|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Mar 4, 2008 10:32:54 GMT -5
Hang on. I'm confused. Why do you guys want to move an imperial guard infantry squad? They are meant to sit still and blast away and not move throughout the game. You want mobile warfare, use Armoured fist squads or Storm troopers. as heavily steriotyped as his comment is, the man has a point. only break in this steriotype comes in the 'no heavy weapons in infantry squads but that's why i have heavy weapon squads' mentality. though I'd be looking at carapace armor at this point, but I digress.. As far as heavy stubbers in infantry squads goes, I personally feel it's MORE fluffy to have heavy stubbers in your grunt squads. I got the dark heresy book (40k RPG produced by black industries) and it describes how boltguns are passed down from generation to generation and if you can even get a bolt you're lucky unless you're super well connected. unless HEAVY bolters are more common (which seems just backwards - you'd think they were more rare), it just makes sense that heavy stubbers would be the IGs answer to the anti infantry machinegun that the heavy bolter currently fills. lately I've been having fun making 40k my own game and getting away from the rules where my friends and I agree that divergence is needed. as a result, our games have taken on a whole new level of enjoyment and coolness. I highly recommend just doing what you want as long as you can revise the rules to keep it fair. the ideas I really liked in this thread are: 1. heavy stubbers replacing heavy bolters 2. heavy stubbers being taken as special weapons (still counting as heavy and all that ofcourse). I may, at some point change out all my heavy bolters for heavy stubbers and multilasers just for fluffs sake (probably save me a few points too when me and my buddies revise the point costs for those guns as heavies in the squads!).
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Mar 4, 2008 18:02:14 GMT -5
Exactly why it makes more sense for stubbers, thanks turtleboy!
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Mar 4, 2008 19:55:03 GMT -5
I think multilasers weren't man portable at all. There was even some description about that somewhere on the net or in one of the books
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Mar 5, 2008 4:35:17 GMT -5
meh if they can tote around a lascannon...
|
|
angelusmortis
Captain
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. -Mark Twain
Posts: 210
|
Post by angelusmortis on Mar 5, 2008 5:59:39 GMT -5
I think multilasers weren't man portable at all. There was even some description about that somewhere on the net or in one of the books Been a long time, but IIRC, back in Rogue Trader days they were and they may of been in 2e as well. Been some time though, and my memory aint what it used to be. ;D
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Mar 5, 2008 12:23:50 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm pretty sure that I read something like that on some official site or in some GW publication. But GW tends to change its own fluff alot...
But if I had to bet why it wasn't man-portable, it was because it drained a lot of energy. Actually more than a lascannon which only used energy for one strong shot. But multilasers constantly need lots of energy to keep up high energy bolts with a certain strength.
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Mar 7, 2008 0:33:42 GMT -5
if you look at the sentinels, the power packs for the lascannon variant and the multilaser variant are the same size - the multilaser power packs just have 3 'cells' in the pack vs. the lascannon's single cell pack. ultimately, if i dropped a multilaser on a tripod with the lascannon cable bit running to a sentinel's triple cell power pack instead of the lascannon's one and used the heavy bolter rules for it, saying that in my corner of the galaxy, the multilasers were made to fire lower strength beams but the focusing lenses were higher quality, resulting in a greater ability to punch thru light armors (yay heavy bolter stats), then I doubt anyone would complain, cuz I've just made the guard more fluffy (in my opinion). bolt weapons of any form are rare and prized in the fluff, las-weapons not so much (with the exception of the lascannon). I'm not at all saying go be a fluff nazi and tear apart your heavy weapons, just saying that, getting back to the initial topic, heavy stubbers would be even MORE common than multilasers as they are based on autogun (slug thrower, solid projectile, ballistic, take your pick) technology. that's the true common mans weapon in 40k fluff. lasweapons are like a symbol of the professional soldier - you're special if you have a lasweapon. bolt weapons are .. well... imagine facing down someone with a boltpistol if you had your IG flak armor on. no save. that's scary. BANGSPLATTER. yeah. anyway ^_^ ... I say totally go for it with the heavy stubber as your squad heavy weapon. if you dont wanna hear cries of cheese, just replace the heavy weapon team option with your heavy stubber crew. charge yourself the same pts. as a heavy bolter if you're really massochistic and dont wanna hear complaints. no one's gonna whine if you're nerfing yourself you could always say that you're heavy stubber is using manstopper rounds so it uses the heavy bolter rules. that seems like a great fix.
