Been watching 300, and so I made a crazy 2K warriors of chaos list, what ya think?
60 Marauders - Shilds, full command, MKorn 350
60 Marauders - 60 Shilds, Mkorn (330) X 5 = 1650
Now, I have no lord, my general is the 1 champion, think that's leagal.
I lack banners and drummer boys, but I felt the points are better spent on more troops, mark of Korn (+1A each for 0.5 each, bargain) and Shilds (fit in for the Spartan feel).
Now I made this list to see if I could get 300 men in a 2k list, but do you think it will be competitive? That's alot of troops to take out. Although I don't have the banners I'm hopping the amount of men and ranks will mean I won't often flee. I also lack magic.
Lacking magic matters a bit i think even if it's a fully khorne army. I think having full command normally matters (musicians, champions and banners). You see some of this stuff gives you bonuses and musicians allow you faster reform and such as well as add +1 to leadership when you flee if i remember correctly. Banners usually matter if you take more special banners but i think they have some other purpose as well (can't remember much else of what they do except +1 combat resolution). Champions might be neglected but if you have to face some really nasty hero you just sort of use the champion as a spare red shirt whipping boy that gets killed against the enemy's powerful hero if you can't face him. That way if you can't withstand your enemy's main hero you have a back-up so he doesn't die.
I haven't played in at least a couple months except for yesterday and overall i don't get to play much anymore. Basically i haven't been able to really strategize or care to remember things as much. I'm slipping into other games like starcraft 2 as i get to play that more than once a month and esp. more than warhammer. If you have any suggestions they'd be nicer than just insulting the people of the thread you replied to and in the least helpful of ways.
Now RT, that suggests you have dobt have a clue. you have not said what's wrong with it.
I Dont need to be patronised, I have been in the hobby since 1992 and used to work for GW (not that that means all GW employes know alot) . What I was really asking is, poring points into rank and file instead of magic and so on, will it work?
If I had a average army on the board and 300 Marauders opposite I wouldn't say "I'll defo win this!"
All I would say RT is I would love you to put your army on a gaming board, and let me set mine up across from you. That would sort the men from the boys.
Funny really, just getting into forums but people are like that, would never say that kind of thing to somones face but through the web it's said... No contructive critasisum, no perl of knowledge, just rubbish. I'm actualy impressed with him, learning to use the keyboard is a big step from the crayon.
Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 16, 2012 12:22:01 GMT -5
Don't mind RT, he's a curmudgeon.
I think there are mini companies out there that actually make Spartan (or at least Hoplite) miniatures, if your opponenets are okay with non-GW models.
As for the list itself, I don't play Fantasy, so I can't offer much concrete advice. I do think banners would be a good addition, but I don't think you need to worry about musicians. It'll certainly be fun to play, but I can't say one way or another about competitive. Still, like you say, 300 guys is a lot to chew on for any army...
There may be no "I" in "Team", but there is a "Team" in "Meat Shield".
I think full command is generally all worth it to take but maybe that's just me doing it for traditional reasons. The musician is good for a quick reform and the banner is good if you can use any decent banners. The champion like i said is usually just there as a meat shield for heroes you don't want to have die. Marauders look like spartans somewhat but they're not that good stat-wise if i remember correctly. They're alright but really the only way they'd work is if they looked like marauders but had warriors of chaos stats. Warriors are so ridiculously strong for their points costs and then you can add banners or marks (not sure if they're the same thing). Then again i don't play chaos and i haven't fought them and i haven't really read much into their equipment and stuff.
If you want to go for a themed army i'd say you should go khorne heavy and that's about it. I don't see spartans with much magic. Is this list competitive? Well not really but it could probably win some games. Would you be willing to take marauders with flails? That might give them an extra needed punch whether or not it works. I don't think warriors of chaos have daemon weapons in fantasy like they do in 40k but you can always check their wargear options if you want. Don't be afraid to mix and match with stuff from the rulebook as well. I've heard some pretty nasty stuff and the whole idea verminard had for jezzails in a fozzrik's folding fortress sounds pretty good even if it's 100 pts for a building.
Now, I have no lord, my general is the 1 champion, think that's legal.
