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Post by akaiyou on Mar 22, 2012 21:56:42 GMT -5
1500 Pts - Tyranids Roster - Bio
HQ:
. . 1 Hive Tyrant, 220 pts (Lash Whip & Bonesword x1; Heavy Venom Cannon; Old Adversary; Leech Essence; Paroxysm)
. . 1 Hive Tyrant, 220 pts (Lash Whip & Bonesword x1; Heavy Venom Cannon; Old Adversary; Leech Essence; Paroxysm)
Elite:
. . 2 Hive Guard Brood, 100 pts
Troops:
. . 10 Termagant Brood, 50 pts (Fleshborer)
. . 10 Termagant Brood, 50 pts (Fleshborer)
. . 1 Tervigon, 180 pts (Cluster Spines; Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs; Dominion)
. . 1 Tervigon, 180 pts (Cluster Spines; Adrenal Glands; Toxin Sacs; Dominion)
Heavy Support:
. . 1 Tyrannofex, 250 pts (Acid Spray; Cluster Spines; Thorax Swarm (larvae))
. . 1 Tyrannofex, 250 pts (Acid Spray; Cluster Spines; Thorax Swarm (larvae))
Total Roster Cost: 1500
Theme:
Templates! Templates! More Templates! The goal was to toss in a bunch of blasts/flamer weapons into a solid list.
Overall Theme Performance:
Wins 8, Draws 0 Losses 1
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Post by DadCRO on Mar 22, 2012 22:44:47 GMT -5
Nidzilla eh? Looks like a solid list, post a battle report soon.
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Post by akaiyou on Apr 17, 2012 2:58:11 GMT -5
This theme performed way better than I ever had hoped for. Out of 9 games i won 8 and barely lost to the grey knights on a very close game where they had to flee from me tabling them by killing their last 3 paladins on the table at the end of turn 5.
1 more turn and it would've been a Tyranid win for sure great game though.
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Post by krasimirova on Apr 17, 2012 9:52:06 GMT -5
What are the levels of the players you face..?
What are their army lists..?
How long have they played..?
Do they play in local meta, or is it a group of friends playing..?
List looks a bit too static for my liking.. In my experience Nid lists that dosn't either go for none deployment, flying circus or cover save generating gant wall builds will lack mobility and because of the lack of cover saves high S weaponry will kill your Tyrants and Tyrannofexes before they get too close..
Have you played this list against any of the following: Purifier/Psyman spam, DE Venom/Blaster Spam, Fully meched IG or RazorFang SW..?
I am not saying that it isn't nifty that you got alot of wins out of one of the worst codex' in 5th edition, all I'm saying is that the list dosn't look that hard and via mobility or simple firepower you should be able to beat it quite easily..
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Post by akaiyou on Apr 17, 2012 14:22:53 GMT -5
I have some questions of my own actually...
Are you just trying to be an internet douche?
Really did you expect me to answer all those questions realistically?
Do you hold interviews before every game against everyone you play in order to know all that information about them?
If yes, has anyone ever told you to go F*** urself ?
I mean i'm not saying you are being a thingy, but players don't exactly come with cool RPG information sheets on their back that I can just look up their experience levels, how long they've been playing for and a copy of lists and armies they play. So it makes your questions seem ridiculous
And so because I did not face your above mentioned army lists it suddenly means my list is not "LEGIT" or a well built list? Isn't that the tip of the iceberg in ridiculousness? I can come up with a few reasons why...
#1 - First of all i already beat grey knights paladin spam which is just as strong as purifier spam. And guess what? Psycannons and Psyriflemen SUCK against monstrous creatures. For the same reasons you don't rely on Assault Cannons/Autocannon to kill MCs with other marine lists. The MCs will still get their saves they aren't vehicles high strength alone does NOT kill them.
So considering that ive already fought against Grey Knights and seen how poorly stormbolters and psycannons as well as psyriflemen do against a nutsload of MCs...I'd say those purifiers are in for a beating. (Oh and I play Grey Knights too by the way using both paladins and purifiers)
#2 - Let's assume that my list is pure fail against those above mentioned armies. And that as you say the Tyranid codex is uber weak in 5th edition so that basically all Tyranid armies are weak against those above mentioned armies. So if no matter what I do I wont be able to topple the armies mentioned, should I cry about it and go for the impossible or does it not make sense to build a list that is stronger against other targets that i CAN defeat? Is making the list less mobile thus going from "BAD" to "WORST" vs DE Venom/Blaster Spam such a terrible thing if it makes it twice as strong versus anything on foot or lacking heavy mobility?
