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Post by RedCuffs on May 26, 2015 15:42:45 GMT -5
I thought I'd mention, for those who don't know yet, that my local gaming store tried to order some SM codex ... none in stock, out of print. I'm led to believe that it means there's a new codex looming on the horizon. Anyone shed any light on this ?
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Post by emptyhat on May 26, 2015 15:49:09 GMT -5
There has been a rumour of that bumping around the nets for a few weeks at least. It seems pretty soon though.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on May 26, 2015 20:27:47 GMT -5
I think GW put out an official video teasing next weekend as the first wave of "new" Sphess Muhreen stuffs...
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Post by emptyhat on May 27, 2015 1:50:32 GMT -5
I wonder what will happen to Black Templars.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 27, 2015 11:33:51 GMT -5
^ They're being rolled into 'Imperial Fists' until they get their own codex, which apparently, might never happen. (Which is stupid because there are models for Grimaldus and Helbrecht)
I'm also cheesed about having to save up and get about 200 32mm bases. Just when I was ready to start my new mech army with all new sandy bases. Now they're going to get snapped off and rebased..
There are some good points
- new command tanks
- squadrons of whirlwinds and vindies
- all 1st company armies/ all jump packers ; which is a huge kick in the face to D/A and B/A
Also there are more rumours about DA following hot on the heels of the new SM.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on May 27, 2015 19:55:08 GMT -5
I think there are folks out there who are making adapters that you can slip onto the old 25 mm bases to make them 32 mm. Likely what I'm going to have to do for a bunch of my Sphess Muhreen stuffs, aside from my new Blood Angels that I was working on before haring off on Daemons and AdMech.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 28, 2015 9:38:06 GMT -5
I might just leave everything as is..
Toying with the idea of a Raven Guard successor chapter as allies to go with my Skitarii until I can afford more AdMech stuff. For starters I'm not too keen on those Sicarian Ruststalkers but the more I read the rules there is a perverse appeal. Even though they're T3 they have all kind of special rules, transonic weaponry and they move/ run with an extra 3" on their base move.
I'm kind of hoping that the chapter tactics options are still in the new codex.
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Post by emptyhat on May 28, 2015 17:33:53 GMT -5
^ They're being rolled into 'Imperial Fists' until they get their own codex, which apparently, might never happen. (Which is stupid because there are models for Grimaldus and Helbrecht) I'm also cheesed about having to save up and get about 200 32mm bases. Just when I was ready to start my new mech army with all new sandy bases. Now they're going to get snapped off and rebased.. There are some good points - new command tanks - squadrons of whirlwinds and vindies - all 1st company armies/ all jump packers ; which is a huge kick in the face to D/A and B/A Also there are more rumours about DA following hot on the heels of the new SM. Don't snap them off, glue the new base size to the bottom of the old one and give it a levelled effect. As a bonus your space marines will be 'taller' than your guard.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 29, 2015 8:44:42 GMT -5
If we can base them however we want I could put them on 200mm pewter bases and take up the whole table with a single spaced out tac squad.
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Post by RedCuffs on May 29, 2015 11:08:19 GMT -5
Any idea if the scouts are going to be on 32mm bases too ?
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Post by cheminhaler on May 29, 2015 13:50:07 GMT -5
Not too sure...
But if you think back to the Blood Angel release the new BA tacticals and old death company boxes were upgraded to 32mm. The scouts are still 25mm.
So I don't think they will ; you're lucky on that front.
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Post by dougeye on May 30, 2015 12:14:22 GMT -5
just seen the new assault squad has been released plus Forge world style (but plastic) chapter upgrade kits, so U symbols on chest plates for ultramarines etc. + larger bases.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 30, 2015 14:34:08 GMT -5
I think I saw them on the GW site as well today. New kits are always good.
This is like a repeat of 10 year ago when the SW got lumbered with the old bitz. Those still fancying old style devastators/ assault marines can still buy Skyclaws/ Long Fangs. Although you'd still have to buy other sm bits in any case, so its a double edged sword.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 30, 2015 15:57:38 GMT -5
How the frigging hell is a 10 man assault squad worth $82?!
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Post by cheminhaler on May 30, 2015 16:03:10 GMT -5
I'm seeing 5 for £25 or 10 for £50.
It's just a very lazy one click bundle; it'll be 2 boxes of 5 not one box of ten. It must get confusing for the trolls these days. What if someone orders 92 of a bundle that contains 7 of the same item? They'll need to get the calculators out...
