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Post by F.K.M on Jan 7, 2011 15:21:17 GMT -5
Today i have an idea for my my skaven being 'skavenslaves of endless doom'. This may sound typical but wait to hear it. First you take squads of 80 skavenslaves with spears (forget the shields as the armor will be negated most of the time and forget slings as their BS is so bad that when negative modifiers start hitting you're barely doing anything anyway). So basically you have 3 units of 80 skavenslaves each totally to about 240 skavenslaves. Then you take a warlord with leadership 7 in the back to give his inspiring presence to the units and the skavenslaves strength in numbers allows the 3 ranks to give them leadership 10. Wait it gets better! The fact they have 8 ranks means they're almost always steadfast unless flanked and if you take a chieftain with a BSB their leadership of 10 is re-rollable. Even if flanked the skavenslaves will still use the general's leadership of 7 and it's still re-rollable but no steadfast so be careful that your flanks are somewhat protected by hard hitting possibly unbreakable units like the plague furnace with plague monks. Basically this loadout of skavenslaves costs a little over 600 pts for all the skavenslaves with spears and with maybe 10 more points for a unit champion, musician, standard if you even care to use it. Then it takes about 90 pts for a warlord and 45 pts for a chieftain and possibly another 20-25 pts for his battle standard. About 750 pts for all this is well worth it in my opinion esp. when this is only half of your points being used. Let's see a gunline take this force down . Not to mention if you get a flank off into your enemy's squad which will inevitably be tied up with skavenslaves unless you really fail at leadership rolls in which case you should step outside the store and commit seppuku in the middle of the mall or right outside the store's doors. Even funnier skavenslaves don't cause panic checks in normal units just other skavenslaves so your other units are safe. You also get about 8-10 str 3 auto-hits from an enemy squad should you break from combat. If you position the 3 huge blocks of skavenslaves correctly any enemies trying to flank the front unit will get flanked all lose their ranks and be unable to disrupt your front unit of slaves. At least i think that's how it works. The one huge problem with getting this force is that if you use clanrats and buy the 33 dollar box sets of 20 then you have to get about 400 dollars worth of models just based around 750 pts! It's too bad as i'd really like to try this out but i'm really lacking those kinds of funds. I suppose i could use my current 40 clanrats but then i'd still need another 200 still costing over 330 dollars! For one insane army it's very cost heavy. Also the fatal flaw of being flanked or eventually losing steadfast to some more badass unit doesn't make me too happy either. Still i think it'd be a really badass list to take with whatever else you've got. They'd overwhelm just about everything.
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Post by Lt. Erwin on Jan 7, 2011 17:49:51 GMT -5
You can probably get Skaven pretty cheap buying them from people who got Island of Blood and don't play them. Heck, I've been meaning to get it, I'll mail you everything Skaven in the box for $40, shipping included (don't expect it to be too aweful well packaged though.) Incidentally, would anyone be interesting in buying some IoB High Elves?
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Post by F.K.M on Jan 7, 2011 19:34:34 GMT -5
Eh i might. I live all the way in michigan though and i've never done an online purchase with anybody before. The problem is currently i don't have the money. I spent a little over 50 dollars to reserve a hellpit abomination. It's gonna be sweet even if high elves are still overpowered and dwarf cannons might still wreck it. Still it will wreck everything else it hits close combat with. Why would you get an island of blood set if you're just going to sell everything? Do you play high elves but just don't like everything in the box? It's a bit odd to say.
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Post by Laughing Man on Jan 8, 2011 16:07:35 GMT -5
Mortars and Helstorm rocket batteries.
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Ferrum
Guardsman
Science!
Posts: 91
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Post by Ferrum on Jan 8, 2011 16:57:27 GMT -5
Bloodknights with a lord with red fury, and blood drinker. Nom nom nom. Lore of death on your lord, suddenly your slaves are scared!
What points limit would this list be for? 750?