#3 Just cuz a list doesnt look that hard does it make it any less effective in the hands of a capable player? Hell I have seen tournament results where people take many of the sketchy options in a codex and come out in 1st place. Are you simply buying into internet buzz without actually playing or are you speaking from hands on experience? Are you custom tailoring a list to defeat mine or are you actually comparing my list to your own standard list and then thinking 'yeah i'd crush that' or is it more of a 'well this army and that other army would totally own that list'? Cuz it seems you are doing more of the latter...
Just saying
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Post by krasimirova on Apr 18, 2012 2:31:16 GMT -5
I have some questions of my own actually... Are you just trying to be an internet douche? Really did you expect me to answer all those questions realistically? Do you hold interviews before every game against everyone you play in order to know all that information about them? If yes, has anyone ever told you to go F*** urself ? Hahaha! Easy there boy..! No nobody have ever told me to go fornicate myself.. And no I don't ask these questions if I am playing a game against anybody, and I havn't said I would..  And so because I did not face your above mentioned army lists it suddenly means my list is not "LEGIT" or a well built list? Isn't that the tip of the iceberg in ridiculousness? I havn't said any such thing.. If you go back to my post and re-read it, you'll see that I am actually commenting on your list build and the flaws I see in it.. If you didn't post the list here to get CC, then was it just to say that you had won some games with the list..? I can come up with a few reasons why... #1 - First of all i already beat grey knights paladin spam which is just as strong as purifier spam. And guess what? Psycannons and Psyriflemen SUCK against monstrous creatures. For the same reasons you don't rely on Assault Cannons/Autocannon to kill MCs with other marine lists. The MCs will still get their saves they aren't vehicles high strength alone does NOT kill them. Hehe it is funny that you'd say that Paladin builds are as strong as purifier spam, when it clearly isnt... The builds focus on two different carries and a 100% different approch to redundancy.. GK shouldn't use Psycannons and Autocannons against MC's.. They should use their forceweapons, and if they don't then the Player isn't any good.. When I wrote high S weaponry, ofcause I wasn't talking about Psycannons, they are mid S.. High S weaponry is the base of which IG (the forum you are on) would take on large amount of MC's.. So considering that ive already fought against Grey Knights and seen how poorly stormbolters and psycannons as well as psyriflemen do against a nutsload of MCs...I'd say those purifiers are in for a beating. (Oh and I play Grey Knights too by the way using both paladins and purifiers) See above argument about target priority.. #2 - Let's assume that my list is pure fail against those above mentioned armies. And that as you say the Tyranid codex is uber weak in 5th edition so that basically all Tyranid armies are weak against those above mentioned armies. So if no matter what I do I wont be able to topple the armies mentioned, should I cry about it and go for the impossible or does it not make sense to build a list that is stronger against other targets that i CAN defeat? Is making the list less mobile thus going from "BAD" to "WORST" vs DE Venom/Blaster Spam such a terrible thing if it makes it twice as strong versus anything on foot or lacking heavy mobility? Well the fact about the Tyranid Codex isn't really target against you as a person or anything here, so no need to get all girly about it.. It IS one of the worst codex in the current meta game.. And speaking of the current meta which is transports (where you only have 4 units that have the range to take out transports, another flaw in the Nid Codex) Most units with transports will be faster than your MC's (The carry of your list) And ofcause you should build the list as you see fit mate, there isn't anybody saying otherwise.. #3 Just cuz a list doesnt look that hard does it make it any less effective in the hands of a capable player? Hell I have seen tournament results where people take many of the sketchy options in a codex and come out in 1st place. Are you simply buying into internet buzz without actually playing or are you speaking from hands on experience? Are you custom tailoring a list to defeat mine or are you actually comparing my list to your own standard list and then thinking 'yeah i'd crush that' or is it more of a 'well this army and that other army would totally own that list'? Cuz it seems you are doing more of the latter... Hehe you don't have to worry about the on hand experience, and many of the users on here can speak to that too, with the amount of help i've been giving.. And I am not list tailoring here (Why would I).. I am taking the most common lists both in my local meta game AND on the internet.. ---------- Now since the kicking has started.. What I was doing was asking about the level of players you where facing, because you came of as a: "Look at me, i've taken Tyranids and I am beating SOO much face with it..!" You wrote a army list.. Then you wrote how much you win with it.. <-- That was all you did.. No Tactics, No Battle reports, nothing to back it up.. That is the reason I asked about the player level and your local meta game.. SIMPLY so that we'd get a deeper understanding of how you came to win with a sub par (NOT a insult here!) codex, and what I considered a none optimized list (having played both with and against Tyranids throughout 4th and 5th.) Now I really feel you wither misunderstood or misinterpretated my post, because I have nothing to gain from shooting down a list on Ze Interwebz..:/ Kras.. |