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 30, 2015 16:06:32 GMT -5
I get that it's a bundle without savings, GW's been doing that for years. I still can't believe the price though. Buying Vanguard veterans would be cheaper by $1, and they look cooler and give you more melee options to spread around your army.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 30, 2015 16:11:57 GMT -5
That's weird. Over here both of those kits are the same price; £25.
It looks like you're actually being gouged that extra dollar in a very in your face kind of way...
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Post by yvain on May 30, 2015 16:16:22 GMT -5
I get that it's a bundle without savings, GW's been doing that for years. I still can't believe the price though. Buying Vanguard veterans would be cheaper by $1, and they look cooler and give you more melee options to spread around your army. If is funny, when I first started this hobby I was like these prices are not so bad. All the Vets were like "Sonny in my day a squad of 20 marines cost 50 cents" etc etc Now here we are now and I am one of the old crotchy vets I guess now. 41 dollars for 5 guys. 8 dollars for a rank an file model. It seems so absurd. One of those guys from mini wargaming said when you look at the numbers these prices they usually charge actually make sense. I just don't see how though. As I get older and free money has become more frequent, I feel less bothered by spending on pretty much everything. Except GW! I just can't understand their price logic and marketing plan. I really don't understand why anyone even buys direct from them at all any more unless they are absolutely forced to.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 30, 2015 16:20:44 GMT -5
I get that it's a bundle without savings, GW's been doing that for years. I still can't believe the price though. Buying Vanguard veterans would be cheaper by $1, and they look cooler and give you more melee options to spread around your army. If is funny, when I first started this hobby I was like these prices are not so bad. All the Vets were like "Sonny in my day a squad of 20 marines cost 50 cents" etc etc Now here we are now and I am one of the old crotchy vets I guess now. 41 dollars for 5 guys. 8 dollars for a rank an file model. It seems so absurd. One of those guys from mini wargaming said when you look at the numbers these prices they usually charge actually make sense. I just don't see how though. As I get older and free money has become more frequent, I feel less bothered by spending on pretty much everything. Except GW! I just can't understand their price logic and marketing plan. I really don't understand why anyone even buys direct from them at all any more unless they are absolutely forced to. I got in to the hobby right before 5th launched, which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't that long ago, and even I feel like that sometimes. I've got decent spending cash these days, and I still can't bring myself to buy GW kits, especially when I can find better kits for less elsewhere. I think the idea is that the pricing is partially based on points cost (hence how much Terminators cost), but even so, the GW price bracket isn't justified by the quality of the minis, and hasn't been for some time, especially when you look at the non-GW kits on the market. I think I've mentioned this before, but back when I worked at a hobby store, liscensed GW distributors (getting that license is a whole story in and of itself) could pick up product from GW for roughly 40% off, which means that if GW sells a kit marked up to full price from their web store, they pocket all of that. No wonder they've tried so hard to crush online sales by third parties.
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Post by treadiculous on May 30, 2015 17:04:14 GMT -5
ahh.. the good ol' GW price debate!
I got into 40k in the early 90's, back when rogue trader was the rulebook.
The mechanics for the game worked because it was based on game consisting of a tiny skirmish of about two squads on each side plus a vehicle and some crazy character.
These days the rules struggle to deal with the large size games we see, most troop units are about half (or less) the cost they used to be!
During this 20 years or so GW has constantly put the price up and people have complained, but then compare GW to Lego, Scalextric or other leading brands and you see that price wise they are comparable - they are the premium version and charge the customer for leading the hobby.
There are plenty of great independent model stores which can now flourish: there is a market in which the cost of models is so high it is worth spending the time to create, sculpt and cast models that compete with GW.
There is also the bonus that everyone's models go up in price on the second hand market every time GW does a price hike, so our hobby is also an investment!
We are on the cusp of 3D printing becoming viable, at which point I'm not sure what GW will do - we will all be able to design and print the models we like with ease... I can see each GW store having a printer so you can customise and print your own stuff in store, it'll still be costly but you won't have to worry about glitches in the rendering.
only time will tell.
and yes, "I remember the day when you could go into the store, scoop up any handful of lead/pewter goblins from the goblin tub and pay £0.50p"
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Post by RedCuffs on May 31, 2015 18:37:22 GMT -5
You make the best argument I've heard/read for accepting the price rises. And if we want to continue to play we'll have to accept them. But I don't think your argument "justifies" the price rises at all. Some things have near doubled in price in 5-6 years. That does not reflect inflation, oil prices (before or after they crashed), Tax changes ... It's mostly pure profiteering.
