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Post by nutty on Nov 1, 2015 15:35:36 GMT -5
Hello Everyone,
I've been playing 40k for a couple of years now, and got some Cadian infantry as part of larger secondhand lot some time ago. I was toying with the idea of using them as a small allied detachment for my Space Marines, or turning them into (Gue'vesa) Auxiliaries for my Tau army. But those ideas never got beyond the planning stage, and those Cadians have been gathering dust on a shelf for some time now. Last week however I figured it was high time to give them some much needed attention and get started on this army.
After a spur of the moment online shopping spree my infantry regiment is certainly starting to take shape. But I have very little experience with the Imperial Guard. The only guard player I've faced was during a campaign, he used to run this nightmare list where he'd hide a bunch of medusa's behind chimera's and blast everything of the table... Not a lot of fun to play against, so at some point I just ended up conceding all the games I 'had' to play against him.
Anyways I registered on these boards so I could have a look around, search for some inspiration, and get some list building tips when the time comes.
Thank you for reading my ramblings,
Nutty
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Post by cheminhaler on Nov 1, 2015 16:09:25 GMT -5
Welcome, nutty
Actually I find it's fun trying to crack seemingly tough lists. Consider if you maxed out on lascannon teams and took scout sentinels with autocannon to try to take out the artillery. If you ever play guard vs guard it usually ends up quite static, unless chimeras, rough riders, scout sentinels or storm troopers are in play.
Also consider getting the stronghold assault book for fortifications. The cover save will help against artillery strikes and some of them have interesting weapons attached. Like there's one where you can get access to battle cannon or punisher cannon as a static turret and you can buy trench sections to hide your infantry for that particular type.
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Post by OConnell on Nov 1, 2015 16:44:31 GMT -5
Welcome to the Guard brother!
As per your Guard vs Guard dilemma, possibly an armored company list? Send a column of Leman Russ straight up the board firing at will and you should reach his line (or what's left of it) in no time.
Or as cheminhaler stated, multiple lascannons and possibly storm troopers with meltas. I'm not sure if they can deep strike, but if they can and you're able, let them lay waste to his artillery.
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Post by nutty on Nov 1, 2015 18:01:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the words of welcome, I should clarify though: I've never played guard vs guard (I've never played with a guard army at all) the 'nightmare' list I described was one I faced with my 4th edition Tau army which was my only army at the time. Even whilst loading up on railguns I couldn't get through the Chimera's quick enough, before the vendetta's and medusa's turned my army into rubble. That was more of an issue with the Tau codex at the time than anything else though. After rereading my post, I discovered that I edited out the part where I mentioned the campaign took place at the start of sixth edition. My apologies for the confusion My guard army at the moment consists of two squads of badly beaten up Cadians that I got as an 'extra' when I bought a small used Marine army online. A few days ago I bought a partially built infantry platoon (about 60 guys, including heavy weapons), and ordered some new boxes so I'd have a comand squad and plenty of bits to fix up the used ones. So by next weekend I'll have about the following: 1 CCS 2 PCS ~90 infantrymen 16 heavy weapons squads and a Leman Russ So plenty of infantry, but not a clue what to do with them... Well I'll paint them up and they'll look cool on the table due to the fact that there is a boatload of them, tactically though... Not a clue. They could use some more armour support, but due to my recent purchases that will have to wait a month or two.
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Post by OConnell on Nov 1, 2015 23:32:31 GMT -5
Tau vs Guard is definitely a relatably brutal battle. My buddy used to play Guard against my Tau and occasionally used a "wall of terrain" to block the LOS of my entire army while he blasted away at them with a couple Basilisks. Not great, but on the reverse, my Tau generally caused heavy casualties in very open terrain.
Guard work well in large numbers. If you have the codex or understand the organizations and rules for their units; you can, basically have combined squads of infantry squads (ie. One PCS, one 20-man infantry squad, one 10-man infantry squad OR one PCS, one 40-man infantry squad.
And orders. A CCS or a PCS can issue an "order" to any squad that is not their own giving them excellent buffs such as adding an extra shot to everyone who fires a lasgun that phase.
