Imperial Guard Codex Modifications

[Lord General Armstrong]

Me and my gaming group have decided to do a little rewrite and a series of modifications to the Imperial Guard Codex.

- We are currently looking for Sub Editors (Checking for grammatical errors, adding in pictures and giving it a fluent style.)

- We are also looking for playtesters and good old comments and criticism.

- New rules, units, abilities can and will be added (if they are solid enough) or existing entries can be rewritten.

If all this turns out well we may begin a rewrite and modification for the Space Marine Codex then followed by the rest of the Xenos.

The link: www.scribd.com/doc/71262891/Imperial-Guard-Codex-Modifications

Thank you

Jarms48a or Lord General Armstrong.

[Lord General Armstrong]

Changes to be made:

Heavy Support
- Leman Russ Conqueror
- Bombard

Fast Attack
- Salamander
- Imperial Guard Bikers

- Chimerax: The Chimerax is by far the most widespread variant of the Chimera, armed with turret-mounted, quad-linked Autocannons. Its design was intended to serve as a mobile anti-aircraft artillery piece in extreme situations where no other anti-aircraft capability was present and provide Guardsmen with close fire support. While the Chimerax's quad-linked Autocannons actually fared poorly against aircraft they proved more than capable of supporting the ferried troops. This variant has been mostly replaced with the much more effective Hydra anti-air tank.

- Chimedon: The Chimedon is essentially a heavier armed version of the Chimera that serves as a light tank. The Chimedon is armed with a turret-mounted Conqueror Cannon for added firepower. Some Chimedons were further upgraded with a Battle Cannon, but the stronger recoil of this weapon had the chance to seriously damage the vehicle itself upon firing the gun.

- Chimerro: The Chimerro possessed a single Hunter-Killer Missile Launcher tube attached to the turret and an automated reloading system, it was difficult to keep it in proper working order, so it was rarely used. The Chimerro was common in Imperial service as its Missile Launcher was useful in providing combat support for Imperial Guardsmen attacking strongly fortified targets.

Elites
- Engineer Squad (along with hades breaching drill)
- Cyclops
- Heavy mortar battery
- Quad Launcher battery

N/A
- Tarantula Turrets
- Atlas
- Trogan
- Centaur

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Suggestions:

Doctrines:

Martyrs: (Needs Description, Basically means) Detonating grenades in close combat, remove any model(s) and place a small blast over there head. Automatically hits friendly's and enemies under template, roll to wound, armour saves still apply if applicable. In the event of a sweeping advance 25% of the unit can be declared as martyrs sacrificing themselves to let there peers escape. Depending on the grenade used and equipped.

Stats

Frag: S3, AP 6
Krak: S6, AP 4
Melta: S8, AP 1

Aerial Cavalry: (Description and rules needed)

.............................................................................................................................

If have any questions, suggestions or general C & C please go ahead.

Thank you

Jarms48a or Lord General Armstrong

[emptyhat]

Martyrs sounds overpowered, do you get to pick which guys detonate or do you split 50/50 with your opponent.

[Trickstick]

What are you thinking of doing for Guard bikers? I was working on some rules here if you want to take a look.

[treadiculous]

I've played a similar ruling to martyrs with my 40k skaven army.. I found that making them have to survive the first round of close combat makes them a bit fairer, making them good vs vehicles, but less good against good infantry.

I also give the option for timed explosives (they explode at the end of a pre set turn) which is cheaper and remote charge.

I also gave melta upgrade as a +10 point per model to the other 2 options (krak, and frag) whicb are included in the unit cost.

Remember that blasts are reduced by half if they don't have the middle hole over the vehicle, so the S8 melta isn't too powerful.. unless your facing terminators... but the terminator player will probably prioritise taking the martyrs down with ranged fire.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

In your book Creed costs 10 points more and gets a BS boost, 5 stormtroopers(who cost almost as much as creed does in our current codex), and Kell.

Yarrick is considerably cheaper and gets an extra attack...

Stormtroopers cost a lot less...have better range...but only WS2 str 2 and t2
with I4...but the sergeant has WS3 STR3 T3 and I3...that doesn't make any sense.




Anyway...you've made everything a lot better and didn't adjust the points enough to justify any of it...so until you've rewritten the Tau and Spare Marine codex to match, I'm going to have to call this one OP.