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Post by Peter Cooman on Apr 18, 2012 4:07:13 GMT -5
Now i think you were a little harsh there bro. From what i have read over the past year or so, Kras knows what he's doing. And he only asked you some simple questions.Asking about player levels is not being rude, it's gaining intel on the situation. For all we know you could be using the army to teach noobs the game  Now before you take above sentence as an insult, that was a joke. I hope they invent something that shows sarcasm on the interwebz  |
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Post by akaiyou on Apr 18, 2012 19:18:40 GMT -5
Well my friend its not like i'm new at this forum or at this game either
I've been playing this since 2005...so got a good 7 years under my belt. And I play 9 out of the 16 armies availalbe with a total if over 40,000 points worth of stuff. And if you look at my previous posts I also offer advice but for the most part what i've done here has been posting battle reports cuz I'm in this for the gaming aspect not necessarily competitive but definetly in it for the love of the game.
I play this game an awful lot I don't just sit around and theory hammer all day (not saying that it's what you do) so I would go as far as to say that I have a fairly solid concept on the rules and how the game works built on loads of actual play experience accumulated over 7 years. So more or less I'd like to think that I know what i'm doing
So when you start questioning me ridiculously about player level and how many years they been in the game and all this crap that NO ONE could possibly know about their opponent unless they sit down and have a discussion about it, it just seems to me like you are trying to undermine the fact that i've been able to play my crazy idea successfully.
For the record I have 14,000 points of tyranids alone. It is my first and most beloved army and even with this 'worst codex' as you call it, excellent players can and DO succeed. But the way you seem to bash the army I would dare say that perhaps it's the players in YOUR local meta that are no good? And for the record this list was NOT built to be on any tournament, i dunno why interwebz heads like yourself seem to think that EVERY LIST posted online MUST be reconstructed to be in a tournament. I mean jeezus people if the OP doesnt ASK for advice/tips/help it could be possible that he is NOT looking for such. Perhaps he just wants to share a cool new idea with the rest of you, is that so hard to fathom?
I decided one day i wanted to try something 'different' even if I lose a bunch of games I thought it would be fun to build an army using my tyranid models that had blast/template weapons and this was the result of my fiddling around with it. And lo and behold it actually works, who would've thought! I'm as surprised as you guys are that a list NOT intended to be 'optimal' for tournament play is kicking ass
Perhaps this is due to the fact that I put a lot of focus into playing to it's strengths. Or because I have so many years of play experience and because i do play so many of the other armies that I have a pretty good concept of what i can and can't compete against so I avoid pitfalls as much as i can, who knows there's a nutsload of factors involved that dont really matter.
Trying to dissect my wins is not at all the point of this thread and rather rude. Like wtf? Why cant you just accept that it's possible to win with this? Jeez.
The point was to say "Hey guys check this idea out, you can try it out yourselves it's pretty fun and it CAN win games"
You are correct this is a forum, where we come to socialize with like-minded players. Your error is believing that there is only 1 way to do things and that all army lists posted are there to be dissected, analyzed and reconstructed in your image. Or that if anything that YOU don't like is actually successful that the competition level MUST be somehow questionable.
I saw a Chaos player from DakkaDakka with a chaos list that I myself consider 'not optimal' apparently win one of the big tournaments with it. Does this mean that suddenly everyone else that participated in that tournament was a noob that walked in that very day looking to be schooled?
Food for thought my friends. Think outside the box it's not that hard to appreciate the work of others and be a good sport.
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Post by DadCRO on Apr 18, 2012 19:53:00 GMT -5
Dude, you're going to get banned if you keep being so hostile.