Also, I hear Wyverns are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Apparently because they are only an extremely small number of points for a pair of stormshard mortars.
I'm fairly new to the Guard myself but I've been studying the codices since I started in the early 2000's, yet it's been a while lately since I have so I'll have to get back to you on some of the finer points.
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Post by nutty on Nov 2, 2015 7:46:05 GMT -5
I got the Astra Militarum codex, and have been reading through it.
By the looks of it should be able to run two infantry platoons and perhaps a couple of veteran squads, with the Russ for support. Right now I'm still waiting for my purchased to arrive. I'll get to planning the squads out when they get here, and look for some suggestions on how to equip them.
The wyverns look brutal for their points, so I'll probably pick some up in the future.
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Post by vulpine on Nov 2, 2015 11:30:26 GMT -5
Welcome brother... Before we gift you your lasgun, take this Frag and drop it down a rebel Leaman Russ hatch... Then report back!
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Post by nutty on Nov 2, 2015 14:12:49 GMT -5
Welcome brother... Before we gift you your lasgun, take this Frag and drop it down a rebel Leaman Russ hatch... Then report back! *salutes, and runs out into the field*
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Post by cheminhaler on Nov 2, 2015 15:23:17 GMT -5
Lascannons or flakk missile launchers are probably the best bet for an infantry heavy list. Heavy weapon teams die very easily in cover and even more out of cover. In fact any S6 hit will kill both models in one hit. Every game I played with infantry heavy lists the casualty pile always mounted up but there was usually stuff around at the end. How the game has changed in 7th, with Maelsrom of War missions, its better to have some degree of mobility so you can get to objectives quickly. Uniquely with Maelstrom missions you don't have to hold onto an objective once you've completed that mission; you just discard the card/ mission and choose another.
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Post by nutty on Nov 2, 2015 20:30:36 GMT -5
The lack of mobility and durability in my current guard collection is a bit of a concern... The Russ is the only thing that can take a beating: but as the only vehicle on the field it might not last that long regardless. Adding a pair of Chimeras in the near future should help with both those problems though. I should have the funds for that by the time I'm done painting my infantry. I'm by no means opposed to adding armor support to the army, I just got a good deal on a bunch of infantry models. In the meantime I could always use some Space Marine allies to go out and capture objectives. It's interesting you reccomend Lascannons and Flaklaunchers, I was thinking that autocannons would be the way to go. But than again.. I have very little experience with the IG.
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Post by cheminhaler on Nov 3, 2015 8:20:47 GMT -5
Autocannons are great against Ork Trukks, chimeras or any light vehicles but useless against Leman Russes or Land Raiders. I have 2 armies with loads of a/cs and they are useless against mechanised lists with lots of Lemans.
But on outflanking scout sentinels they are the best. Rear shots on vehicles usually work - unless they are Raiders.
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Post by nutty on Nov 3, 2015 11:14:47 GMT -5
Autocannons are great against Ork Trukks, chimeras or any light vehicles but useless against Leman Russes or Land Raiders. I have 2 armies with loads of a/cs and they are useless against mechanised lists with lots of Lemans. But on outflanking scout sentinels they are the best. Rear shots on vehicles usually work - unless they are Raiders. That makes sense, dedicating some HWS to hunting armor. How about heavy weapons in infantry/vet squads? I was thinking about running two platoons with 4 infantry squads each, and keeping about half these squads mobile to slog up to a nearby objective/ruin and hunker down. Keeping the other squads back to guard objectives in my deployment zone, and protect the heavy weapons teams. A rough outline of what I have in mind: --- CCS (not sure on equipment) - stay in cover in my deployment zone to order the backfield squads around Platoon 1: PCS (Flamers or Grenade Launchers) moves up with the mobile squads squad 1: (Flamer or GL) moves up the field squad 2: same as squad one squad 3: (Autocannon and GL) stays back to protect objectives and HWT squad 4: same as squad 3 HWT 1: Lascannons HWT 2: Missile Launchers Platoon 2: PCS: (Flamers or Grenade Launchers) moves up with the mobile squads squad 1: (Flamer or GL) moves up the field squad 2: same as squad 1 squad 3: (Heavy Bolter and GL) stays back to protect objectives and HWT squad 4: same as squad 3 HWT 1: Mortars Leman Russ: (Battlecannon and hull mounted Lascannon) --- which should end up between 1000-1100 points depending on upgrades, or I could push it up to 1250 be turning a few infantry squads into veterans and upgrade the mortars. Suggestions are appreciated ofcourse
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Post by OConnell on Nov 3, 2015 16:23:49 GMT -5
Someone told me mortars aren't great. I have yet to try them out so I'm not sure from experience but they may be effective against tightly-packed infantry armies.
