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Post by treadiculous on Jan 15, 2011 5:21:55 GMT -5
Hi,
I was wondering what a change of rules for craft that use the flying stand would do. (such as Valks - and not a lot else at the moment, but with the stormraven coming, and probably more this will have more impact in the future...)
the rule change is as follows:
Skimmers with Flying bases that are not disembarking or embarking troops in next turn are Immune to Close Combat from basic infantry, Monsterous creatures and jump infantry are still able to affect the vehicle.
If a skimmer with flying base is either disembarking its transported troops at end of the turn or start of next turn, then it must be placed without the stand, may not fire, and is a valid target for close combat from any type of unit.
Likewise, if a skimmer with flying base intends to embnark troops then it must be placed without its base bext to the troops at the end of its previous movement if collecting at the start of next turn, or at the end of movement if collecting at end of movement phase.
I'm going to play test these rules for a little while, as while it creates a big disadvantage, it also allows for hiding the valk behind stuff while disembarking troops... it would also probably result in more models jumping out and hoping the grav shutes work!
let me know your thoughts!
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Post by emptyhat on Jan 15, 2011 8:36:40 GMT -5
What if terrain would allow you to place a flying base but didn't have room for the model?
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Post by Walrus on Jan 15, 2011 10:06:31 GMT -5
This isn't a bad idea, but what about things like the Dark Eldar raider, which is open topped?
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Post by treadiculous on Jan 15, 2011 10:57:00 GMT -5
- Emptyhat : If there's no room for the model, they either use grav shutes or cannot deploy would be my reckoning.
- Walrus : The Dark Eldar Ravager uses the skimmer base (I know I didn't specify this in my above message so you are completely in the right for pointing this out!) To be specific I mean the Black Base with Clear Stem used by forgeworld flyers and (so far) only the valkyrie / vendeta in 40k.
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Post by genilyenovick on Jan 17, 2011 1:26:43 GMT -5
It doesn't matter what size ore type of base its on. The rules for skimmers are clear about what can and can not happen in close combat. As well as the embarkation and disembarkation of any troops mounted in the vehicle. And the "flying" base doesn't effect the rules for Valks or Storm Raven's since they are both classified as Fast, Skimmers. Flyers have different rules but only in IA and Apoc. Other wise they are just skimmers with a base that allows for better model positioning in and around the vehicle.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jan 17, 2011 10:37:56 GMT -5
immediate problem would be that those of us who have these models would be keeping them flying in or near large formations of ground troops of our opponent. Disrupting and hearding them into kill zones with the safety of knowing that they couldn't attack and that most of their weapons wouldn't be able to touch them all the while of hoping for a missle to cause an explosion.
In the Apoc rules ground troops can't attack flyers, but in the 40k rules there are no flyers and the Valk Vendetta have been stripped of those abilities for the game. This is used to show the closed mindedness of how a military will utilize an asset in a given role.
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Post by treadiculous on Jan 17, 2011 19:05:12 GMT -5
Good Point!
To cure that, what if models can be placed on the base? - Its nice and flat and large enough for several!...
My mindset here is not to create an advantage, more to play a little closer to a sense of realism.. the valk / ven is clearly way above the heads of most infantry, so how do they hurt it?.. and for the valk to be able to fly, have models embark and then shoot from altitude all in one turn is quite an incredible feat!..
my other reasoning is that it gives me chance to pose all my models storming out the rear hatch and side doors which makes for a great photo!...
Please don't take this too seriously, as I trying to flush out a 'house rule' rather than an actual change to the very effective 5th edition.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jan 19, 2011 0:41:09 GMT -5
"more to play a little closer to a sense of realism"
Seriously??? in 40K?? Thanks for putting a smile on my face and a laugh in my day.
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Post by Deathkorpsman on Jan 19, 2011 7:42:13 GMT -5
It doesn't matter what size ore type of base its on. The rules for skimmers are clear about what can and can not happen in close combat. As well as the embarkation and disembarkation of any troops mounted in the vehicle. And the "flying" base doesn't effect the rules for Valks or Storm Raven's since they are both classified as Fast, Skimmers. Flyers have different rules but only in IA and Apoc. Other wise they are just skimmers with a base that allows for better model positioning in and around the vehicle. Well, this isn't entirely accurate since the FAQ made an exception to the skimmer rules for the Valk/Ven. Units deploy in/out measuring to the base of the model instead of the hull. A minor thing, but sets a precedent for tinkering with the rules of a model that GW kind of monkey-wrenched into regular 40k. |
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jan 21, 2011 0:24:39 GMT -5
Let's just hope that also means that any units attacking have to be in base contact as well.
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Post by Deathkorpsman on Jan 22, 2011 22:57:35 GMT -5
Nah, this clearly means it is entirely immune to H2H, since it otherwise follows the regular rules for skimmers. Hah. Probably the base works though.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jan 23, 2011 20:32:04 GMT -5
Nah, this clearly means it is entirely immune to H2H, since it otherwise follows the regular rules for skimmers. Hah. Probably the base works though. LOL |
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Post by coldash on Jan 24, 2011 14:04:07 GMT -5
Supposedly there are new rules coming out this summer for flyers. Hopefully these will be standard rules and not optional rules. It is stupid as hell when my flying above the tree top gun ships get knocked out of the sky by some guy with a sword. Praying they make the FW flying rules standard, tired of powerfists and sword beating on my 100kph 150 foot in the air gunships lol.
-At my store we play that flying base models are affected by... LOS as standard both for firing and being fired at.
-Movement and where the model is is based on the stand, not the model. Ie. a wing can be over terrain with no negative issues but if the base is then it rolls difficult terrain test as normal. -Assault is off of the base. So if you are in base to base with the flying stand then yes you are in B2B. If you happen to be under the tail then you are not.
I am pretty sure this is not standard but is the way we play.
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