Infantry Platoon or Armored Fist

[Deleted]

I only have two troop slots filled (both 2squad platoons), and want a ready reserve. I like the SPEED of having the troops in a Chimera to quickly plug holes ... but adding a PLATOON opens more options.

Suggestions? Please provide the reasoning behind your choice.

[Deleted]

Hmmm...I would say combine your plattoons into 1 big plattoon and add 1 more squad (for a total of 5 squads) and then add an armored fist as your second troop choice.

[Deleted]

Really?

I would think that the advantage of the added HQ squad in three platoons would be a bigger deal than one MOB ... can you explain your reasoning? After-all, we CAN have 6 troop choices ...

I can see this giving you a better shot capturing and holding ONE objective during depoyment .. and getting to move ALL of that in the same turn.

[acolyte]

I prefer Platoons, more guns, if i want speed to plug holes i use grenadiers and chimera for a 'suped up' AF

[telecustom]

I always run big platoons. 4-5 squads per platoon. The Armoured Fist gives me a missile launcher/autocannon and a Multi-laser with a Hunter Killer. That is kind of hard to beat.

[Deleted]

I'm making an Armored Fist squad right now. Meltaguns, ahoy!

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

it really depends on what you want your infantry to do.

ultimately if you get an armored fist squad you have to realize that about 50% of the cost is getting you a chimera which, in my opinion, is a mediocre battlefield asset. it dishes out a fair amount of anti-infantry dakka which tends toward relative ineffectiveness when you look at 50% of your shots not hitting the mark, then more failing to wound, then more getting saved by the enemies armor. even with a heavy stubber I fail to do much with my chimerae I much prefer a hellhound for a 'light tank' as they can be devastatingly effective.

the reason i talk about armor is because when you buy an armored fist squad, you're really buying armor...and a few troops which dont typically do much.

if you've got 2 platoons of troops, you might consider a conscript platoon for that 'line filler' unit. position them in the center of your lines and they can generally hoof it where-ever they need to get to by the time the enemy makes it to your lines and your boys need reinforcing. they're WAY cheaper and, in my opinon, an effective 'back breaker' unit that can rush in on a good charge and bomb an enemy squad with so many attacks that it breaks the back of that enemy unit - allowing for a non-lethal tar pit where the melee stagnates and takes forever to resolve after that.

generally there's enough cover on an average table to support 2 minimum sized platoons in cover - another reason I like conscripts is that they can hang out behind cover completely and you're not losing a shooty asset. their low BS means that they generally are worthless in the shooting phase anyway so it actually is wisest to keep them completely hidden for as long as possible. this eases your 'available space' on the front line for more combat effective units.

a 3rd platoon, while good in theory, runs into the 'no where to deploy where i get a cover save' problem, so for that reason (unless you're making a city fight army and you and your buds almost always play in urban terrain or with dense dense random other terrain) I'd pass on the option.

don't get me wrong, armored fist isnt a bad way to go - you get a light tank with solid loadout of guns and you get a bit of move and shoot versatility in there while also being able to jump troops around a bit which can work to your advantage if you use it wisely too. I just think there's more effective options.

you have 2 troops - get other stuff in there. IGs strength is NOT in it's infantry - it's in our armor. hellhounds, leman russes, basilisks...this is the stuff that does the heavy lifting. you want to be able to drop 3 pie plates per round cuz one of them is going to direct hit and make you squeal as you ruin a ton of enemy heavy infantry or a vehicle of your opponents. that's how it gets done in the guard, sad to say.

the infantry is something that separates a good commander from a great commander. if you know how to use your infantry to pull its own weight and you can actually pull off the occasional win with infantry only armies then you know something that 95% of IG commanders don't. using your infantry like it's a weapon is something that alot of guard commanders give up on, but using tactics and strategy that incorporates your infantry formations into things is a smart commanders way. this is another reason i like conscripts - not only do they pack a whollup on the charge, but they tie whatever they smack into up for a long long time. this is a strategic asset that can be used to great advantage.

some say that chimerae have the mobility for flanking and all that and that's their strategic advantage but in my experience they move up a flank then take a shot to their overly weak side armor and just get turned into a tangle of ruined metal that serves as little more than a deathtrap for the troops inside.

I'd say the advantage to going with an extra platoon is the command squad - your heavy weapon squads MUST have officers (preferably a heroic senior with standard) nearby because they're akin to conscripts in the poor morale dept. I wish we could take voxes in heavy weapon squads at least!!

[Colonel Scipio]

I'm personaly in favour of platoons, because they do what the guard does best: advancing in 5" picket lines and shooting it out with the enemy and bringing them down in a hail of fire.

On paper, Armoured Fists are quite good (and I must confess I usualy take one) but relying on them at all is asking for a bit much; Guardsmen aren't designed to take the fight to the enemy and can often end up getting squashed by simple Tactical Sqauds.

[Deleted]

Maybe this would help .. here's what I have in the Company:

HQ: HQ squad, missile team, las team, tx mortar, sentinel

ELITE: Ogryns, Ratlings, Thudd Gun

FA: 4x Sentinels

TROOP: 2x Inf Platoons (2 squads each)

HEAVY: 2x Basilisk, 1x Demolisher

I usually deploy my arty in barrage levels, infantry on guard positions for defence/counter attack, etc. with Ogryns, ratlings, demolisher and sentinels as probers.