[Julian Sharps]

I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring and say that while this codex doesn't do everything we hoped for, has a few stupid rules and more than a couple combinations that were nerfed by FAQ (I'm thinking of MoO+Mortar combo), it is the best codex in 5th edition, and does not currently need any changing. The reason why it's the best codex in 5th edition is because it can do just about anything (and has the best dedicated transport and main battle tank in the game, the Chimera and Leman Russ, respectively). This codex can spam firepower like no one's business, can field some of the most devastating AT infantry in the game, scales well at any level and is almost impossible to wipe out against certain armies (Grey Knights and Terminator-heavy forces tend to struggle against infantry-spam Guard gunlines). Additionally, we can field more tanks than anyone else, we started the whole flyer craze (remember the Storm Raven? Evidence that Space Marine players were envious of the Valkyrie and wanted something better than it).

Essentially, our codex is fine the way it is. With the possible exception of the Dark Eldar codex, we have more viable builds than anyone else, and we still beat face in tourneys, even against Space Wolves and Grey Knights. Sisters are the ones that desperately need a new codex (and no, I'm not counting the dwarfdex they got a couple months ago, I mean an honest-to-god codex like what everyone else has), and while Eldar, Chaos and Tau could do with some tweaking (actually, that's not entirely true. Codex: Chaos Space Marines might need to be rebuilt from the ground up), it is not the Imperial Guard, who have one of the best codexes in the game, who need fandexes and unofficial updates.

If you still have doubts over the current codex, look over the old one (or failing that, your Primer) and count your blessings. They will be legion.

[AshotNINJA]

id love someone to write a K9 dog handling unit for a IG army... say i trooper per 2 attack dogs... or even a UAV drone unit type (like the tau) for a IG army too... hint hint

[Lord General Armstrong]

Oct 25, 2011 10:02:29 GMT -5 emptyhat said:

Martyrs sounds overpowered, do you get to pick which guys detonate or do you split 50/50 with your opponent.

You choose which model(s) can become martyrs.

Oct 25, 2011 10:08:54 GMT -5 Trickstick said:

What are you thinking of doing for Guard bikers? I was working on some rules here if you want to take a look.

I will have a look at that, with looks i was thinking of this pics.towerhobbies.com/image/i/itas0315.jpg (with its attached heavy stubber upgrade)

As for stats same as a guardsmen except the plus 1 toughness and a 4+ armour save. Options same as the standard guardsmen outlined in this codex except the heavy weapon and sergeant upgrades.

Oct 25, 2011 11:49:04 GMT -5 treadiculous said:

I also gave melta upgrade as a +10 point per model to the other 2 options (krak, and frag) whicb are included in the unit cost.

Melta bombs are only reserved for the units that can have them, vet squads, storm troopers, sergeants, etc.

Oct 25, 2011 12:32:01 GMT -5 Ymmot (M.I.A) said:

In your book Creed costs 10 points more and gets a BS boost, 5 stormtroopers(who cost almost as much as creed does in our current codex), and Kell.

The debate was that in the previous codex it was 125 points for Creed and Kell. We see creed costing 150 points (including the command squad pricing), might see if I can get rid of the storm troopers and make that a command squad upgrade instead.

Oct 25, 2011 12:32:01 GMT -5 Ymmot (M.I.A) said:

Yarrick is considerably cheaper and gets an extra attack...

He was seen as over priced for the stats he gave compared to the other races heros, if you have a suggested points cost I will be glad to hear it.

Oct 25, 2011 12:32:01 GMT -5 Ymmot (M.I.A) said:

Stormtroopers cost a lot less...have better range...but only WS2 str 2 and t2 with I4...but the sergeant has WS3 STR3 T3 and I3...that doesn't make any sense.

The person who wrote the elite section obviously just copy pasted the table in the ratling section and forgot to change it, that is now fixed. As for the points cost I will increase to 12 points at the moment, perhaps 15 (same as a space wolf). As the idea is to make elites a more viable choice.

Might also see if I can add a grenadier option, same stats just with out the fancy rules and deep strike. Then leave them at 10 points.

Oct 25, 2011 15:37:39 GMT -5 AshotNINJA said:

id love someone to write a K9 dog handling unit for a IG army... say i trooper per 2 attack dogs... or even a UAV drone unit type (like the tau) for a IG army too... hint hint

I will add those to the suggestions box and see what we can come up with.

[Rolling Thunder]

Okay...

Firstly, have to second Ymmot. This is massively overpowered - probably to the level of Codex: Grey Knights. Namely:

Echo Ymmot's comments on Creed. Massive undercost for his abilities. He's basically a one-man strike team. Personally, being an SC, I'd overcost him, given his rarity.

You've also basically crowbarred all the Special Character orders into the general orders section.
Most of the doctrines are horrifyingly OP as there's no cost to using them.

- Armoured side skirts should upgrade the chimera to AV11, not 12.

