Basilisk useless? or am I dumb

[sgtsamvimes]

Hey soldiers,

I'm new to guard, but looking over our artillery options, it seems to me that the Basilisk is gimped by its 36" minimum range.

I remember back in 3rd edition (last time I played) That thing was the most feared and deadly piece of gunnery on the board, but now it seems like literally ANY other option is more versatile.

Am I missing something here?

[Peter Cooman]

That's the minimum range for INDIRECT fire. You can always fire it normally of course

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Page 58 in the rule book should clear things up for you. Like Pete has said, minimum range only counts for indirect fire.

[Wraelis]

Yeah, I thought the same thing when the current codex came out. They're still awesome

[buddha]

Get two squadrons of three in the table corners in apoc and you'll see it hasn't lost its edge.

[Wraelis]

Buddha, you're alive! I feel like I haven't seen you around here in ages

[buddha]

Been lurking a little everyday, just never had anything to say.

[Paimon]

By two, you mean three squadrons of three right? And by back corner you mean front line blaze of glory run right?

[buddha]

I tried that as a joke against a 4,000pt monster nid army. While it last it was awe-inspiring in its glory, but when they got within arms length it wasn't as glorious.

I did win though, and it was funny.

[bman]

Bassies are good. We played a 20,000pt per side apoc, my Bassies killed to eldar super heavies for a total of 1,100pts and imobilized an eldar Titan (couldn't touch the skullhamma though).

[Paimon]

20000 points of basilisks sounds pretty awesome to me.

[sgtsamvimes]

Ah, I don't have the rulebook. I just took up 40k a few weeks ago after a long-ass hiatus (3rd edition) and didnt see the point of getting the rulebook since A) I dont have a full army yet, and B) there's a new edition this summer I've been told, so rather than learning rules and then changing editions I'll just grab the new rool book and start fresh.

knew there had to be something I was missing, otherwise it'd be pretty easy to get within 36" of the thing and deny its shots. Its a funny mental picture though, that huge long barrel aiming horizontally instead of vertically.... make my day, punk!

[bman]

Jun 9, 2012 11:04:00 GMT -5 Paimon said:

20000 points of basilisks sounds pretty awesome to me.

Ahh, I see what I missed, i only had three, less than 400 pts.

[Aeon]

Jun 8, 2012 18:47:17 GMT -5 Paimon said:

By two, you mean three squadrons of three right? And by back corner you mean front line blaze of glory run right?

love the way you think, Paimon

I'm more into tanks than I am into artillery, because of the survivability factor, but there really isn't much in the Imperial Guard that beats a basilisk howitzer in terms of range and damage output. There are some things better suited for certain roles, like the Colossus, for MEQ killing, but the Basilisk can kill armour, infantry, MEQs, APCs, hordes, heroes. you name it, whether it's right in front of your face or 280" away across the room on another game's table, the Basilisk can kill it

[vulpine]

Defo still a good tank. Two for the cost of a kitted Russ. St10!

Other ordnance option would be two squads of mortars.

[Melissia]

Bassies still have it. Use direct fire if they're within three feet.

Actually I'd say use direct fire if at all possible, but YMMV....

[Aeon]

I agree with Melissia, direct fire at all costs. You only indirect if you're trying to hit someone who is hidden behind cover.

Vulpine: I believe it's S9, my good man

[Peter Cooman]

Yup bassie strength 9, demolisher strength 10. The coolness of the bassie makes up for it though

[matelloco]

And what about medusas ?

They seem to be sharp too

[magot]

this is what it is according to WESTRIDER and he is right imo
remember the Basilisk is a Barrage Weapon


Try your best to delete the 5th Ed Barrage Rules from your mind. The 6th Ed ones are better, but they're completely different. Trying to learn them as an adaptation will just cause confusion.

Barrage Weapons work exactly like direct-fire Blast Weapons, except for the following differences:
- Cover and Wound Allocation are resolved from the center of the Blast Marker instead of the firing Model.
- Vehicles are always hit on Side Armour.
- They cause Pinning.

Those three are easy. The big difference is the first one listed in the book, but I've left it for last because it's where things get confusing.
- Barrage Weapons can fire at Units that are out of LoS or within any Minimum Range they have Listed. If they do so, they don't subtract their BS from the Scatter. This is "shooting Indirectly". That term now means something entirely different to what it meant in 5th.