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Post by F.K.M on Jan 8, 2011 17:25:15 GMT -5
As far as what i'm doing today i've only been sleeping really. It's almost 5 pm and i haven't eaten yet today (sad i know). I'm looking forward to that hellpit abomination i'll be getting. My skaven tactics with the chieftain with BSB of the horned rat standard with the stormvermin unit using the terror causing banner mixed with the skavenslave mass with BSB and general will prove deadly. The plague furnace with the plague monks using plague banner will also prove disgusting and finally the plague censers can also prove deadly esp. in the flank even if i need to flank ranked units with other ranked units. The couple rat ogres won't do much and the doomwheel will prove somewhat useful if i move it right and then flank charge an enemy which is clusterfornicateed and tar-pitted with slaves. I could also use the great movement of my doomwheel to flank charge a unit trying to charge the flanks of my slaves which are flanking another unit. It would be useful because then i could get them to possibly move away from the my slaves they were planning on flanking. I could also use gutter runners with slings and poisoned attacks for fun. If you take 15 of them with slings and poisoned on average 5 hits auto-wound easily giving you the chance to kill monsters even in a stand and shoot reaction. Not to mention if charged they'd most likely strike first and then kill said monsters in CC before anything more than impact hits go off. I could also kill artillery with burrowed gutter runners. Really pretty much every unit in my army is going to have a use. For some strange reason i don't use magic much anymore. I've come up with some pretty sick combos though. I almost feel like my skaven army will be unstoppable. There are a few really weak points with lynchpins in the plan though. Without my general in the middle being protected the slaves will have really poor leadership (about Ld 5 even if a BSB allows re-rolls). Not to mention if he dies that's a huge chunk of my force becoming vulnerable though admittedly it'd be hard to do. Another weakness in the army is i don't know how i'm going to fit the storm banner into this and it prevents a lot of shooting and flying (not that i care) but most importantly it fornicates up the cannons and war machines as well as weapons teams that don't roll to hit. If i don't take out warmachines fast the doomwheel will go down which isn't too big of a problem but it would own the plague furnace easily which is still somewhat of a big deal. However this is 3 separate things that can go wrong. The easiest one to destroy is the plague furnace and the hardest one to destroy and mess up is the warlord. I may have trouble placing him as he'll probably be with slaves. I normally wouldn't do that as it makes him more vulnerable but the stormvermin/BSB combo would make a real nasty unit. I suppose i could keep the warlord's slave unit in the back or just throw him in with something else. I'm not sure what i'd throw him into right now though. I suppose i could have another unit of stormvermin and just add him to it but i don't know if i can fit that into my points. Maybe i should just have 2 units of 20 stormvermin instead of 1 unit of 40. Eh i'll figure it out later. Ferrum: I don't know about that. I could also charge your blood knights first and i know how much cavalry and chariots hate that . Think of the doomwheel hitting into them and they have the vampire rule so you can't raise them en masse (i think). It could be their undoing but remember i still have a BSB, ranks for steadfast (even if they'd only be Ld 5) and then i have all those other units with frenzy or unbreakable not to mention a nasty as hell plague furnace which will not got sniped because you decided to take the lore of death. Even if you do try to take on my plague furnace or doomwheel you don't have anything which can kill it too easily. Btw some of these attacks are magical and if i take a hellpit against you i will easily give it warpstone spikes for 15 pts totaling up to 250 pts for it (warpstone spikes give magical attacks and magic resistance 1). The points limit for the slaves, warlord, chieftain (and his BSB) is around 750 to 800 pts. I will however keep this game up to maybe 2,000 pts. Expect to see a lot of plague monks which are unbreakable due to the plague furnace, the plague furnace and all those attacks and the plague banner they have. Then i have a terror causing unit with a BSB that makes every unit in 12" -1 Ld and re-rolls all leadership tests (ironically causing fear in your units sometimes). Admittedly it wouldn't hurt vampire counts and undead armies much. Then i have plague censer bearers which would