If it's the regiment champion then it's not legal. For it to be legal it has to be chosen from the 'Hero' section of the list. I think there are 2 classes of 'hero' and chaos lords for larger games. If you chose 'exalted champion' or something like that, it's probably legal.
Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jan 16, 2012 20:20:30 GMT -5
Those are a lot of boys to chew on, and under 8th Edition, it's going to take a lot to whittle them down. Fast armies that can run circles around you will be your bane however, as those big blocks will be very very slow to reform (musicians will make this better, but not much).
In my opinion, you should always take full command for close combat infantry troops, because their benefits more than make up for their overall cost. +1 combat resolution from the banner, +1 to rally and a potential tie breaker from the musician, and a potential leadership bump and fighting ability from the champion.
Lacking magic isn't a huge deal, at least not to me. You can probably overcome it with Magic Resistance from items.
Champions might be neglected but if you have to face some really nasty hero you just sort of use the champion as a spare red shirt whipping boy that gets killed against the enemy's powerful hero if you can't face him. That way if you can't withstand your enemy's main hero you have a back-up so he doesn't die.
The only problem with this is the Overkill bonus to combat. It can potentially give out a +5 to combat resolution, which if definitely not a good thing to have going against you.
@envoy: True but it has saved my heroes' asses and that of other players' heroes many a time. It's esp. useful if you have a wizard or BSB that's going to be facing down some guy with a 100 pt weapon like the fellblade (str 10 d6 wounds magical attacks re-roll ward saves). Unfortunately there are some heroes you just don't want to fight (esp. if their initiative is better and they can kill you easily) and if you have more ranks than the enemy you should be fine anyway. Then again maybe i enjoy the champions because i'm skaven and we almost always have more ranks and are therefore steadfast and stubborn from it.
I think lacking magic is fairly bad. Some would make it sound like you need half a dozen wizards which i think is dumb. Really you need a few in my opinion but then i only have access to a certain amount of spells. Wizards cost a lot of points esp. level 4 wizards and their potency isn't to be denied but your winds of magic (2d6 per magic phase) is usually limited esp. with some races. Having half a dozen wizards and 3 magic dice in one turn or even 7 isn't that much. Casting maybe 2 spells out of half a dozen wizards is a waste. There are items that give you more power dice (those mushrooms orcs and goblins have and warpstone tokens) but you only have so many of them and each generally can hurt the user which is definitely something to watch out for if you made one of these wizards a general. Worst of all some races like dwarfs have no magic and can get rid of magic better than most races. Then there are wizards with certain items that allow them to dispell and cast things easier. In my opinion wizards are decent but not to be absolutely relied on and if you have some way to increase your magic dice per turn using it is a good idea though you may want to find a way to make said character more resilient so it doesn't die so easily. I suppose there's something i should also mention and that is magic turns which never end. Basically if you can try to prevent the lore of death that throws down a magical vortex and kills a lot of guys. It's pretty obvious it's annoying but the lore of death gives you more power dice for every person killed by it on a +5 if i remember correctly (or was it wounds caused).
I could have full command on all units and then just have MOK on half the units.
Way I look at magic is, one LV1/2 is pointless, unless you have 2 or a lv 3/4 it's not worth it. Yes a know about dispel scroles. So if I was going to think about defending against magic id have to drop a unit.
Has anyone checked the rules for not taking a Lord/Hero?
vulpine: No but i'm fairly certain that you do need a hero or a lord and generally the one with the highest leadership is your leader regardless. If there are two with the same highest leadership you choose who's your general. Really if they don't say it they should. I'm pretty sure that unit champions are not heroes and that's why they don't have to accept challenges. So i think you need heroes or characters as a general.
I actually think mark of khorne on all the units would probably be more useful than full command. Just remember which unit doesn't have full command. The marks sound more useful in my opinion but that's just me.
Hookah, S.C.: Well i'm only good at a few things and history isn't one of them. It's more because i haven't studied it so extensively. I mean i almost got an A in my U.S. history class (B+) but i don't specialize in history so there ya go. Just trying to make the army more competitive. Making an army competitive and themed usually don't go hand in hand.