Flamers, grenade launchers, missile launchers and lascannons are all heavily effective though and you can always add a few points to your command squads with advisors, possibly a standard bearer, and either a medic or carapace armor.
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Post by nutty on Nov 3, 2015 17:22:57 GMT -5
I like the idea of Mortars more than their stats to be honest, but there's been an increasing amount of Orks in my gaming group so they might come in usefull.
The CCS will need some gear ofcourse, im just not sure what to give them yet.
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The Iron Infidel
Lieutenant
There's something special about a woman in a gas mask...
Posts: 103
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Post by The Iron Infidel on Nov 4, 2015 1:56:01 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd take Autocannons against Orks instead of mortars. It's barely a price increase, and you can pop Trukks with ease. Your primary weapon for taking out the green tide is going to be the humble Lasgun, at least in my experience. The weight of fire your assault squads can put out is nothing to sniff at, especially for how inexpensive they are.
For special weapons, especially picking between a GL or a Flamer, I would have to pick Flamer most every time. The small blast isn't terribly useful unless you get lucky/your opponent forgets to space his infantry out, and the single krak shot is extremely lackluster against hard targets your lasguns can't touch. Flamers also act as a (light) charge deterrent, because you get free hits on overwatch with them.
Your CCS is a good place to put a heavy weapon if you're set on keeping it in the back, since the BS4 does make a Lascannon there a little better. A slightly more offensive CCS, as well as potentially either your PCS or line squads, could take a couple Plasma Guns. They have a higher strength than the krak shot from a GL, have the AP to make even Terminators quake in their boots, and even have the same rate of fire and range as your Lasguns. They're more expensive, and more dangerous to Guardsmen with their low save if it overheats, but they let your boots on the ground threaten light transports as well as the heaviest of infantry.
My personal favorite special weapon is the Meltagun, because I happen to play with treadheads. They're short range, but when you must slag a traitor Russ or Land Raider, accept no substitutes. Anything I put on the table has to be able to hurt AV14 in a pinch, and while you probably won't have to deal with anything quite that extreme, it's always handy to have a couple as a backup to make your opponent think twice about getting near your infantry when you have a PCS with some Meltas nearby.
It also does just come down to what you like and what you want from your infantry. This is mostly just my opinion on everything, and your mileage may vary depending on your usual opponents and play style. I really didn't mean to ramble on so long, really...
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Post by OConnell on Nov 4, 2015 2:32:37 GMT -5
I like mortars for their fluffy feel and I feel as though a couple squads could do some serious damage to infantry.
I feel like the risk is too high with plasma guns. Yes, they're highly effective but the everpresent risk of getting yourself blown up is a pretty tough factor to deal with. Though, it may be nice to hold onto them and not fire unless you're actually in a bunch.
Meltas = Yes. All day every day.
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Post by nutty on Nov 4, 2015 5:42:30 GMT -5
I really didn't mean to ramble on so long, really... As one rambler to another: no worries, and thanks for the pointers My Marines do love them some meltas, and being able to take more than one of them in a squad is pretty great. The guard command squads kind of confuse me, they can take a bunch of special weapons (which is great) but their main purpose seems to be giving orders. So my first idea was to arm them with GL's so they could advance up along with my other squads (combined into a 20man squad or seperate) and give orders whilst trying to stay out of charge/rapidfire range of the enemy, and adding a bit of firesupport with the GL's. Then I thought about giving them all flamers, because 3-4 flamers will put the hurt on anything that isn't a MC or vehicle, and use them to discourage the enemy from getting to close. Meltas (or plasmas) will have the same affect on MCs and vehicles for sure, but I suspect they will also attract a lot more fire and there arent a lot of bodies in the squad to soak up wounds. Maybe I should run one PCS with Flamers and the other with Meltas so I can hurt vehicles up close, and take some attention of the Flamer PCS. Honestly I just need to get these guys on the table and try them out, but I'm still waiting for most of them to arrive in the mail
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Post by treadiculous on Nov 4, 2015 7:13:49 GMT -5
Hi,
Late to the party here.