- Sponson heavy stubbers on Valkyries is grotesquely overpowered.

10-point Stormtroopers? While I agree they're massively overcosted currently, 10 points is significantly undercosted given their deployment abilities alone. I'd make them 12 points per model, but also include WS4 (they're described as having advanced close combat training) and all-around Ld8/Ld9 for the sergeant (they're the best the Imperium has).

[Shostak(AWOL)]

While I like the concepts and ideas, it looks to me like a combination of the best bits of the old 'dex, the new 'dex and the Krieg list. IMO, when some people already consider the Guard OP, this is overly improved. I like what you've done with the Orgryns, the orders system and different organisations, but i think some of it is too far.

I strongly disagree with the playing around with the FOC, if the Guard can't do that, then why can't everyone? In that case the whole concept goes out the window.

I think at least some of the doctrines need a points cost attatched, when a viable tank army can be fielded in the current 'dex as it is people are going to want explanations.

Although I really love your ideas, I can't see this working, and while you've fixed a lot of things I feel need fixing, there's a lot that I really don't agree with.

[cheminhaler]

Oct 29, 2011 12:49:36 GMT -5 Shostak(AWOL) said:

I strongly disagree with the playing around with the FOC, if the Guard can't do that, then why can't everyone? In that case the whole concept goes out the window.

Yeah, but you know in the next guard codex we'd probably get rough rider platoons as troops choices, so the odd modification like that isn't too bad.

The doctrines need points costs, especially carapace, which was the costliest upgrade in the loast 'dex.

[Shostak(AWOL)]

Oct 29, 2011 16:13:28 GMT -5 cheminhaler said:

Yeah, but you know in the next guard codex we'd probably get rough rider platoons as troops choices, so the odd modification like that isn't too bad.

I agree, but I would like to see that as a modification determined by a HQ choice, or taking some sort of army specialisastion doctrine, rather than skewing the FOC.

[Soap]

So like the orks then Shostak?

[Shostak(AWOL)]

Yeah, in the way a big Mek works with dreads, or a SM captain on a bike making bike squads troops.

[cheminhaler]

Oct 30, 2011 4:29:58 GMT -5 Shostak(AWOL) said:

I agree, but I would like to see that as a modification determined by a HQ choice, or taking some sort of army specialisastion doctrine, rather than skewing the FOC.

Good idea. Some sort of Rough rider commander, with a mounted company command squad, or a return to doctrines (preferable)...

[Rolling Thunder]

I think implementing the doctrines system is an entirely sensible idea, but basically in the same way as in the current codex - only with far more options (though with some limitations - for example: doctrines will have to be applied platoon wide).

[Lord General Armstrong]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will pass them over to the group and see what changes can be made. However doctrines will proberably stay as they are perhaps with the drawbacks that RT suggested (But doctrines are aimed to be army wide, representing how differnent armies of the Imperial Guard are trained and equipped), however our next rewrites will have similar systems. E.G.

Space marines: Traits
Orks: Da Klans
Tau: Septs

With regards to the force organisation chart changes each of the other codex rewrites will have similar rulings as well.

Edit: Have updated the link and have made the first set of minor changes. Namely:

- Special Rules removed from Creed and moved to standard company command squad with points cost attached.
- Yarrick's point cost increased by 10 points.
- Storm Trooper price increased to 12 points and 65 points basic to purchase.
- Grenadier option added to Elites
- Chimera side skirts only increase side armour to 11
- Heavy armour for Leman Russ Tanks only increases rear armour value by 1.
- Ordnance Battery changed to Mobile Ordnance Battery.
- Added in Ordnance Battery.

[Rolling Thunder]

@armstrong: Thanks for taking the criticism like a man, hope it didn't seem to harsh on you guys.

Also, HW teams and Ogryns are still seriously overcosted. A 10-point-per-model drop for the Ogryns is in order to bring them in line with, say, Terminators. I think HW teams could do with a 5-point drop for the base cost and a 5 point drop for Lascannons and Missile Launchers.
Also: Has anyone noticed that a 6-man SWS squad with a demo charge costs almost as much as a 10-man vet squad with a demo charge and meltabombs? Rewrite needed there.

I think the best way to implement doctrines is to:

- Remove sharpshooters (it was always open to abuse, especially when it comes to HW and SWS teams).
- The mounted doctrine simply makes Rough Riders Troops. Awesome, effective and cool, but not really OP.
- Remove Gaze of the Commissariat and the Priesthood equivalent. Far too powerful and far too open to abuse.
- Prepared Defences is...well, it's alright really. Gives gunline armies more of a fighting chance.
- Make carapace into a universal unit upgrade. 20 points per squad no matter what squad size, for Veterans, Inf squads, Ogryns, Sniper squads (remove Ratlings, they're dumb), SWS and HWT's.

