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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Jul 4, 2007 13:19:56 GMT -5
i played a game the other day and i used an infiltrating hardened veteran squad as a suicide squad. so there they charging towards aload of SM's and my vet sargeant's boltgun, 7 lasguns and 2 grenade launchers opened a nice fresh can of PAIN! i killed 5 SM's in 2 shooting phase! but they were all wiped out in the end but they played a decisive role in my victory. just wanted to know what you guys think.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2007 15:40:02 GMT -5
Cool. Give 'em flamers next time, they're good but suicidal for guardsmen.
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Post by twerd on Jul 4, 2007 17:27:27 GMT -5
I do the same thing with my guardsmen but they have 3 flamers and are on cover negationing missions. hehe die scouts and rangers
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2007 4:09:42 GMT -5
As is said in tactia Imperium, a Good General will not lead his men to death just because he knows he will follow. Why don't you just use Orgyns and push forward holding up the enemy's strong units while the rest of your guard destory the rest.
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Post by Mabus on Jul 5, 2007 6:56:46 GMT -5
An Ogryn costs over three times as much as a basic Veteren. They would be unable to take any specialist guns, Although an ogryn Bone'ead can select items from the armoury. I suppose you could tool one of these guys up with all sorts of cool stuff though. Imagine a Bone'ead with a powerfist! That's a lot of very high strength attacks on the charge which do not allow armour saves. That could potentially smash any SM squad. I would still rather use a suicide veteren squad though. It's cheaper, would draw less fire power and has more ranged fire power.
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Post by Commissar on Jul 5, 2007 10:30:37 GMT -5
Vets are great! Give em all cookers and send em in! Maybe a bolter? A power fist on an ogryn would rule, just smashy smashy!
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Post by majorjav on Jul 6, 2007 14:26:24 GMT -5
I should say yes unfortunately...When the tide of a battle doesn't go very well, men have to sacrifice themselves to give their fellow comrade time to reorganise and counter assault...A small squad sacrifing itself can win a battle by its last stand....Shall we honour the dead!
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Post by 9th Company on Jul 6, 2007 21:39:48 GMT -5
I have to admit i`m planning on having such a squad in my army. I`m thinking that a 6 man Hardened veteran squad with 3 meltas and a sergeant with access to the imperial armoury costs about 80-90 points, but if launched against, for example an enemy tank could quite easily pay for themselves by taking out something vital to the enemies plan.
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Post by Mabus on Jul 7, 2007 5:28:18 GMT -5
That would work, but I think it is a bit of a waste never the less. Veterens can be used in dozens of different roles, they are very versatile. If you infiltrated wisely there's no end to the amount of trouble a squad of veterens could cause. I wouldn't use a veteren squad like this. I would prefer to have have a full 10 man squad with three grenade launchers and a heavy bolter. This would pack some serious mid-range firepower! Wouldn't it be cheaper though just to use a normal infiltrating or deepstriking standard infantry squad (you would obviously need the correct doctrines to do this) and equip the V.sergeant with melta bombs and a specialist in the squad with a melta gun. A squad like this should be quite capable of taking a tank out before getting killedThis tactic might not be as effective as 9th Company's idea but, if an army is short on points and has the appropriate doctrines it could work. Anyway, sorry if I bored you. That's my humble oppinion!
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Post by Commissar on Jul 7, 2007 23:34:16 GMT -5
Makes sense. I tend to use veterans to lay down some serious support fire and rarely infiltrate.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jul 9, 2007 5:28:20 GMT -5
I try to only suicide squads that are injured and have the potential to hold up an enemy unit for a round so that the rest of my troops can fall back a bit and get better position. as far as suiciding perfectly good squads into certain death situations like storm troopers going for a risky back shot on a tank, I'm not a fan. I try to make more humane and fluffy decisions than throwing away my most elite soldiers. that's not to say I don't use deepstriking kasrkins, I do, I just deep strike them safely in and support them with another deep striking squad.
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Jul 9, 2007 7:01:54 GMT -5
or i can equip suicide squads with plasma guns.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2007 7:43:45 GMT -5
I dont think any units are expendable in IG. Even conscripts have useful purposes opposed to dying for no reason or gain.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jul 9, 2007 14:11:38 GMT -5
though the sad thing is that sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't be a better general if I was more heartless in my tactics - nid players have it easy, they just have a bunch of nameless monsters; my guardsmen and I have battled so many times I have stories for all my squads and it's hard to lose one so where a nid player can commit obscene attrocities to his units that end in a self imposed semi-genocide of his own troops just to achieve an objective, I tend to be too queasy to do something like that. I guess that's what makes us humans and them bugs though huh?
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Post by Mabus on Jul 10, 2007 10:40:27 GMT -5
Your too much of a nice guy Turtle! Very noble of you! I must say I haven't really got many issues from a moral point of view on suicide squads. I play DK, they're nuts! they don't care if they live or die!
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Jul 11, 2007 14:48:30 GMT -5
besides, with countless thousands of men being killed throughout the imperium getting killed every day who's gonna miss a guardsman.
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Post by twerd on Jul 12, 2007 4:43:11 GMT -5
hey tutrle we don't like seeing humans being rip to shreds by orks. besides we can claim a morale victory the suring guardsmen have bough enough time for fleeing citzens to be evacuated.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 5:44:09 GMT -5
DK?
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Post by Mabus on Jul 16, 2007 10:42:29 GMT -5
Death korps of Krieg.
Oh, Twerd, I have a quotation for you. In the Immortal words of Sir Winston Churchill on the 4rth of June 1940. "Wars are not won by evacuations"
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Post by twerd on Jul 17, 2007 5:08:13 GMT -5
i agree with you but are you sugesting that imperial citizens die becuase there P.D.F can't fight off invasions if so i'd hate to have you as a leader.
what's with the joesf gobbles quotation
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Post by Commissar on Jul 17, 2007 12:05:05 GMT -5
Ah, but having citizens stand their ground is both there for morale and resistance. The soldiers would know what they are fighting for and there are always partisan movements, it makes sense. Look at what happened at stalingrad, the citizens were forbidden to cross the volga for many reasons, but it raised the troops' morale.
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Post by syphon on Jul 17, 2007 14:13:25 GMT -5
Turtle, the Tactica Imperium is not so much a collection of rules, just a ...guideline (1 movie trivia point if you can guess the movie referred to!) There should be rules for REAL suicide squads, like those used in the war for Armageddon.
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Post by Commissar on Jul 18, 2007 13:08:41 GMT -5
Just wait for apocalypse. I'm sure there will be a 50 man suicide squad...all mechanized!
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Post by Mabus on Jul 18, 2007 14:17:11 GMT -5
My guys don't care if civilians die. They are fighting for the sake of the imperial creed and to be matyred. Oh, and the Joseph Geobbles quote. I just use it because I think it sounds cool and it is quite relevant to W.H.40k. I dunno, I just think it sounds cool!
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Post by Commissar on Jul 18, 2007 14:39:23 GMT -5
Ominous Goebbles...for some reason he reminds me of a 67 year old turkey... Anyways, suicide squads would work if they were an actual troop choice.
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