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Post by kirsten on May 1, 2017 16:53:01 GMT -5
well the AP changes and striking first if you charge will make big differences there. Bolters now have no AP, so even orks will get saves against them. It might have been a rumor that has been debunked already.. But aren't they adding a system where the strength of a weapon applies a negative modifier to the target's armour? So str4 = -1 armoursave = a 7+ save for the average Ork Boy? I don't think so, otherwise why specify that a lascannon for example is -3? at S9 it would already negate all saves.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 2, 2017 9:21:19 GMT -5
Some melee details.
-Units who charged hitting first is confirmed. Some units, such as Slaaneshi daemons and tyranids with the redundantly named lash whips can disrupt this, among other units. Stratagems can as well.
- Flat "To Hit" roll. Dedicated melee units hit on a 3+ usually, uber melee are looking at a 2+.
- At the start of the fighting subphase (After charges and overwatch), the units gets a 3in move to the closest enemy. This can suck in nearby units and deny overwatch
- Players take turns activating units to fight in this phase. This was a little vaguely worded.
- Even more rules for CC weapons! Because it's not like there weren't a bunch already.
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Post by emptyhat on May 2, 2017 18:54:37 GMT -5
I'm just glad to hear the actual pronunciation. Never would have guessed Robooty Gillyman. As someone who's name shortens down to Ro quite nicely, I might start referring to my butt as my Robooty.
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Post by dougeye on May 3, 2017 0:21:26 GMT -5
I'm on the fence about no templates. Although people stringing large units across the battlefield will now be pointless so I think guard artillery will make a comeback!
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Post by nutty on May 3, 2017 2:36:01 GMT -5
I'm on the fence about no templates. Although people stringing large units across the battlefield will now be pointless so I think guard artillery will make a comeback! I'm not sure what to feel about this either... it gives the blast/template weapons a lot power vs single targets, but on the other hand it completely negates the need to think about how you setup your units. Also... a truk full of burns boys is going to be something evil
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 3, 2017 7:07:01 GMT -5
The ability to suck multiple units into an assault thanks to that 3in move means you still need to be careful. It just means you don't have to spend all the time during the movement phase to make sure everything is as far apart as possible.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 3, 2017 10:05:41 GMT -5
Also, Morale!
If your unit takes casualties, you roll a D6 and add the number of casualties. If that sum is higher than your Ld. value, then you subtract a number of models equal to the "overbleed" of the test. There's no fall back, and single model units are immune. Interestingly, GW refers to these lost models as running away or carrying wounded comrades from the battlefield, so that opens some doors in narrative play.
So if you take two casualties, and test against Ld. 7, you're looking at 2+d6. If you get a 8, you remove one extra model from the unit.
Between this and the increased lethality of mobile heavy weapons and attackers striking first in assault, I'm sensing an attempt to stamp out MSU-style armies.
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Post by emptyhat on May 3, 2017 10:34:35 GMT -5
So everyone has mob rule now.
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Post by Melissia on May 3, 2017 14:35:35 GMT -5
Share our pain, non-Ork players.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 3, 2017 15:59:22 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see how this interacts with ATSKNF and things like Synapse (which may just create a Ld. bubble). Basic space marines now being Ld.7 also hints at a general reduction in Leadership values, since the test is on 1d6 now instead of 2d6.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 3, 2017 16:10:21 GMT -5
I prefer where serious wounds just shut down a section from doing anything except returning fire or fleeing in terror, but that's just my thing.
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Post by emptyhat on May 3, 2017 18:05:59 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see how this interacts with ATSKNF and things like Synapse (which may just create a Ld. bubble). Basic space marines now being Ld.7 also hints at a general reduction in Leadership values, since the test is on 1d6 now instead of 2d6. Obviously ATSKNF means they won't take casualties from leadership tests
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Post by Melissia on May 4, 2017 20:02:07 GMT -5
Probably will just give a modifier.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 5, 2017 13:52:27 GMT -5
Formations are dead. Deeeeeeead!
Also new FOCs, although we already new that.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 5, 2017 14:10:46 GMT -5
Does this mean that the Start Collecting boxes will have their little Formation sheets taken away?
Anyway formations were mostly a straitjacket in terms of unit selection, we'll have to see what new FOCs are like.
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Post by emptyhat on May 5, 2017 15:32:22 GMT -5
Formations were a neat idea but were applied so badly.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 5, 2017 15:55:58 GMT -5
You can check three of them out here. It looks like the Demi Company fits snugly into the Battalion formation. I think at least two of my collections will need the Brigade, though.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 8, 2017 10:54:00 GMT -5
- Squad members will be able to select their targets independently from the rest of the squad.
- Wounding is simplified. If the Str is higher than the target's T, it wounds on a 3+ (2+ if the Str is double the target's T). If it's less, it wounds on a 5+ (6+ if it's half the target's T). If they're equal it's a 4+.
I'm digging most of these changes (and the fact they're actually giving previews in the first place). I'm still waiting for some sort of proverbial turd in the punch bowl, though.
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Post by cheminhaler on May 8, 2017 11:33:37 GMT -5
"Squad members will be able to select their targets independently from the rest of the squad."
So a heavy weapon can shoot at a different target to the rest of the squad? That is so ... evil. Long Fangs are already crying that everyone stole their Split Fire rule.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 8, 2017 11:57:20 GMT -5
It's arguably better, since the current Long Fangs can only fire one weapon at a different target, from what I remember. The example GW gave was bolter goons shooting gaunts, while the special & heavy weapon guys each targeted different units.
Edit: Oh man, I just realized how much of a buff this is to Deathwatch and Sternguard.
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Post by emptyhat on May 8, 2017 17:38:07 GMT -5
It's arguably better, since the current Long Fangs can only fire one weapon at a different target, from what I remember. The example GW gave was bolter goons shooting gaunts, while the special & heavy weapon guys each targeted different units. Edit: Oh man, I just realized how much of a buff this is to Deathwatch and Sternguard. It might also ween people away from solo focused squads to multi-role. Things like autocannon, 3x flamer veteran squads might be more relevant.
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Post by Melissia on May 8, 2017 22:56:54 GMT -5
It'd also give a reason to equip some weapons to a guardsman infantry squad like meltaguns.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 9, 2017 10:07:57 GMT -5
Aaaand, there's the turd. Characters cannot join units anymore. Instead, they have an AoE bubble. Characters with a W stat of 10 or less cannot be targeted directly by shooting unless they're the closest unit to the shooter. THey can also pile into nearby assaults even if they aren't charged.
I'm really not sure I like this, but I'm willing to give it a shot. My real concern is transports; will they have to buy their own metal box, or can they at least hitch a ride with another squad?
On the other hand, I'm pleased they took a well deserved shot at the DA/Space Wolves combo formations that were so prevalent...
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Post by dougeye on May 9, 2017 11:44:37 GMT -5
Vindicar assassin will be untouchable! Not allowed to target him outside of combat. Just sit back and shoot! Lol
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 9, 2017 12:01:49 GMT -5
That'd be hilarious (well, maybe not for the other side), but I don't the'll count as a character in the way they're talking about.
Personally I'd like to be able to target them if they're within 6 or 12in, but that's just me.
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