There no longer exists any option to fire Barrages as normal Blasts. There no longer exists any restriction on moving and firing Barrages, beyond the usual restrictions on moving and firing.

If you're firing a single Barrage, and your question wasn't covered by one of those points, it's worked out exactly like a regular Blast Weapon.

You do not get to "choose" to fire Indirectly as such. That choice is made when you pick your Target Unit. If that Unit is out of LoS or within the Minimum Range of the closest firing Barrage Weapon, you're firing Indirectly. End of story, no further choices to be made.

So Basically you can shoot at anything in range, only thing is that sometimes you loose your Balistic Skill for the scatter.
Besides that you can´t shoot directly on units within the minumum rage, that´s 5th.

[dragoon6]

I want to traslate this a little to make sure I understand. There are two possible interpretations that i can make out of your post:

1A. You cannot fire at units that are closer than your minimum range. At all.

1B. You may fire at units that are closer than the minimum range ONLY if you have LOS

OR

2. You may fire at any target, ignoring minimum range (but not maximum range) and line of Sight restrictions that may be present, but ignoring such constitues "Indirect Fire" under the terms of that rule, and you may not take your Balistics Skill into account while resolving the shot.



In addition all shooting from such weapons gain the benefits quoted any time it fires, whether "Indirectly" or not, unless special rules on the target unit modify them:

"- Cover and Wound Allocation are resolved from the center of the Blast Marker instead of the firing Model.
- Vehicles are always hit on Side Armour.
- They cause Pinning."


Dear god please oh PLEASE tell me it's the second....

Dragoon 6

[Deathkorpsman]

Option 2 is correct.

[dragoon6]

Wow....alright then. That kinda makes my day!

Dragoon 6

[Colonel Scipio]

Good to hear some clearing up on this after the understandable confusion from the start of 6th. Have to say I'm a MASSIVE Basilisk fan, basically have an artillery army.

The min 36" is actually useful for forcing your opponent to do something he doesn't want. Eg: recent game, deployed the basilisks exactly 36" from the FAR END of the objective building (a massive 12"x12" building) - that is, if he's IN the objective he's safe from barraging because of the minimum range - if he's on the EDGE or FURTHER away he's liable to be blasted to smithereens. The double draw of it being the objective and it being safe from Basilisk fire meant that by turn 3 there was a massive concentration of infantry on it, hiding from artillery fire - easy pickings for mortars and heavy mortars.

Anything that makes your opponent do something he wouldn't otherwise do is of course great - especially if in doing so he thinks he's getting one over on you. The minimum range of Basilisks is perfect for encouraging enemies to get close to avoid an Earthshaker shot ... only for them to realise they have an entire Guard gun line within 36" of them now.

[Deathkorpsman]

Jul 16, 2012 10:01:28 GMT -5 Colonel Scipio said:

Good to hear some clearing up on this after the understandable confusion from the start of 6th. Have to say I'm a MASSIVE Basilisk fan, basically have an artillery army.

The min 36" is actually useful for forcing your opponent to do something he doesn't want. Eg: recent game, deployed the basilisks exactly 36" from the FAR END of the objective building (a massive 12"x12" building) - that is, if he's IN the objective he's safe from barraging because of the minimum range - if he's on the EDGE or FURTHER away he's liable to be blasted to smithereens. The double draw of it being the objective and it being safe from Basilisk fire meant that by turn 3 there was a massive concentration of infantry on it, hiding from artillery fire - easy pickings for mortars and heavy mortars.

Anything that makes your opponent do something he wouldn't otherwise do is of course great - especially if in doing so he thinks he's getting one over on you. The minimum range of Basilisks is perfect for encouraging enemies to get close to avoid an Earthshaker shot ... only for them to realise they have an entire Guard gun line within 36" of them now.

That's part of the confusion, Basilisks now only have a 36" minimum range for Direct Fire. If a target is inside the minimum range, or out of LOS, then the attack is made with Indirect Fire and loses BS on scatter. And whether you fire directly or indirectly, the attack is still from a Barrage weapon and so causes Pinning, hits on side armor, and allocates wounds from the center of the blast. It is odd and probably wasn't intentional. I expect them to address it with the first FAQ, though I won't hold my breath.