I love infantry lists and have a number of all infantry battle reports on this thread.
I also love mortars.
My advice would be to plant your heavy weapons inside your platoon blobs - this makes them a lot less vulnerable and gives a real solid backfield objective unit.
I would place grenade launchers on the PCS rather than flamers (because you'll find it hard getting their flamers to do much - I find my PCS is behind the squad they are giving orders too and would have to flame a lot of my own men in order to get the template top also hit the enemy. Grenade launchers are cool against T3 enemies and 4 x S6 will damage light and medium vehicles reliably.
Mortars are great one you have several squads of them, I would aim toward 3 to 6 squads of the things, they are easy to make using bits and re-posing regular troopers.
..in fact a heavy weapon squad box will allow you to make a lascannon / autocannnon [they can swap as the length of the rear of the gun is the same]using one crouched infantry model and the tri-pod, a missile launcher with no bi-pod [looks best shoulder mounted on a regular guardsman], and a mortar using the bi-pod and the other crouched infantry model.
Mortars are cheap and will dish out a huge amount of pain, they can zero in and effectively snipe models from inside units allowing you to cause multiple wounds to a space marine with a missile launcher while only using one squad yourself.
Heavy Bolters aren't worth the points generally.
Heavy weapon squads of lascannons can be useful as they will never target infantry, I personally prefer heavy weapons in my gunline and to give them missile launchers (these can be given flakk anti air missiles too), the tank hunter special rule from the CCS orders will ensure you get good penetration rolls, and if needed the missile launchers can fire frag into infantry.
That said Lascannons in multiples are reliable ways to damage heavy vehicles, it'll depend on how many other anti tank units you are fielding as to whether these fragile units are required.
Finally, I'd stick in a Master of Ordnance, he'll miss a lot of the time but will scare the heck out of your opponent! Put him in the CCS with a regimental banner (for order re-rolls) and hide the CCS somewhere safe that still enables gunline squads to get the orders.
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The Iron Infidel
Lieutenant
There's something special about a woman in a gas mask...
Posts: 103
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Post by The Iron Infidel on Nov 4, 2015 7:21:35 GMT -5
My PCS are typically just for special weapon delivery, though I do like to keep them in Chimeras. Something to keep in mind is that you can issue orders out of a chimera, measuring from the hull, to your footsloggers. Honestly, for how cheap and useful they are, using two CCS can be great if you stuff them in Chimeras and give them Melta or Plasma. I wouldn't buy a second box just on this whim, but the BS4 and extra range/orders can really help.
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Post by nutty on Nov 4, 2015 13:46:50 GMT -5
Welcome to the party Treadiculous; I had a look at the Battle Reports section earlier today and read a couple of your batreps, it was interesting to 'see' an infantry list in action.
All of my guard stuff is secondhand and most of it hasn't arrived yet, so I'm not sure if I'll have all the heavy weapons bits that come with the box.. but if I do I'll definitely order some extra bases to make some more teams. It's always nice to have some options available when making a list, or to just throw heaps of shots across the table.
The Iron Infidel: Just out of curiosity.. If you use your PCS just for the special weapons than why not use veterans instead? for the cost of a meltagun you get +1 ballistic skill & 5 extra wounds men, seems like a good trade-off to me.
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The Iron Infidel
Lieutenant
There's something special about a woman in a gas mask...
