|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 15, 2011 19:30:08 GMT -5
SW is good, except one thing really annoys me about it: the disadvantages of sagas. There really should be some compulsion to complete your saga, maybe a kill point lost if you fail or something. The way it is now too many people completely ignore failing them.
|
|
|
Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 15, 2011 19:37:01 GMT -5
Sighed, and as I belive: Mat Ward (Blood Angels) Phil kelly (Orks, Necrons and Elder if memory surves right) Huh, turns out a lot of people are credited as writting the Necron codex... but yeah, Phil was one of them.
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 15, 2011 19:40:13 GMT -5
Adam Selene: Have to be quicker on the draw, and credit goes to RT to modding my post to what it says now. Trickstick: Agreed, that was my big gripe when I first heard about it. If they had just set it up to be a boost without any "Requirement", then it would have been fine, but yeah, I would like to see some motive to actually follow through on the Saga. Ymmot (M.I.A): I dunno, I don't mind some of it like the Descent of Angels, and the Sanguinary Guard. Those fit the theme. It's the random stuff like the DSing Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, and cheaper Devs that annoy me. There's no real reason why BA should have them as opposed to, say, Raven Guard or Iron Hands. Personally, I think only BT and SWs really warrant a different Codex, but that's just me. Reds
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 15, 2011 19:45:23 GMT -5
DSing land raiders I have no problem with. How hard is it to imagine that BA take a lot more risks with their thunderhawk transporters?
I think if the opponent fails their saga, you should simply make fun of their "big girly boy" characters. In a jovial way of course.
|
|
|
Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 15, 2011 19:53:33 GMT -5
Ok yeah, cheaper devs for BA does not make a whole lot of sense...
They got more expensive rhinos though, all of their vehicles are more expensive, but the rhino really sticks out, being that it doesn't really benefit from the lucifer engines...
They switched the prices of things around to make it seem balanced or something, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 15, 2011 20:01:30 GMT -5
Actually, I've seen nasty things done with fast Rhinos. It's the ability to get a pair of meltas on your doorstep and shooting by turn 2 that can really hurt. As for the DSing Land Raiders, I think it's a bit silly conceptually, but why BA? Why not all marines, or say Black Templars, who A) are famous for making massive armoured assaults, and B) making massive orbital landings? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to do it since it combines their two great loves? "Fast" and "Scout" on a Baal also makes no sense whatsoever, but that's a different gripe.
I just feel they got a lot of stuff that was in the BA book only because Ward or someone else hadn't thought of it in time for it to be in the regular SM codex, and it irks me, since the Codex should be about what makes the Blood Angels the chapter they are, not just "Here's a bunch of extra stuff we thought of that we're going to shove in here". If they're going to do that, why not just release a base SM Codex, then a supplement with special units for all the variant chapters?
Reds
|
|
|
Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 15, 2011 20:07:24 GMT -5
Darn, I forget that thing has a top hatch sometimes...
and that non-skimmer fast vehicles can move flat out.
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 15, 2011 20:10:29 GMT -5
Darn, I forget that thing has a top hatch sometimes... and that non-skimmer fast vehicles can move flat out. Yeah, getting 18in, smoking, then going 12 and firing Meltas is the most popular tactic I see with them, usually three Rhinos supported by some Lasbacks following a bit slower behind. Reds
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 15, 2011 20:12:46 GMT -5
Darn, I forget that thing has a top hatch sometimes... and that non-skimmer fast vehicles can move flat out. Yeah, getting 18in, smoking, then going 12 and firing Meltas is the most popular tactic I see with them, usually three Rhinos supported by some Lasbacks following a bit slower behind. Reds That is moving 12", disembarking and firing right? That is probably what you meant but wasn't sure. Fast vehicles don't mean passengers can fire at cruising speed.
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 15, 2011 20:19:02 GMT -5
Trickstick: Yup, sorry, should have been more clear. I've been on the receiving end of Sternguard with Combi-Meltas doing that more than once. That's why my Russes hide in buildings now. Reds
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 15, 2011 20:25:19 GMT -5
No prob reds, i was 99% sure that was what you meant.
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 16, 2011 12:49:55 GMT -5
If they try that, I'm going to bust out the old WDs with alternate doctrines in them and use them in my list. Reds I have only one thing to say to this. Hail Caesar.
|
|
|
Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Feb 16, 2011 13:09:18 GMT -5
If they try that, I'm going to bust out the old WDs with alternate doctrines in them and use them in my list. Reds I have only one thing to say to this. Hail Caesar. *Homer Simpson voice* "Mmmm... Caesar salad..." *Drools* Ah, but were the alternate doctrines listed as official or "Chapter Approved"? I honestly won't be surprised if GW does give the Space Guppy to other chapters besides the Blood Angels, their successors, and the Grey Knights. When has GW ever passed up the opportunity to grab a crapton more money from the Space Marine fanbase?
|
|
|
Post by Soap on Feb 16, 2011 16:38:28 GMT -5
I still dont get what GW where thinking by not making it SM wide in the first place? Baffles me!