|
|
|
Post by Mabus on Mar 8, 2008 15:02:42 GMT -5
Hmm, some of the points raised in this discussion have really interested me.
I agree, reading this post, I wanna get as many H.Stubbers as possible and to get hacking away converting every Heavy bolter in my army, but that's not realistic, GW haven't produced that many Heavy stuber totting models recently, I'd have to invest in some Necromuda guns.
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Mar 9, 2008 0:44:28 GMT -5
well, the vehicle sprue has a heavy stubber, ofcourse, but I have a feeling the heavy weapons crew tripod will look a bit 'thick' when you drop the gun on top. meh, details.
a necromunda mini laden IG army would be awesome.
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Mar 9, 2008 5:32:25 GMT -5
Only the normal man-portable bolt weapons should be supposed to be rare. I mean, they have to get the power of a bolt round in a rather small shell. While they have much more space in heavy bolter rounds. And just think of it, every new tank gets out of the factory with heavy bolters. If making heavy bolters and their ammo would be that difficult, they wouldn't equip every tank with it.
For the Multilaser, just look at the Necromunda rules. Weapon stats for the multilaser are availibe, but still no gang can use it, unless its vehicle mounted. And I mean look at the heavy weapons the houses have. I'm sure IG would like to have some of them as well (Heavy Plasma carried by one person). Lascannons, Heavy Plasmas, Heavy Bolters, but no Multilaser for infantry.
Lasweapons are trustworthy, but more than common. All those factory worlds are producing and shipping billions of it and its powerpacks, so you're everything but special if you have a lasgun. Heavy Stubber as heavy weapons choice would be nice, but manportable multilasers no.
|
|
|
Post by skizoman333 on Mar 10, 2008 12:38:01 GMT -5
But why would a heavy stubber have to be heavy. I can understand why a HB would be heavy, considering ud have to drag it, set it up and spot, but with a single, man portable LMG it would simply be a case of:Check mag, point, shoot. from wat i got from an army friend, the SAW doesnt take too much effort to lock and load, even when on the move.
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Mar 11, 2008 3:28:02 GMT -5
I can see your point about the heavier bolt weapons but in the dark heresy book it says that all bolt weapons are revered and ancient yadda yadda. after hyping them in general then it goes into the pistol, rifle and heavy versions of the gun.
I really see the current 'heavy bolters are the status quo' situation from more of a miniatures game aspect where GW probably wanted less different guns and more uniformity for ease and quickness of play - also to thematically tie together all the imperial armies.
if you look at the death korps stuff, there's a LOT more heavy stubbers making their appearance where classically you'd have seen a heavy bolter.
still I'm not gonna say 'omgosh you gotta go throw away your heavy bolters cuz they're not fluffy!' cuz a) it's your money and your army so do whatcha want (!!) and b ) I'm sure the 'poster child' IG armies are well funded and supplied enough to be professional and extremely well equipped with lascannons and heavy bolters and all that good stuff - if your army is one of these then you are well within your fluff limits to say 'yep we dont use that heavy stubber >junk< we use heavy bolters exclusively in our anti infantry heavy weapon role and damnit, we're proud of it!'
the imperium is vast - and theres a case for every scenario. i'm sure there's a planet that manufactures man-portable multilasers, just like there's a guard army in fullplate with hand axes and black powder pistols, just like there's a guard army that has got all the best gear and is like 'yup heavy bolters and lascannons are the standard fare.'
|
|