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REALISM
Sept 16, 2011 8:16:13 GMT -5
Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2011 8:16:13 GMT -5
Kalis parents are coming over, and I#m not really gonna pay to take 20 unpainted minis to battle. Need more models before proper playtesting can be done! But we#ll get there, no rush.
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REALISM
Sept 16, 2011 9:18:39 GMT -5
Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2011 9:18:39 GMT -5
Right, gonna try and sort out some points costs as this is the main thing left to do. Also sorting out equipment allocations and such.
The currency you hire soldiers with is at the moment called "ducat", after the medieval coin used as a main trading currency all over Europe.
Equipment/soldier costs are very rough estimations based on my understanding of medieval economy. They're not meant to be balanced, but realistic. Failed realism will be corrected however (such as extremely expensive knights not crushing anything in their path except for massed axes/pikes).
Some costs also reflect the training needed to wield the equipment, or lack of training needed.
SOLDIERS:
Slave: 3 ducats Peasant: 6 ducats Militia: 10 ducats Men-at-arm: 18 ducats Sharpshooter: 25 ducats Sergeant: 30 ducats Knights: 30 duats
Your captain won't cost you anything using the basic profile, but then you purchase "traits" if you want to customise. And equipment of course.
WEAPONS:
Tool: 1 ducat Axe/mace: 3 ducats Sidesword: 5 ducats Longsword: 10 ducats Flailed mace: 5 ducats Spear: 2 ducats Polearm: 4 ducats Two-handed axe/mace: 4 ducats Halberd: 5 ducats Glaive: 4 ducats Pike: 4 ducats Two-handed sword: 12 ducats
RANGED WEAPONS:
Javelins: 3 ducats Self-bow: 4 ducats Longbow: 6 ducats Composite bow: 6 ducats Crossbow (horn/wood): 5 ducats Crossbow (winch): 6 ducats Arquebus: 7 ducats
SHIELDS:
Buckler: 2 ducats Shield: 2 ducats Parrying dagger: 2 ducats Pavise: 4 ducats
ARMOUR:
Haubergon: 10 ducats Brigandine: 8 ducats Hauberk: 15 ducats Munition plate: 16 ducats Plate and mail: 25 ducats Tempered steel cuirass: 35 ducats
Helmet: 2 ducats Leg guards: 6 ducats Arm guards: 6 ducats Leather jerkin: 3 ducats Gambeson: 3 ducats
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REALISM
Sept 16, 2011 14:57:27 GMT -5
Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 16, 2011 14:57:27 GMT -5
Hmm...
Drop the cost for gambesons and leather cuirasses - it's unlikely that these (being in effect peasant armour) would be so expensive. I also recommend dropping the cost of peasants, milita and removing slaves entirely. The nature of the feudal system (and of militia systems) means that these kinds of troops were relatively inexpensively raised.
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REALISM
Sept 19, 2011 2:00:26 GMT -5
Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 19, 2011 2:00:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback!
There's already a big gap in the cost between militia and soldiers, so I'm not happy to lower them further. Same with the gamb/leather, they're in comparison to other items very cheap as they are. I mainly modelled them along with the helmet costs, and a decent gamb or leather armour is likely going to be more expensive than a helmet for a militiaman.
Gonna update more costs today when I have the time.
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Gardelin
Guardsman
The Pantless One
And then, there were sallets.
Posts: 67
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REALISM
Sept 27, 2011 9:40:16 GMT -5
Post by Gardelin on Sept 27, 2011 9:40:16 GMT -5
Something I came to think about when seeing the weapon costs. What kind of sword does the profile represent? Because it seems like it's a longsword or some fancier arming sword. What about the shorter, cheaper variants that could have been carried as sidearms by halberdiers and archers?
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REALISM
Sept 29, 2011 1:58:06 GMT -5
Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 29, 2011 1:58:06 GMT -5
Thought long and hard about those, and about falchion, but I couldn't figure out a profile that actually makes them worth taking over axes/clubs. Ideas are always welcome though.
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Gardelin
Guardsman
The Pantless One
And then, there were sallets.