I guess you could call my strategy as defence in depth ... but I like to keep my options open. Suggestions?

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I hate to admit that colneher is really on to something but it seems like standard issue guard infantry is really designed to be a static 'sit in cover and form a main battle line' type entity that serves it's main purpose in keeping stuff away from your tanks as they shell/bombard the enemy.

[Deleted]

Maybe that is why reports show the Emperium crumbling. PDF's seem to be the mainstay ... and in a way, it makes sense for the IG to be the defense force and the Marines (with all the fluff) are the aggressor force.

I will say this, in most games, my opponent never could say all I did was sit still and make him come to me. I have found I can position defences with arty, mobilize witht the sentinels and demolisher ... and then push to exploit a hole.

[Cadian 117]

I play tau:do the math. I have to move otherwise Ill get sluaghtered by long range fire. I vote for platoon. More options.

[Deleted]

I usually don't pack armoured fist squads, as infantry generally only deliver the goods in clusters of 30+ where the rapid fire flashlights can really kick in. If I take a chimmie, its generally in support of something more substantial, like CC command HQ, vets squad or Stormies. And usually its "precious cargo" being flanked by Hellhounds.

However...

The Chimera Charge Bluff

Buy empty Chimmies as a tank screen for your hellhounds... buy one for the Command squad, one for each vet and storm troopers squad and then just don't deploy in them... charge of the chimmie brigade!!

You will be stunned how much fire power some players throw at a chimera when "escorted" by hellhounds. A psychological trick that works like this...

Thought Number 1: There's a lot of fire power escorting those rubbish transports...
Thought number 2: It must be carrying something good, where's it going?
Thought number 3: I better stop it!

They usually do, but its a cheap bluff (80 pts each) to get your hellhounds in range.

[Deleted]

SO the answer is anything (Grenadiers, vets, conscripts, Orgryns) but Armoured Fist ... with all the "Armoured" potential of a cadbury's cream egg ... and the effectiveness of a very small baby "Fist" (with slightly scratchy baby nails).

Now if armoured fist could be a combination of vets and special weapons squads - they be worth a troops choice.

[Deleted]

Sorry to go on... bu the Kremlin used to deploy armoured fist type units alongside the T34's. The battle of Kursk is the most famous example of this. The troops would run in alongside the tanks, benefiting from the confusion/dust/popped smoke etc and poke flamers down the portholes and demolition charges beneath the stugs, panzers and tigers. This could be easily accomplised by deploying special weapon teams with meltas and demolition charges in chimmies.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

that real life example is some pretty smart strategy. not sure how well it'd translate into 40k terms but it does have merit.

[Rolling Thunder]

Yup. Plus, with a chimera you can useit as a fire shield for your infantry when they get to the objective.

But in assault terms, two IG squads will cripple a single space marine squad. If they get the charge, anyways. Sheer weight of numbers canbe a space marine's bane.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

my initial impression of armored fist squads was this:

my house is a raging inferno of death as it goes up in flames, and I need to put out the fire so I run up and throw a teacup of water into the blaze.

I can see armored fists going well in supporting a combined offensive that requires crossing an open space to take an objective where ample cover saves can be had.

that being said, I'm interested to hear what colneher (the original poster) has to say regarding what else he has that'll be moving forward. if it's basically nothing, I would advise the infantry platoon.

[Deleted]

The best estimates were that the "armoured fist" troopers destoryed as many tanks as the T34's. Obviously survival rates weren't the best for these guys.

[Deleted]

It's a shame that the W40k rules don't have more combination moves between tanks and troops. Why doesn't "popped smoke" provide wider cover saves...? I realise that would worry a lot of individuals (especially if it offered a 5+ cover save) with Guard facing down CC troops, but it would be more realistic, and encourage the use of combined tactics ... using artillery, vehicles and troops in close combination.

[Deleted]

Oooo I found a use for Armoured fist. Using up the secondary troops slot in a small (1000pt) battle when you want to focus on fire power - oh no ... wait ... conscripts are cheaper?

[Rolling Thunder]

Yah. 50 conscripts= 200pts. Armoured fist+ transport= 130pts.

Depends what you need doing. If you're lacking mobility and need to grab an objective, then an AF squad in a chimera behind some LOS blocking terrain (dozer blade included, obviously) can do a 'daring dash' tactic to break through the weakened enemy and grab or at least contest an objective.

[Deleted]

Forward advancing troops consist of Ogryns, Sentinels and a Demolisher ... my platoons leapfrog squads if I can crack a hole safe enough for them to advance to cover. I have had two games with them ... Against Tyranids, we hunkered down and prayed. Against Inquisition, we hammered them with arty and were able to push forward to take an objective. I hate sitting on my haunches .. but it's what we appear to be best at.

Once I finish my 2nd bassie and two more ogryns, I am going to build 4 sentinels ...

[Count Elakor]

AF are only realy usefull for bluff or objectives, but if you want one i wil not tell you they suck.
I ususaly use platons with HW as a sheild wall for my armour, and my HH and sentinel to take the figth to the enemy, i use grenadiers for the forward moving innfantery(mostly inn chimeras) and i find it winning, chimeras can hold an objective with hull-down and suport.

[acolyte]

the ONLY reason to take AF IMO is to give your chimera a lascannon/ML. otherwise, take stormies in chimera instead, harder, hurt more and alot cooler (nades standard too)