and 2 Tactical squads failed to better the Veterans who were dug into some ruins. 17 out of 20 Marines and an Autolas Predator were out of play by turn 6 and only 4 of the Veterens had lost there lives. This was mostly luck, I understand.... But I love Harker! He is a badass, and a stand in will appear in my upcoming Renegade Guard army Dave
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Post by yvain on Feb 15, 2013 19:51:46 GMT -5
Sounds like the consensus is to keep him the way I have him built. I appreciate the tips!
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Post by commisarblur on Feb 17, 2013 22:47:26 GMT -5
I've used Harker once in a dense city fight game and teamed him with a second Heavy Bolter, I can't remember for sure what I gave the rest of the squad, probably sniper rifles. This kept the unit cheap, and had a clear anti-infantry role. I infiltrated him high up in a ruin and his squad became a pillbox that rained death into the streets below. He was hard to shift and due to being on 3rd floor was well out of charge range for ages. Personally I wouldn't use melta with Harker, there are other ways to get melta close to the enemy, if outflanking I'd stick with your plasma. Yeah, Snipers with Harken in a dense cover spot are the way to go with this fella. Course I choose a autocannon for my HW choice for long range killing power. Haven't tried him in a game though because of the points cost primarily.
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Post by glutebite on Feb 19, 2013 16:44:33 GMT -5
Well this thread peeked my interest in Harker.
Going to run him tonight (1750 list) - 3 Plasma with Vets and Forward Sentries.
Will see how that goes.
My idea is to infiltrate into cover first turn. If that's not advantageous then I'm going to put the squad into reserve and outflank when they come in.
Wait? Harker/Vet Squad doesn't get Outflank right? That means I'd have to come in from my table edge on reserve?
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Post by yvain on Feb 19, 2013 17:26:35 GMT -5
He has infiltrate, which grants outflank.
I usually out flank with him. The bigger games get, the more can effect a single unit early on. Also, I have lots of artillery to slap the enemy around with; so I want to be as far away as possible. Once the enemy has commited his troops to specific targets, I pop him out where he is needed most. I have yet to get a 1 or 2 so its usually a side and their always seems to be a target for him. I will try to put him behind the enemy main line so he has to turn around to get Harker at the very least stalling him from hitting my gun line. After that, its fun to watch my opponents face when 6 plasma bolts and 3 heavy bolter volleys chews up his army. It usually even better if Marbo shows up at the same time.
I tend to avoid sniper rifles in this kind of unit. I have Ratlings that can do that job for cheap. And the advantage to snipers is the high range and the +4 wound so they are always a better fit even though they are weaker. Ratlings are also a great, I have 30 points left what do I use them on unit.
I could see the grenade launchers if I was facing a predominantly +4 or +5 armor save armor army, but I haven't fought one since I switched to plasma from melta.
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Post by glutebite on Feb 20, 2013 8:33:28 GMT -5
Ran Harker last night in a 1850 pt battle. We only got 3 turns in due to some slow play on our part. We were playing Scourge game.
Harker squad came in on turn 2 (outflank - reserves) and from the right side and into a fortification ruins (+4 cover) and squad received +3 cover saves.
Opponent was Blood Angels and he had a Ryno/Terminator squad within 12" of the location where Harker came in.
My Exterminator popped open the Ryno and Harker's squad then wiped them out.
Worked out pretty good for me.
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Post by yvain on Feb 20, 2013 9:40:44 GMT -5
Ran Harker last night in a 1850 pt battle. We only got 3 turns in due to some slow play on our part. We were playing Scourge game. Harker squad came in on turn 2 (outflank - reserves) and from the right side and into a fortification ruins (+4 cover) and squad received +3 cover saves. Opponent was Blood Angels and he had a Ryno/Terminator squad within 12" of the location where Harker came in. My Exterminator popped open the Ryno and Harker's squad then wiped them out. Worked out pretty good for me. Excellent! Now give them forward sentries and bump that +4 save to a +2 Drooooool The best part is no one ever expects a unit of guardsmen to pop up randomly and annihilate their precious super units. Then even better when they try to shoot back and they are like "Your cover save is what?"
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Post by glutebite on Feb 20, 2013 9:59:02 GMT -5
Ok.. I did give them Forward Sentries. But that only gives them Camo Cloaks which is +1 to the cover save of +4 for ruins.
How does it go to +2? (Did I miss something here.. because I played it as +3).
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Post by yvain on Feb 20, 2013 10:57:44 GMT -5
Harker grants stealth that is -1 cover and then the camo cloaks give plus -1 cover. They now count as separate. So if you start with a +4 you go to a +2
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Post by christopher300 on Feb 20, 2013 11:16:49 GMT -5
I believe it is because Harker gives the unit stealth so thats an additional +1
But an interesting question is can you have the same special ability twice as the camo cloak gives you stealth but so does Harker, do you get the benefit twice?
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Post by yvain on Feb 20, 2013 11:32:01 GMT -5
Camo cloaks no longer give stealth, they just reduce cover save. So now you can use both for awesome
It is in the IG faq from when 6th came out.
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Post by glutebite on Feb 20, 2013 16:42:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the update/info... I missed Harker giving the squad Stealth and only counted the Camo Cloaks.
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Post by Captain Zapp Brannigan on Sept 28, 2013 1:11:35 GMT -5
So what would be the best way to kit Harker and his boys out with against a horde army?
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Post by barghest on Oct 5, 2013 17:58:34 GMT -5
So what would be the best way to kit Harker and his boys out with against a horde army? I don't particularly feel as though he lends himself well to an anti-horde role beyond his squad's anti-infantry build (sniper rifles or plasma guns with autocannons or heavy bolters). Against hordes Guard have enough tools to handle them anyway, whether with weight of lasgun fire, flamers or blast templates. That's just my opinion, mind. Personally, I use Harker and his squad with an Aegis Defense Line. BS 4 for the quad-gun and a go to ground cover save of 3+
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Post by yvain on Oct 6, 2013 19:30:47 GMT -5
Behind a defense line stealth should get you a natural 3+. Going to ground would be 2+
I disagree with that use however. Any veteran squad can hide behind the defense line and achieve a similar effect similar effect as Harker's squad for cheaper than Harker costs. The Harker advantage is deployment mobility and he is essentially a Chimera replacement hence his price cost.
You really should look at him as a cheaper more flexible version of Stormtroopers and should almost be fielded as such. Look for a primary target infiltrate or outflank to annihilate. Hide in cover and harass secondary and tertiary targets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 9:34:18 GMT -5
Against a horde army I'd recommend Harker, a Heavy Bolter Team and x3 Snipers. You'll have a decent amount of anti-infantry firepower combined with frustrating pinning tests. Most horde armies (Orks, Tyranids) rely on gaining ground quickly to close the gap and engage your troops in CC pin them then shell them with artillery
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