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Post by Melissia on May 15, 2010 23:13:52 GMT -5
Anyway, on to matters that matter.
Updated post nine of the first page with the various information, so you can get a look at the Ecclesiarchal troops we have thus far.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 15, 2010 23:23:05 GMT -5
It may be more than a bit unbalanced, but I feel like sisters would take a baneblade chassis, stick some flamestorms and an inferno cannon or two on it, and call it their apoc superheavy.
Maybe no transport capacity, and one less structure point to balance, as it's using all that extra space for fuel drums?
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Post by Melissia on May 15, 2010 23:28:24 GMT -5
IF I am to do that, it would be an Apoc. datafax. I'm not doing Apoc. datafaxes until everything else in the codex is done. EVERYTHING else, including the three remaining special characters, heirophants, arco-flagellants, and Planetstrike strategems.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 15, 2010 23:47:14 GMT -5
Fair, and understandable. Just putting the idea out there.
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 0:11:07 GMT -5
Okay so... arco-flagellants.
At the moment, they're not necessarily actually all that BAD.... they're just a bit overpriced I think. So the two options are to reduce their price (a full squad of six Arco-Flagellants costs just shy of a full Battle Sister Squad), or to buff them to make the mworth their hefty pricetag.
My idea on the latter would be to add a rule that, while a High Priest(ess) remains on on the field, they can be directed at any unit within assault range, rather than just the closest one.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 16, 2010 0:55:02 GMT -5
I'd like to see them be able to start unactivated in a dedicated transport. Then once they're activated, they're Dangerous to Know. I'd also like to see them get 2 +d3 attacks, to avoid buffing them while making them a bit more stable, and also to bring them into 5th a bit. Also change the implant injectors so that each AF doesn't need its own roll for attacks, but just have it done as a squad. Rolling individually is annoying.
I'd be willing to pay a bit more for them, if they also got a fluff-reasonable FNP tacked on there...
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 10:16:03 GMT -5
You are giving this army everything: No I'm not, you're just spazzing out and looking for a reason to female dog about everything. 1: There is no difference in numbers than in second edition C:SoB , or third edition C:WH. More than Marines, less than Guard, exactly as they are depicted, exactly as they are intended.2: Good assault units, yes. Excellent assault units? That has yet to be proven. All of them are S3/T3, making them vulnerable to imperial guard power fists, nevermind Marine power fists, thunder hammers, relic blades, and so on. Without special equipment, they aren't as able to cause as many wounds as Orks or MEQ, either. That special equipment must be purchased, adding on to the cost of the unit. 3: This subject has already been argued to death, and it is not up for debate. Deal with it, and quit your *****ing already. All armies except for Eldar have their powerful and often quite heavy tanks in some form or other. The Sister are getting theirs, period. There is no more discussion to be had. 4: This subject has already been argued to death, and it is not up for discussion again. Games Workshop gave the Sisters the statlines I'm using right now. So that makes you wrong even by your own definition. You're wrong, quit *****ing. 5: They don't HAVE a standing army, because they ARE the standing army.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 16, 2010 11:50:55 GMT -5
It also might be important to note that the Adeptas Sororitas includes more than the battle sisters. The ones that are not running around, shooting stuff and wearing power armor, probably do not have the nice battle sister statline. But we're only concerned with the ones that have some martial training, and thus would be put on a tabletop.
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 13:26:38 GMT -5
Right, the Sisters Hospitalier are probably more common than the Battle Sisters, if only because they don't require power armor. They're also quite popular amongst the Imperium, almost being given an angelic and saintly reputation for their devotion to healing. And the Sisters Famulous are needed to keep an eye on the noble houses and the Navis Nobilitae. The Sisters Dialogous are probably not as common, but they're quite in demand by the Inquisition and Administratum for their scholarly abilities and knowledge of various languages and the nature of linguistics (they are hinted at getting closer to cracking Binary than any other Imperial intelligence organization for example).
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 13:43:40 GMT -5
Someone in the Spoony Experiment's 40k thread suggested giving Nightflame Veterans artificer armor. What do y'all think, should that be done, and if it should, should it increase their price? Should it be an upgrade?
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 16, 2010 13:55:29 GMT -5
Someone in the Spoony Experiment's 40k thread suggested giving Nightflame Veterans artificer armor. What do y'all think, should that be done, and if it should, should it increase their price? Should it be an upgrade? Well, they are more insane than even regular Battle Sisters, so I think the Soriotias might be edgy about giving them expensive and advanced armour.