Posts: 103
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Post by The Iron Infidel on Nov 5, 2015 5:49:33 GMT -5
I'm buying the platoon for the bodies, since I'm a little old fashioned. Since I have the PCS there anyway, I give them a purpose other than giving out an order or two. The way I see it, a PCS with four flamers is the same price as a basic squad, and you get lots of value for the price.
But yes, most weapons are better carried by vets, and that's why most people run vets in the first place.
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Post by nutty on Nov 5, 2015 6:11:19 GMT -5
I'm buying the platoon for the bodies, since I'm a little old fashioned. Since I have the PCS there anyway, I give them a purpose other than giving out an order or two. The way I see it, a PCS with four flamers is the same price as a basic squad, and you get lots of value for the price. But yes, most weapons are better carried by vets, and that's why most people run vets in the first place. That clears it up, thanks.
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Post by that1guy on Nov 12, 2015 22:44:27 GMT -5
Welcome to the ranks comrade, I'm pretty new myself and have come to the conclusion that there are basically two types of lists. (I'm sure with a little ingenuity & creativity you could create more different types but I've only played a few games so this is just what philosophies I'm developing)
The Armored column type list's that a lot of senior members of the IGMB describe as cheese, which after checking out the prices on leman's russ battle tanks online I can see why. Not to mention it's certainly more expedient to physically build as you're assembling & painting tanks as oppose to waves and waves of human meat shields.
And the type of list I've finally got together which is your "gun line" type list, where the main objective is to bring as many lasrifles as possible for as little. Obviously I'm not objecting to my commrades advising you to bring lascannon's and ML's, on the contrary the lack of lascannon's in my army and putting too much responsibility on my 1 heavy weapon's team of ML's has led me to the same conclusion's that they are drawing for you.
Now with the "Gun Line" type list, (maybe there is already another term for this besides "gun line" and I'm reinventing the wheel) I've tried to make a side assault element to charge my opponents ranks but I'm not having any luck with it just yet. Actually I personally feel that I'm really over thinking these deployments and that the best strategy would be just to deploy as far back as remains beneficial to the terrain (aquiring cover bonuses, fortifying buildings or other strategic objectives, protecting my guys from the fearsome 'nid marlock by not allowing him to swallow a force I have dug into places he can't arrive) so as to make them come to us through as many rounds of shooting as the Emperor sees fit to bless us with.
Deploying too far forward (grabbing more real estate than you can pay taxes on), getting drawn into engagements over objectives we don't have much help of wrestling away from the enemy, not digging into objectives in our deployment zone and making them drag us out kicking and screaming.
These things are as un-natural to the Guard as not defecating your under pants in the face of the horrors the 41st millennium offers.
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Post by nutty on Nov 28, 2015 0:20:38 GMT -5
That1guy: thanks for the insight, and my apologies for the slow response... I'm used to getting a boatload of notifications from my local gaming group's message board telling me people replied to the topics I made/follow, so I tend to forget to check these fine boards.
I've actually played my first game with my Guardsmen last thursday and used tactics similar to what you described. It was great fun bringing ~75 guys to a 750 point game.. although I did have to proxy my veteran squad with high elves because I left them on my desk.
The whole lot of them pretty much hung out in the center of my deployment zone. (my opponent was outflanking buggies with skorchas) I used my plasma veterans and their chimera to counter-attack a small unit of meganobs that got to close to the line thanks to their trukk, and later sent out 20 guys with 2 flamers to put the hurt on a big squad of boyz when they got close to my lines. So my autocannon teams and wyvern could keep up the fire. It worked out pretty well, but I ended up with a minor loss on objectives (5-6)
This thursday I've got a 1250 game (a local vostroyan regiment is lending me some tanks to test out) planned against Blood Angels. I'll try and take some pictures and write up a more detailed batrep to see if I can get some pointers
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Post by that1guy on Dec 1, 2015 8:26:45 GMT -5
Blood Angels?!? RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!
I've got a game coming up vs. Space Wolves and my super top secret battle plans are to issue the "Move! Move! Move!" orders to all of my units and retreat turn 1 with out firing so much as a laspistol shot. lol.
Maybe that's being a bad sport but for some reason I find the concept obnoxiously hilarious, plus its not out of charector for the armies and the fluff right?
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