The thing I'm actually fearful of is that GW, like so many other great British industries will eventually choke itself out of the market. Asking people to pay for more than what they get relying solely on brand loyalty.
And some of what they get is forced to buy expensive new books more frequently, forced to buy expensive (£+$) new models to stay competitive, Expensive (£+$) units now nerfed by new rules.
The British car industry did it and all the motorcycle manufacturers. Loads more, too many to mention.
But the main reason most of my mates ditched 40k ... They just got to grips with 6th ed, spent a lot of time and money tweeking their several armies to suit it then "BOOM" ... 7th ed. None of them had the time to go through it all again.
Now they mostly play Drop Zone. Just as much fun and much more stability rules wise. And all their 40K is in the loft or on ebay.
My local club played all 40K when I started this in '07. Not at all now, None of them, It's mostly DropZone Commander.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 1, 2015 5:55:19 GMT -5
redcuffs: there is little to justify the over-zealous price increases!
We see 10 man box sets become 5 man and the price remains the same - dire avengers did this and now space marines.
most armies can cost roughly the same in money at the same points value, though horde style armies are more costly as a general rule.
You can squeeze a 1500 point army out of £300 which is a crazy start up cost.
Add to that terrain etc etc.
However, at 250 points per side 40k is a great game; fast paced and relatively simple: I think this is often overlooked as players strive toward large armies.
Try introducing low points games at your local games clubs and you might see a return of popularity.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 1, 2015 8:19:40 GMT -5
I've had quite a few 500 point games, good fun. Just as much as any other type of game. It's keeping up with the changes that's putting some people off.
I know it's very similar to 6th, but still, every rule has to be read and checked and then applied to a new army list. Very few people have the time for that. It's taken me a year to get around to learning 7th ed. when I can start experimenting with my SM Scouts and Skimmers army. I've only managed two games and guess what ... the codex is changing ... Again !
The frequency of the changes has made a lot of players I know give up.
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Post by yvain on Jun 1, 2015 9:30:15 GMT -5
Tread on the whole I am satisfied with my purchases. The amount of time in both modeling and gaming has made my investment worth the cost over the long run, however some of their stuff is still absurd. These new AM are basically the same as the old ones. They are hardly that impressive; you are basically paying 10 more dollars for a few more special weapons. Those Skitarii walkers that are basically 50 USD Sentinels. There are single model fantasy characters that are 42$ US. That are a bit hard to swallow.
However my main problem is that GW does little to encourage my business. Their policies are essentially squeeze as much money out as possible. Their marketing plan is that me as a customer should be buying at least one of everything. Currently to exploit that further they release to bare bones codecs for Ad Mech separately so you have to buy two books to use them together like in the fluff. You might be like well they are cheaper, but they are loaded with filler stuff to extend their length. They are essentially overpriced black library books with a tiny rules add on. Its a shame because it is a cool idea to have mini factions like stormtroopers or skitarii that can go anywhere and ally with anyone, however they are so far up in price it basically makes them unacceptable unless you are a huge fan of the faction.
They also seem to tailor rules to buff up sales of new releases. They were doing it with individual units before and now that have the moronic gamebreaking formation to encourage you to buy their one click bundles. Or this new tread of buy all this stuff so you can get these exclusive special rules free with their no discount bundles.
It is really a miracle it hasn't toppled the game, which is the big concern because I still like it. When 7th came out and the rules started to even out across the board people I know where coming back in. Eldar and Necrons took care of that resurgent interest where I game. What were seeing now is more price grabbing stuff and I just can't justify every buying direct from GW. GW's response to our non-compliance is to further crush local game stores to make it harder and harder for me to find a games, which of course make is more unlikely I will turn around and buy from GW for my armies let alone anything new.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 1, 2015 11:35:10 GMT -5
Anyway ... That's the rants over with ... not that anyone from GW will ever read it ... back to topic.
Anyone got any juicy rumours about the impending Space Marine Codex ? It's going to be Codex "Adeptus Astartes" isn't it ?
I'm especially interested in any changes to Scouts, Landspeeders and Bikes. Hopefully not too much. But I would like to see the ability to take two "Land Speeder Storms" for a single Scout Squad of ten men. Maybe even a scout HQ choice.
I don't think I really want to see any more change than that But there again, I don't really know the Codex that well.
What would anyone else want to see ?
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