kill a lot of guys as well. Also if you don't kill my leader then you'd better watch out that he doesn't duel you to death. If i kill your general it's down the toilet for you. It's the biggest problem of VC even if you have a special banner or special units or decent Ld. My army will probably include a hellpit, a doomwheel, 40 stormvermin (either one unit of 40 or two of 20), a chieftain BSB, a warlord, 240 slaves (3 80 man units), probably 40 plague monks (with a plague furnace, plague priest and plague banner) and 12 plague censer bearers. I'll take out the rat ogres as they'd be a waste probably. I will also place my leader behind other units so that he is safe from most harm. I don't know if all this would fit in 2,000 pts but probably not. I'm also thinking of using gutter runners with poisoned attacks and slings for mass monster and artillery killers. Not that that'd hurt you much. Might also give them smoke bombs in case things don't prove favorable. One more huge good thing for me about your army is it doesn't matter if i don't flank them. If i flank them they'll still probably have good leadership and all it will do is give me a flank or rear plus get rid of your ranks. Honestly it doesn't do much to you. What's good though is depending on how many guys you lose and how much you lose the combat by (admittedly slightly less if i don't flank) you will lose a lot of guys just from combat resolution . Plus your fear doesn't do much to slaves anyway as they have WS 2 so they're used to hitting poorly. If you're worth your salt you'll use helm of commandment probably and against slaves you'd still hit on 3's and they'd only just hit on 5's instead of 4's. Same goes for the fear except against your skeletons i'd still hit on 4's . Even if you use helm of commandment you can only use it on one unit in 12", i mostly have slaves anyway and this is all provided the wielder's unit isn't in melee also.
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Post by Lt. Erwin on Jan 8, 2011 18:00:29 GMT -5
Eh i might. I live all the way in michigan though and i've never done an online purchase with anybody before. The problem is currently i don't have the money. I spent a little over 50 dollars to reserve a hellpit abomination. It's gonna be sweet even if high elves are still overpowered and dwarf cannons might still wreck it. Still it will wreck everything else it hits close combat with. Why would you get an island of blood set if you're just going to sell everything? Do you play high elves but just don't like everything in the box? It's a bit odd to say. Yeah, I realized I really don't have any way to receive an online payment other than asking you to mail it to me, which we both know is the third dumbest thing you can do on the internet. Still, BattleWagon bits sells the Skavenslaves out of the box at $29.99 + S&H for 40, which is a slightly better deal.
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Post by F.K.M on Jan 8, 2011 18:10:56 GMT -5
Ya i was thinking of doing this based on our word and honor but we know skaven lack such things . I was thinking of having all these slaves with spears but that pricing is pretty cheap. Right now i see 40 clanrats for 30 dollars. That's about half the price of gamesworkshop and dear god may i actually say reasonable and do-able. That would cost me about 150 dollars i think if i just bought 200 and used my current clanrats. Is there any site with similar prices that offers clanrats with spears or am i out of luck or in need of finding out for myself? Ferrum: Even if you use the lore of death this is all considering if i let these spells off that damage or kill my general off. Just so you know i'm going to take skalm and the +5 ward save now just since you mentioned that . As for the terror or fear causing spell let's see you cause terror in a terror causing unit, several with frenzy and one with both frenzy and unbreakable. The few remaining units will on most occasions have leadership 10 and re-rollable due to BSB. I will not lie though the death spells could really devastate my tactic of using this leader. I suppose i could use multiple chieftains or maybe i should just use clanrats as they'd have leadership 8 anyway. However there are a few specific bad things to the lore of death. Firstly you need to be within 12" a lot of the time. Which i may not allow by having my leader in the back. However i may put my general unit in the front oddly enough against vampire counts and then charge you so you couldn't cast spells on them anymore. Considering all the ranks (steadfast), what i take in equipment, and your lack of good strong horde units i'd do ok esp. with my other stuff. I'll admit this loadout isn't great against vampire counts and possibly tomb