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Post by Wraelis on Apr 18, 2012 20:04:48 GMT -5
It's a perfectly normal set of questions Kras was asking you. You didn't provide much info about the kind of people you face or really any other sort of detail for people to help you out in making a better list. I imagine you posted this here to get some input and different views on it as that is what these threads are for. If you're going to be so hostile against people who try to help you build a stronger list/strategy... Well go enjoy your perfect list then boyo
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Post by akaiyou on Apr 19, 2012 0:43:59 GMT -5
I am hostile when people come at me sideways, I show no love to those types of people. And i do not apologize because I am a straight up person, and I believe in not pretending to help someone while being a douche, sue me.
Being banned does not end my life far from it.
The fact is I or anyone should NOT have to provide INFO on our opponents like wtf is that bout? Thats not a 'normal question' it's douchebagery. If you guys have some sort of twisted concept on what a discussion is that's all fine and dandy, but as far as I am aware i wasn't posting here to have to give a break down on every opponent i faced just because in someone else's mind my 'wins dont add up'
That's just str8 up rude and should be frowned upon not celebrate.
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Post by Peter Cooman on Apr 19, 2012 2:19:43 GMT -5
Dude i really think you should lighten up. Kras has helped out on my lists too, no need for the hostility.
Next time just post that you don't want c&c on the list if you don't want any.
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Post by Wraelis on Apr 19, 2012 2:27:18 GMT -5
Asking what kinds of opponents you're facing makes perfect sense. Depending on the kind of people you're fighting (ie. friendly games, random people, or serious games). Some lists are good for messing around and are just fun. At the same time, those lists would get stomped in a competitive game. Kras is one of the best people to have help out your lists and you're just being incredibly hostile and taking it completely the wrong way.
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Post by krasimirova on Apr 19, 2012 2:37:25 GMT -5
Ehm.. You have taken this to a whole new level..
I'm trying to be civil here, so I won't tell you what kind of a person you come of like at the moment, since you have made that abundantly clear yourself..
Eventhou several people are telling you, that the post clearly wasn't ment in any bad way and that the questions in my post where relevant to the understanding of your list, you keep insisting that I was trying to be a/that I am a "douchbag".. <- What do you make of that..?
Owning plastic dosn't automatically make you a good player, but if you are as good as you say you are, then you should appreciate the fact; that the opponents experience and player level has LOADS to say in a match-up, and therefore my questions in my first (and now almost redundant post) still stands.. It is only 9 games, so remembering which armies you faced and how the games went isn't too hard..
Otherwise it gives about as much info as: Saying: 8/0/1..
But as Wraelis said.. Enjoy you perfect list then boyo..
Cheer up...
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Post by akaiyou on Apr 21, 2012 5:11:59 GMT -5
It is only 9 games, so remembering which armies you faced and how the games went isn't too hard.. - Except that's not what you asked...you asked for me to give a background check on everyone i played, and no matter what your followers here try to say to the contrary that is just absurd and not 'normal' Because as I stated earlier and you confirmed in your response people don't tend to ask their opponents for a resume of how long they been playing the game nor is there a set 'bar' for player levels. And if there is please point me to it and while we are at it what is YOUR level of play if I may ask? I'm clearly not almighty as i did lose with the list, nor do I claim to be almighty. However I do know my stuff and I do play often enough to have a fairly good grasp on the game. If someone were to inquire about my player level I would give them the following look:  In the many many forums i've posted my fun army list idea you are the ONLY person that has asked those kinds of questions...why? Cuz its NOT a normal friggin question, it comes off to me (forget what everyone else is saying they are outsiders looking in and obviously friends of yours) being the OP as you being an ass. So in a calm way let me break it down for you: A) I display my list as a cool idea to try out, and post that it has been winning games. B) You decide to look at it, you feel that it's a horrible easy to beat list which you clearly state "all I'm saying is that the list dosn't look that hard and via mobility or simple firepower you should be able to beat it quite easily.. " (this alone will set you off to a bad start with ANYONE I mean really when was the last time you told someone that their army list would get owned easily and didn't spark any antagonism? Not counting people actually REQUESTING assistance) C) In the same breathe you also seem to question the validity of my wins. Taking your whole post into account with your clear opinion that if my list is one based on this or that, then it will get beaten easily. It's quite safe to assume that those questions earlier are your way of saying "I don't believe you'll win against anyone with a decent army or decent skill level" I mean otherwise why even ask all that? So with that said, don't try and flip the script hiding the hand that