Posts: 67
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REALISM
Sept 29, 2011 7:59:39 GMT -5
Post by Gardelin on Sept 29, 2011 7:59:39 GMT -5
Maybe something like this? The falchion has the same off/def as a longsword, but with increased AP. Not as much as an axe, but still more, creating the hybrid that they are.
The arming sword/sidesword/short sword/whatever stabby bit with a blade is a longsword with less offense. Not a good main weapon, which was the intention, but might help skirmishers stay alive in melee.
I'm not certain about the costs these would have though, as I suck at those things.
Falchion
Offense: 1 Defense: 1 AP: 4
Longsword:
Offense: 1 Defense: 1 AP: 3
Arming sword/Sidesword
Offense: - Defense: 1 AP: 3
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REALISM
Sept 30, 2011 1:49:04 GMT -5
Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Sept 30, 2011 1:49:04 GMT -5
Costs are easy to sort out. The problem here are that the falchion is plainly than the longsword, which feels odd when you think of the vast difference in cost.
I like the sidesword profile though, we can work something with that.
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REALISM
Sept 30, 2011 5:03:05 GMT -5
Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 30, 2011 5:03:05 GMT -5
Also, a longsword has better AP qualities than a falchion, due to the tapered, thrusting point.
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Gardelin
Guardsman
The Pantless One
And then, there were sallets.
Posts: 67
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REALISM
Sept 30, 2011 8:15:18 GMT -5
Post by Gardelin on Sept 30, 2011 8:15:18 GMT -5
The longsword has only better AP capabilities if you thrust. The falchion was designed for punching through mail with slashing attacks, bridging an axe with a sword. Though quite frankly, it would probably be best to play a falchion with the axe/mace profile due to the limitations with the stats.
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REALISM
Sept 30, 2011 8:22:16 GMT -5
Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 30, 2011 8:22:16 GMT -5
There isn't really any advantage to a falchion vis a vis an axe, save the greater reach a falchion would have and the fact you could parry with it.
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REALISM
Oct 14, 2011 2:20:15 GMT -5
Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Oct 14, 2011 2:20:15 GMT -5
Shooting: If you don't want to move, you can shoot. Unfortunately you can't do both, unless you have a throwing knife, axe or spear in which case you can launch a volley at a penalty to hit and then charge a unit. Even more unfortunate, those kind of weapons aren't available in European medieval warfare and will be more of a commonly seen thing in the ancient/dark age ruleset and possibly some eastern european/asian/middle eastern warfare. anyways, moving on. Quote (from Medieval Warfare; Terence Wise) 'During the Hundred Years war maces, hammers, axes and daggers were often used as missiles when lines of dismounted men-at-arms approached each other.' 'The Spanish light cavalry must have had a shorter verion used like a javelin, for they frequently threw their 'lances' at each other.' And out of interest, because I'm not really sure, does transitional plate refer to the point when mail was modified to include armour on the legs, arms as more dangerous infantry weapons were invented? Please don't take this the wrong way, and you probably know all this, I'm just putting in my two cents.
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REALISM
Nov 25, 2011 10:59:10 GMT -5
Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Nov 25, 2011 10:59:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback Shostak, sorry I never got back to you, haven't worked on this for a while as I've been ill.
Transitional plate refers to the time period roughly 1350-1450 when the traditional chainmail suits periodically started being reinforced with plate armour in Europe. The final step of this is the plate and chain of the mid 1400's, which is nearly indistinguishable from the first sets of proper "full plate armour" such as Gothic or Greenwich plate.
Mail on the legs and arms has been around since the dark ages, the Saxons in particular favoured mail chaps and I'm pretty sure the Norman cavalry were behind the mail surcoats.
I'll include javelins, thanks for the heads-up. I should've included them to begin with.
Also, me and RT are going to have a test game tomorrow, so I'm gonna revise the rules. We'll see how it goes and evolve it from there.
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REALISM
Nov 25, 2011 15:39:40 GMT -5
Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Nov 25, 2011 15:39:40 GMT -5
OK, thanks for the clarification.
I look forward to seeing your thoughts post game.
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