Iron Within! Iron Without!

[knight (M.I.A)]

Hello again. I'm back.

Well I came up with some Chaos list and some C&C would be nice. Its actually made for the GW Generals, but most players here don't play hard tournament lists anyways...

Ok right to the start and afterwards I'll give some input on my ideas how to field them.


Chaos Lord - Daemon Weapon, Meltabombs (135pts)

9 Khorne Berserkers - Champion, Power Weapon (219pts)

10 CSM - IoCG, Champion, Powerfist, Combiflamer, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino (265pts)

10 CSM - IoCG, Champion, Powerfist, Combiflamer, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino (265pts)

Land Raider - Additional Armour Plating (235pts)

2 Obliterators (150pts)

3 Terminators - Reaper Autocannon

3 Terminators - Reaper Autocannon

Total 1499pts


Ok first of all it looks a bit uncommon, especially the Terminators. But now about my tactics.

The Lord and the Berserkers are going out together in the Land Raider (they will not pose as direct Berserkers, but as some kind of Iron Warriors trenchfighters/breakers). Hopefully they will get close enough to do some serious assaulting.

The normal squads will go out and hunt everything that gets in their way and also take and hold mission objectives. With their Rhinos it shouldn't be too hard to get anywhere fast enough, especially since the Land Raider and the Terminators will draw a lot of fire, and also the Obliterators tend to turn quite big firemagnets.

Obliterators... either working in tandem or single, well 'nuff said...

And now my favourites... the Terminators. Their sole mission is to start on the flanks of my main force as footsloggers and advance and put constant pressure on enemy infantry (especially light and medium infantry) and also force the enemy to watch out for his transports as the Reapers tend to shred most of the lighter vehicles especially when shooting sides. They are a bit tricky to move and deploy since they will be slower than most of my main force and also drawing quite a bit of fire away from the main force

Not tested the whole idea yet, but I think it should work vs most enemies, even if GK will most likely rip my butt wide open as they are a pain to fight...

[WestRider]

First, a few tweaks that don't really change the structure of the list: I'd drop Extra Armour, a Berzerker, and maybe the Icons to add a bunch of Combi-Meltas on the Vehicles and Terminators. They really add a surprising amount of extra threat to the combined Unit, and make the Rhinos way more of a threat if they drop their Squad off somewhere.

Now, if I were running this myself, I'd actually change things up a bit more drastically. For my CSM Squads, I've recently switched to:
- 5xCSM, Meltagun, Aspiring Champion with Combi-Melta, Rhino with Combi-Melta
Amazingly useful for 155 Points. Swap one of the Combi-Weapons for a Flamer on one Rhino in three or so for a bit of Horde control.

Now three of those in place of your two existing CSM Squads leaves us with 65 Points to play with. Dropping extra Armour takes that up to 80 Points. Add two Combi-Meltas and a ChainFist to each Terminator Squad with 50 of them, and then put Icons back in the CSM squads. Gives the Terminators a much broader threat profile, and lets you Deep Strike them accurately to support the relatively weak CSM Squads when called for.

Overall, it drops some mediocre Assault capability in return for a lot more Transport cracking options, so the real Assault Unit can more reliably go to town on what spills out.

[knight (M.I.A)]

Taking out the Additional Armour has some reason I agree.
But I totally disagree on the Rhinos and squad sizes and absolutely on theAT capabilities I'm actually more worried about having too much AT instead of Anti Infantry in this list.
The Terminator upgrade would also be a really reasonable thing to do. Just have to find a few places to dig up points from.

Arming Rhinos with combi weapons is quite a noobish mistake. They tend to not live long enough especially in an mechanized list. They will be target for quite everything unable to kill the LR and therefore get weapons destroyed results quite often so they will have to be as cheap as possible, which would make it a naked Rhino.

Extra Armour in the LR is pretty senseless as you already noted Westrider, wonder why I haven't seen this before...

IoCG is pretty much a must I think as we're not fearless or "Shall know no fear". If we run or get pinned... well we run or get pinned then, that can screw up quite a few games if it happens in the worst time... and I hate Rangers for a reason...

[WestRider]

You're the first person I've heard say that Rhinos tend to get shot down too fast to use their Combi-Weapons. Most Chaos Players I know swear by them, and I don't think I've personally ever had a Game where I lost them before unloading at least 2/3 of them.

[knight (M.I.A)]

Seems to be a local phenomena then. Over here you will hardly ever see a Rhino with a weapon on it, regardless if Loyalist or Chaos unless by new players. Also most of the people I have seen in tournaments and writing tactics advices say that the only useful version of a Rhino is a naked Rhino and that has also to do with the fact that you get almost a new CSM for the combi weapon that only deals one shot with its special ability.
Also In a mechanized list you have to deal with like 4-5 vehicles as opponent. All real heavy things that can shoot hard go for the Land Raider sure thing. But now what will all those S5 weapons that can reach out that far. Hell a Tau could even go for them with his STANDARD ISSUE RIFLE and put them out quite fast. There are plenty of weapons that can kill Rhinos and against a mechanized army they all have for 1-2 turns nothing else to do than shooting Rhinos. I'm normally glad if one of my Rhinos is doing anything else but being a standing piece of junk somewhere on the field. If a Rhino now also shoots or even kills a single model for me it has bought back more than its points.