threw the stone. You must've mistook me for someone of 'inferior' level I suppose. And the rest of you I restate the following point. NOT EVERYONE POSTING A LIST IS LOOKING FOR ADVICE/EDITS. Please make the ATTEMPT to read the OP first and don't just readily jump in to flaunt your theory hammer or what not, and if doing so be nice about it. Because clearly not everyone will put up with your BS. It's easy for spectators to judge others, when they themselves are possibly no better. If you've ever watched someone's game where they make a mistake at some point and you think to yourself 'how did he missed that? man i'd have done that sooo differently' does that really make you a better player? Would you really have been able to play the game better had you been the one actively involved and not just watching from a distance? So if you would like to JUDGE my wins based on such information as to what the level/experience/army list or whatever else it is that you need, then consider the fact that you are simply an spectator and you also make mistakes at some points during your own games and judging others on abstract information is not always the best means to 'gauge' skill or worth. Also make note that I posted the following: "This theme performed way better than I ever had hoped for." It doesn't hurt to keep an open mind in this game, I tried something rather new to me thinking perhaps same as you that it wouldn't do too well relying heavily on my own player skill to win any games. But turns out it played pretty solidly against a variety of opponents/armies As I said before i'm just as surprised as you are, the difference is I can accept it as being a 'cool theme' and don't try to pass it as a 'competitive tournament-style' list or judge it based on those parameters alone. That's a ridiculously narrow view of this game as a whole, the vast majority of 40k players are NOT the ones constantly attending tournaments and worrying about rankings. |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 21, 2012 7:38:52 GMT -5
*Ahem*  Now that I have your attention... Both of you guys are members in good standing, so this isn't an official warning or anything, but still. Kras, just remember that not everyone is as competitive as you, and neither are their opponents. Not everyone is looking to run the hardest list possible. Some people want to run fun, interesting, and unusual lists, just to see how they do. Akaiyou is is one of those people, and he's very good at making those types of lists work, and will often throw those lists up here for people to try themselves. Akaiyou, I must respectfully ask you to chill. I can see where you're coming from, but Kras really didn't mean anything by his questioning, and I don't think he warranted the response you gave him. Now, let's all move on, shall we? Reds |
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Apr 21, 2012 13:03:19 GMT -5
I read this whole thread and while akaiyou makes some good points he should probably just calm down...should he be banned for getting frustrated? Absolutely Not.
At the same time, I don't think krasimirova was trying to be a massive douche...having some idea about the opponents you faced does paint for us a clearer picture of what happened, and even if you didn't sit them all down and interview them for us....I'm sure you could have at least gauged their competency by the level of confidence they had and the way in which they used their armies, you could have also named the venue and described the attitude of the players there as you saw it...
Was it necessary to ask and are you obligated to tell us? No, and I know you see it as some kind of round backwards way of questioning the validity of your victory...and while I can put myself in your shoes and see where you are coming from...
I don't think krasimirova is guilty of all the things you say he is guilty of...I think this was mostly just a misunderstanding.
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Post by Peter Cooman on Apr 21, 2012 13:47:18 GMT -5
Just make a clear opening post, that's all i say. Just writing down a list without telling if you want critique or not leads to mistakes like this. Now shake hands and go eradicate the foul xenos!!! O wait this is a post in the tyranid section |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 21, 2012 16:40:16 GMT -5
I read this whole thread and while akaiyou makes some good points he should probably just calm down...should he be banned for getting frustrated? Absolutely Not. Don't worry, no one is getting banned, at least by me. As you say, this is just a misunderstanding. Reds |
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Post by akaiyou on Apr 25, 2012 0:53:30 GMT -5
Fair enough, but in regards to 'make a clear opening post'
I can't really think of anything 'clearer' than NOT asking for edits/advice. I do seek advice at times specially when starting a new army and at that point i will make a thread where it's clear that I need help. I believe that not requesting assistance is the same as conveying that i'm not seeking it.
We apply the same thing to the game don't we? "If it doesn't say that you CAN do something, then you CANT by default"
I do apologize for getting so agitated, I do admit that I flare up when something rubs me the wrong way.
On a side note, I can definitely appreciate the competitive nature of the game and I enjoy being competitive but some times I just want to enjoy something 'different'. 5th edition is coming to an end soon, so gotta squeeze in those final games with oddball lists before 6th ed hits and everyone is scrambling to figure out what are the new top dog builds in every codex.
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