Reds: I actually agree that SM should have a base codex, then each chapter having extra rules rather than their own 'Dex. But hey, suppose extra codex books on the shelves = more money for GW.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Feb 16, 2011 17:24:15 GMT -5
I think GW are playing an extremely clever game by not immediately releasing the space guppy to all chapters. What they are doing it is making it an elite and selective vehicle, available to those armies that are currently high profile and powerful in a unique way, this is making the guppy very, very desirable to the endless swarms of SM players who don't have access to it. When they do (and they will) release it for all chapters to use, it will give a truck load of people wanting what they can't have, the opportunity to have what they can't have, thus increasing sales figures in those first sugar and excitement fuelled days exponentially.
It is only once the cold light of dawn sets in that the slow realisation will creep over the poor customers; they have spent a large amount of money on something that now dictates the way they must play their force and looks like somebody stepped on kermit the frogs offspring and tried to hide the fact by shoving a box down it's throat to simulate life. The cycle is complete, the hobbyist ends up poorer in all aspects and the GW marketing team move one step closer to usurping Satan's rule, the diabolical swines.
Paradill
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 16, 2011 18:55:33 GMT -5
You know that the simplest explanation is just that the model wasn't thought of until the wolves codex was too far along publishing, and they just added it to the first marine codex that was available? Seems a lot simpler than a "genius buisness plan". It will probably be in all the future marine codexes anyway, with some WD thing as a stopgap.
We will probably get a marine codex soon anyway, possibly even a dark angels. That just leaves the wolves walking out in the cold, but I suppose they are used to icy conditions anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Feb 16, 2011 19:01:55 GMT -5
If you think that a large, multi-national business like GW would just let things fall to chance, then I'm afraid you haven't experienced much of the business sector. The simplest explanation, yes, but not always the correct one. Marketing departments come up with strategies which take into account everything from consumer socio-economic classes up to ensuring the mood of the customer is just right at the time of release/opening. I know that my company doesn't let things fall to chance, and while we are very different to what GW do, I think it's naive to think such a large business doesn't think these things through.
Paradill
|
|
|
Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Feb 16, 2011 19:04:22 GMT -5
I still dont get what GW where thinking by not making it SM wide in the first place? Baffles me! Reds: I actually agree that SM should have a base codex, then each chapter having extra rules rather than their own 'Dex. But hey, suppose extra codex books on the shelves = more money for GW. I'm guessing that Ward came up with the idea after he wrote the Smurf codex, but it didn't get put into the Space Wolves' codex since they don't like flying and junk, so it got put into the Blood Angels codex. I wonder if the Wolves will have access to it if it goes Marine wide? I'm still not going to by the Space Guppy.
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 16, 2011 19:10:33 GMT -5
Yes, the marketing departments do a lot of work, but they can't market something that doesn't exsist.
Whoever came up with the idea for the stormraven, say Matthew Ward or someone at the design studio, could have done so when it was too late for the wolves codex. Do you think that the "powers that be" would leave such a money making product out of the wolves codex, unless it would mean more money lost by a "stop press" and reprint?
It is all about the money, and wolves having the stormraven would surely mean more money. That is unless GW think that a lot of people will buy another army just because it has a stormraven in it.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Feb 16, 2011 19:15:42 GMT -5
Lots of people getting confused between "buy" and "by" in this thread..
Yes, I concede that both our views are possibilities, as I lean towards the conspiracists side of life, I wont press the point further. It's still ugly as sin and overly powered though.
Paradill
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 16, 2011 19:28:21 GMT -5
Lots of people getting confused between "buy" and "by" in this thread.. Ack, how could I have made such a basic mistake? I'm going to go and put my fingers in an Excruciator to teach them a lesson. Yes, I concede that both our views are possibilities, as I lean towards the conspiracists side of life, I wont press the point further. It's still ugly as sin and overly powered though. Paradill I'll admit that it is all conjecture, we shall never know the inner workings of the Inquisition, erm, I mean Games Workshop. Either of us could just as easily be right, or both wrong and it turns out they rolled a dice for it. I still think that it is a nice model, and no more overpowered than vendetta is.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Feb 16, 2011 19:40:32 GMT -5
It's not over powered, just overly powered, I know it's a fine distinction but there are a couple of things I think didn't need adding. The 'ceramite plating' is simply ridiculous, as an all round AV 12 fast skimmer, what is the point of this rule? It has more than enough protection as it is. The "power of the machine spirit" rule seems to be a futile attempt to tie the SR and LR together in some sort of convoluted STC correlation exercise, it's not something that the SR needed to be a worth while vehicle.
Paradill
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 16, 2011 19:47:27 GMT -5
I can see why they gave it the plating, without it many people would be too afraid to get in close to enemies. It lets them get in close, like they should. POTMS is a bit odd though, I used to like it when it was BS2. I think that the marines are starting to get into the realms of AI use. Who fancies purging Baal of techno heretics?
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Feb 16, 2011 20:01:33 GMT -5
But with the assault ramp, getting close to the enemy isn't going to be too scary, if you're space guppy is being threatened by something at such close range, either your opponents don't understand target priority, as otherwise it wouldn't get that close, or you aren't using your units to assault the right unit at the weakest part of the opposing force, which is what any competent commander would use the guppy for.
Paradill
|
|