kings but i did find a way to prevent being hurt from your spells. In fact i don't even need to use the warlord. I could use a plague priest as the general or a grey seer and have them up on their plague furnace or screaming bell. On a screaming bell you have a +4 ward save automatically and both the screaming bell and the plague furnace give +2 to your ward save due to magic resist and guess what you're using . Then all i have to do is equip either my army's +5 ward save for a total of a +3 ward save vs. magic or take equipment with a +4 ward save for an impressive +2 inv. save and then give me a +2 ward save vs. magic. At that point pretty much anything you throw at me will be pointless except maybe two spells. Actually i will do that and it fits everything much better. Sure i can only give Ld 9 to my units but it has an 18" range and they'll get their re-roll to leadership anyway. Admittedly other armies can blow the plague furnace up but that doesn't get rid of my ward save. I could only take 50 pts worth of wargear with the plague priest though so i have to be careful and suddenly i have to keep my plague priest alive now or at least until the slaves all kill themselves. Well i guess i'd have to get rid of the shadow magnet trinket now -1 to BS for shots at said unit but i can give the plague priest a +4 ward save with heavy armor for exactly 50 pts and +2 ward save vs. magic. Also unfortunately said plague priest must accept all challenges as he's fume addled. However i think this combo will work nicely.
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Post by Lt. Erwin on Jan 8, 2011 23:22:38 GMT -5
Well, you could probably get them pretty cheap if you make a habit of checking eBay and your local CraigsList, though it will most likely take a while.
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Post by F.K.M on Jan 10, 2011 1:51:27 GMT -5
Apparently i was talking to hetlan about my horde of slaves tactics with skaven and even he said he could use his leader with a piece of equipment that forces me to duel him. So basically i'm getting pissed with people finding tactics against this and eventually found another one against that. Sure you can kill my leader even if this tactic against me isn't as insane in my opinion as the lore of death. I'll just give my slave units a warlock engineer each to give them leadership 5 and then go up to leadership 8 for ranks and re-rollable with BSB. This is considering my general is dead. Btw warlock engineers are 15 pts a piece base (no upgrades or equipment). So i'm pretty sure i can handle 45 pts . Of course i'll probably give them wizard levels just to spice things up a bit assuming i can of course.
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Post by F.K.M on Jan 18, 2011 23:48:12 GMT -5
I'd hate to double post but lately i've been thinking of getting warpfire throwers and more likely poisoned wind mortars. The idea of poisoned wind mortars excites me when used en masse but unfortunately i don't have the mass units of clanrats or stormvermin to have many weapons teams. The good thing about poisoned wind mortars is they can even be deadly against knights or monsters or even artillery and hordes of warriors of chaos. Anything in the center of the template is wounded on a +4 with no armor save and everything touched by the rest of the template is wounded on a +5 with no armor save. All in all it's not bad at all. I think it'd totally be worth the points. Not to mention it has a 6"-24" range and it can fire on the move and uses the stone thrower rules.
The warpfire throwers are also really insane and cause panic checks. They are str 5 so they go through 2 armor and they inflict D3 wounds so they're even nasty against ogres and monsters.
I've got a hellpit abomination now and i can't wait to use it. Hopefully adding more large targets on the field will make killing them all that much harder with those stupid cannons.
I'm also thinking of whether i should use ikit claw soon or not. He's good but for 400 pts i think i'd save him for a bigger 3k point battle.
I really wanted to use tretch craventail but unfortunately if most of my force is going to be slaves and i won't have many stormvermin then getting a flank off with the stormvermin will be unlikely even with tretch inside it. Tretch's moving from unit to unit means you should use multiple units with him so that he can jump into one that's flanking the enemy.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 19, 2011 11:33:22 GMT -5
Calling this tactics is rather laughable.
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Post by F.K.M on Jan 19, 2011 14:25:18 GMT -5
Calling yourself a mod also is. I've seen better mods on 4chan.
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