- Same for Camo-Cloaks.
- Same for Xeno-Fighters (5pts)
- Same for C.O.D (5pts)
- Same for Hardened Fighters (10pts)
- Drop Light Infantry except for Veterans (10pts)
- Same for Drop Troops (10pts).
- An Aerial Cavalry doctrine seems like a good idea. Valkyries become dedicated transports, but can not use Chimeras...or any other armoured vehicle aside from Sentinels, Vendettas and Valks.

[Lord General Armstrong]

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

@armstrong: Thanks for taking the criticism like a man, hope it didn't seem to harsh on you guys.

No that is fine, as my first post said though it maybe in its final stages, any suggestions and ideas are appreciated. We are looking for a well balanced codex that reenters in the old doctrines, some of the old rules from 3rd and many of the units from Imperial Armour.

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

Also, HW teams and Ogryns are still seriously overcosted. A 10-point-per-model drop for the Ogryns is in order to bring them in line with, say, Terminators.

Even with the 4+ armour, feel no pain and the I3 that we have given them?

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

I think HW teams could do with a 5-point drop for the base cost and a 5 point drop for Lascannons and Missile Launchers.

Is there really a need for change they are already cheaper than they were in last edition and I have also added in some new options. E.G back to 6 models, ammunition carrier can fire there lasgun, heavy stubber and multilaser added.

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

Also: Has anyone noticed that a 6-man SWS squad with a demo charge costs almost as much as a 10-man vet squad with a demo charge and meltabombs? Rewrite needed there.

Same as my previous comment however I do think that the SWS should be 5 points still for a guardsmen not 10. It should be the poor mans vet squad.

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

I think the best way to implement doctrines is to:

- Remove sharpshooters (it was always open to abuse, especially when it comes to HW and SWS teams).

How about just working on lasguns then?

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

- The mounted doctrine simply makes Rough Riders Troops. Awesome, effective and cool, but not really OP.

Yeah I will see what the others think and make it similar to the storm trooper battalion.

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

- Remove Gaze of the Commissariat and the Priesthood equivalent. Far too powerful and far too open to abuse.

My thoughts exactly, I quote. "Though I do like you coming up with new doctrines, the idea of free units is exceptionally overpowered."

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

- Prepared Defences is...well, it's alright really. Gives gunline armies more of a fighting chance.

Good to see no changes needed here.

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

- Make carapace into a universal unit upgrade. 20 points per squad no matter what squad size, for Veterans, Inf squads, Ogryns, Sniper squads (remove Ratlings, they're dumb), SWS and HWT's.

- Same for Camo-Cloaks.
- Same for Xeno-Fighters (5pts)
- Same for C.O.D (5pts)
- Same for Hardened Fighters (10pts)
- Drop Light Infantry except for Veterans (10pts)
- Same for Drop Troops (10pts).

Well I was thinking of bringing back the term Guard Infantry from the last dex. Meaning only Guardsmen, Platoon Command, Company Command, HWT and SW squads. May receive the upgrades. But I do like and dislike adding points to the doctrines on one side yes it does balance it out. But on the other it ruins the ability for people to play there own regiments. After all thats why we invented Doctrine points, it is a mix between the Cities of Death, Apocalypses, Planet Strike, Planetary Empires Stratagems System.

Oct 31, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5 Rolling Thunder said:

- An Aerial Cavalry doctrine seems like a good idea. Valkyries become dedicated transports, but can not use Chimeras...or any other armoured vehicle aside from Sentinels, Vendettas and Valks.

Yes we all know you love your air craft Mr RT . I will add it to the suggestions for now and see what happens.

[alexofthatilk]

have you considerd adding the hades breaching drill (forge world) as an upgrade for veterens etc?

[DadCRO]

Nice. A pity GW doesn't playtest stuff more. We could do with balance. (I'm looking at you, punisher and veterans!)

[Lord General Armstrong]

To be honest I almost forgot about this, will have to get the team back together during our free time and finish putting in the unit entries. At the moment it still a complete IG codex with a few alterations but just needing some tweaks and the additions mentioned on the second post.

Mar 3, 2012 17:35:58 GMT -5 alexofthatilk said:

Have you considerd adding the hades breaching drill (forge world) as an upgrade for veterens etc?

To address this, I thank you for your suggestion and it will be noted but we were merely just going to add in the engineer squads with the option for their hades breaching drill.