Discussion Fodder/Cannon Fodder 1850

[Gunny O'Grady]

For your consideration... this is a modern iteration of the mech-guard. Discussion points after the list. Is it competitive? Would it get rolled? Opinions and discussion encouraged.

HQ
Tank Command Squadron:
-Tank Commander in Leman Russ Vanquisher
-Leman Russ Vanquisher
-Leman Russ Vanquisher

TROOPS
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta
Vendetta

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank

1855 Points
60 Footsloggers
14 Vehicles

So, as far as Dakka goes, we have: 3x Vanquisher Cannons, 3x Battle Cannons, 6x Twin-Linked Autocannon, 6x Autocannons, 6x Twin-Linked Lascannons, and the assorted lasguns and hull heavy bolters. Also worth noting, the six TL Lascannons can Skyfire to cover the AA firing niche.

As far as tactics go, this list utilizes MSU to make up for the fragility of the T3 Guardsman and tinfoil Taurox Imperial Short Bus. Being an essentially objective-based game, this list provides a bunch of potential scoring units with transports to boot. They are protected further by the large group of other juicy targets that will distract the opponent for at least a few turns.

Tactical? Infantile? What do you think of this theoretical list?

-Gunny

[yvain]

I think you should drop a vanquisher and use the points to special weapon your guardsmen. Then maybe trade a veteran squad for a naked CCs for some orders. I think the orders will add some solid flexibility to your list especially if you have a few special weapons in there to make your troops more lethal. The third Vanquisher is redundant I think. You are better off With 2 of them with Lascannons because of the cheapness of the lascannon upgrade verse the price of another LR.

[gamma016]

My thoughts are switch out the veterans for infantry squads, and then stick flamer PCS' in your vandetta's. You will need to drop one of your vanquishers to fit this into a 1850 point game, but I think it's for the best. This way you have two very mobile scoring units that can be dropped and clear objectives with their flamers, and still six squads with auto cannons in ISB's. The drop from BS4 to BS3 does kinda suck but I'm sure it will be fine.

[Gunny O'Grady]

Again, this isn't a list that I intend to collect or play a game with, so these responses are purely theoretical. Suggestion and counter-suggestion, trying to make all of us better at looking at lists. If I offend anybody, let me know and I'll be a little less cold with my counter-arguments.

@ Yvain -- Why give Special Weapons to the Guardsmen? A squad with two kinds of weapons will always force one gun to fire A) not at all, or B) in a sub-optimum way. For example, let's say we gave each squad a Plasmagun and an Autocannon. If the Plasmagun is shooting at a target 24 inches away, then the 48" range of the Autocannon is going to waste. If you stay a safer distance away with the 48" range of the Autocannon, you're not shooting your Plasmagun. Many such contradictions of application exist. In addition, all of the Special and Heavy Weapons have slightly different firing niches. Giving a single squad two jobs at once reduces their effectiveness at doing both, because you have to choose a job for them each turn and neglect the other. The only exception I could see to this is the Sniper Rifle, simply because it is so freaking cheap that the cost-benefit sort of works out. Even if that Sniper doesn't get to shoot, it was only two points.

All that being said, I see the need for a CCS. Orders are nice. See the revised list below for that addition.

@ Gamma016 -- I don't see the justification for making all of the Veterans into regular Guardsmen. The BS thing, to me, seems huge. If you just take a look at all the autocannons, it's the difference between an average of 6 shots landing per-turn and 8 shots landing per-turn. The chances of glancing something to death or of stacking more wounds on MCs can only go up if you land more hits. As mentioned above, I do see the need for orders, though. Also, I agree that the third Vanquisher feels a little excessive.

REVISED LIST
HQ
Tank Command Squadron:
-Tank Commander in Leman Russ Vanquisher
-Leman Russ Vanquisher

Company Command Squad: Autocannon, Taurox

TROOPS
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox
Veteran Squad: Autocannon, Taurox

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta
Vendetta

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank

[gamma016]

The reason I suggest infantry squads over veterans is that you gain two scoring units that are being transported in by your vandetta's. Also if you plan on moving the ISB at all then the auto cannons will be snap firing so BS4 won't really matter. The CCS will also be a pointless unit as you cannot issue orders from inside a vehicle or recieve orders from inside a vehicle.

[Purple Dice]

Well you can give orders from a chimera as it has the mobile command vehicle rule, thank goodness. But I agree with you Gamma that there is no point in orders if all your units are in vehicles.

If we remove the CCS and it's accompanying taurox, I would, with the points swap the rest of the tauroxes out for Chimeras. This is because, despite losing a twin-linked autocannon, which is a beautiful thing, you are getting a multi-laser and heavy bolter (3 shots each, so more than make up for the twin-linked) and, more importantly provides an AV 12 wall. AV 11 is too thin in my opinion, especially when you can glance things to death these days. You also get the potentially beneficial or utterly useless (debate still going) lasgun arrays. The issue is that you now have only 36" range, but I think it is still worth it, AV 12 is tough enough to repel small arms fire and I think that is crucial, as part of the strategy revolving around mechanised is that you deny the opponent the use of their small arms fire.

This will leave you a few extra points, and like yvain said, I would add a couple lascannons to the Vanquishers, too often will you miss with the main cannon (pesky BS3) and then your tank contributes nothing, adding a lascannon, which is cheap as chips now, raises the odds of at least hitting with one effective ant-armour weapon.

I can't see how you could add this in with the Chimeras, but something else that could be nice is a couple prescience psykers. re-rolling vanquisher shots is definitely worth it.

- Dice