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 13:56:35 GMT -5
Read the reworked fluff. They're basically professional veterans now, whom believe that the best way to kill heretics is up close and without warning.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 16, 2010 14:11:25 GMT -5
I'd say no, but giving them a light inv. save would be a better option anyway.
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 14:34:52 GMT -5
Define "light"... refractor shield? Rosarius?
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 16, 2010 16:24:14 GMT -5
The same mass-producible shield they give to IG commanders. It'd be a 5++.
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 17:00:23 GMT -5
Right, so Refractor Fields.
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 17:11:40 GMT -5
Faithful Citizens now provide 1 Faith Point, but cannot use Acts of Faith.
Zealots can use Acts of Faith and provide 1 Faith Point as well,, but I'm reducing their WS to 3. Adjusted Zealot cost to match, they are now 85 points to start out with, and 7 points for each Zealot after that.
Nightflame Veterans now have a 5++ invulnerable save. Added Immolators and Rhinos to their list of transports, added a note that they cannot infiltrate with a transport.
The Militia Armored Van has been renamed to Militia Armored Transport (so people will finally shut up about the goddamned semantics), and is reduced in cost by five points and armor to 10/10/10 to better match the fluff of an uparmored civilian transport.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 16, 2010 19:23:21 GMT -5
Honestly, I see no reason for giving them refractor fields, or artificer armour while we're at it. Let's take a look at Marines here in comparison, since they tend to have more troops with Inv saves then IG. The Nightflame sisters are roughly analogous to Sternguard. They're veterans who do their best work within 12in of an enemy unit. Sternguard don't get an Inv save. In fact, of all the "Standard" Imperial Armies (i.e. Not Grey Knights), there are only three units I know of where a whole squad can take an Inv save in addition to regular armour save. Two of those are Terminator units, and the third is Vanguard, which makes you pay through the nose to make them worth while (not to mention actually giving them that Inv save), and are thus pretty much worthless.
Refractor fields are reserved for the wealthy, the powerful, and the important. They aren't handed out to whole squads of line infantry. Also, by including that, you drive the cost of the unit up, making more of a pricey one shot gimmick, like Vanguard, then a unit that's actually competitive with the other options you can take. I say leave them as is.
Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 16, 2010 19:35:58 GMT -5
Okay, I can agree with taht argument. Don't want to make them too expensive...
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Post by Hetfiltrator on May 18, 2010 16:51:22 GMT -5
I like your work on these.
My question is about zealots. Would their sargeant guy/gal really be able to have a Braiser of holy fire? Maybe I'm not understanding what it actually is but would you put something that sounds that important in the hands of someone who is hired?
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Post by Melissia on May 18, 2010 17:47:42 GMT -5
Bazically it's like a combiflamer, but instead of a bolter, it's a mace.
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Post by Melissia on May 19, 2010 9:59:10 GMT -5
On Penitent Engines:
I'm pondering removing the rule and giving them T6, another wound, and make it so that a single attack can only cause one wound (mostly applicable to Daemonhunters force weapons which remove all wounds, and certain wargears/powers which cause each wound to count as two), and leave it at that. Maybe reducing the price to go along with it.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on May 19, 2010 13:59:26 GMT -5
On Penitent Engines: I'm pondering removing the rule and giving them T6, another wound, and make it so that a single attack can only cause one wound (mostly applicable to Daemonhunters force weapons which remove all wounds, and certain wargears/powers which cause each wound to count as two), and leave it at that. Maybe reducing the price to go along with it. What is your thinking behind this?
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Post by Melissia on May 19, 2010 14:07:37 GMT -5
Penitent Engines are (as far as I can tell) driven as much, if not more, by the machine than the "rider", that poor schmuck effectively tied to the front of it pumped full of drugs and waiting to die.
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Post by Hetfiltrator on May 19, 2010 21:22:58 GMT -5
Bazically it's like a combiflamer, but instead of a bolter, it's a mace. ....But is it an important artifact or something? Valuable? Would they be disheartened if it were broken/stolen? Would they leave it in the hands of a MERE zealot. I hope I'm understanding this right but Zealots seem rather low on the proverbial food chain. Also about the Pentient Engines I like the idea. Toughness 7 IMO but it is a cool idea! ;D
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