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Post by Peter Cooman on Jun 25, 2012 16:17:43 GMT -5
Because you then have a big crater unfit for placing a bastion Yeah gunline will always be there. If not for it's potency, it will be for the fluff. We are the guard. We die in dozens or we don't, no way in between. FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!!!!! Sounds better from hundreds of throaths anyway
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Post by Julian Sharps on Jul 1, 2012 12:14:45 GMT -5
After having taken a look at the appropriate rules (specifically Stealth, defensive grenades, Sniper weapons and the FAQ ruling on camo cloaks), I can now say that sniper vets are actually worthwhile now.
For 135 points (190 if you give them Harker), you have a superb multi-role long-range unit, as follows:
- Forward Sentries - 3x Sniper Rifles - 1x Lascannon
As you know, the Forward Sentries doctrine gives the squad Camo Cloaks and Defensive Grenades. Now according to the FAQ, Camo Cloaks no longer confer the Stealth USR, but instead grant a +1 bonus to the unit's cover save. While it's technically the same thing as Stealth, it has the added benefit of being stackable with it. Now, the rules for Defensive Grenades have changed slightly as well. In addition to denying assaulters any benefit from charging, Defensive Grenades also grant the unit that uses them the Stealth USR, provided that any unit shooting at them is not within 8". With a +2 bonus to any cover save (or a 5+ cover save in the open), as well as five ablative bodies to protect the sniper rifles and the lascannon, you suddenly have a very survivable scoring unit.
Now, the selection of support weapons is a little more fuzzy, so bear with me. When I realized that it's now fairly easy for such a squad to get a 3+ or better cover save, I figured that its best application would be with long-to-mid-range firepower. With that in mind, I chose the best long-range AT gun our infantry can take: the lascannon. With BS 4, veterans have just as much luck as Space Marines hitting with it, and if there's a senior officer nearby, the vets have a good chance of being able to twin-link it when shooting at vehicles or monstrous creatures (or flying monstrous creatures, as the FAQ clarified). With the lascannon decided, I needed to select special weapons that would mesh well with both the role of the unit, as well as the lascannon. Flamers and meltaguns had too short a range, plasma guns likewise didn't have the range I needed (and they also had the unfortunate tendency to blow up in their users' faces), and while grenade launchers were tempting, they also didn't have the range I needed, and they wouldn't be all that useful as an Overwatch weapon. So, this left me with the much-maligned and often forgotten sniper rifle. The sniper rifle's range wasn't that much shorter than the lascannon's, they were cheap and they had a surprising amount of utility, especially under the new rules.
This unit's primary role is an anti-tank/anti-MC long-range objective holder, or to be more precise, objective camper, as they would probably be best placed in a location with both lots of available cover and line of sight to at least one objective. While the sniper rifles aren't the best weapon to use against vehicles, they are still capable of glancing up to AV 12 thanks to Rending. As a result, when shooting at vehicles, this should be considered a bonus instead of a critical part of the plan. Obviously, sniper rifles are fantastic anti-MC weapons because they always wound on a 4+, and in this role they mesh with the lascannon nicely.
As for secondary uses, the squad has excellent potential for taking out independent characters and support specialists in squads. On a to-hit roll of a 6, a shot from a sniper weapon may be allocated to any model the firer wishes, rather than as per normal wound allocation. While this is great for taking out special and heavy weapons, as well as medics, standard bearers and any other support units, it's not all that great for taking out unit leaders and independent characters thanks to the Look Out, Sir! rule, as there is a chance that the wound in question would simply be allocated to another model in the squad instead. So, the sniper rifles and the lasguns are to be used primarily to eliminate the squad surrounding a character, and then applying the blessed lascannon to the character's face when he has no one left to hide behind.
So, we have a unit that is practically implacable while in cover, with utility against vehicles, monstrous creatures, and characters surrounded by a squad. Personally, I think it makes for an interesting alternative to melta vets.
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Post by Aeon on Jul 1, 2012 18:33:38 GMT -5
Sharps, you're a genius I wouldn't have thought Necrons cared about battlefield defence, but I don't know what Ward did to them, nor do I want to he..he he he hehehe....he bent them over, and then he put his.....he put his..... *breaks down into tears of rage and madness* Ward (and I stutter as I say his name, for he is a being of Chaos and the Warp), didn't goof the Necrons nearly as bad as he goofed the Grey Knights...
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Jul 1, 2012 18:40:05 GMT -5
Sharps, That sounds like an interesting tactic...I like it!
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Post by vegna on Jul 1, 2012 18:44:35 GMT -5
effects of 6th edition on the Ork battle cry:
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!"
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Jul 1, 2012 19:37:19 GMT -5
effects of 6th edition on the Ork battle cry: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!" xeno lover!
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Post by vegna on Jul 1, 2012 19:41:40 GMT -5
effects of 6th edition on the Ork battle cry: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!" xeno lover! only xenos i have are from AoBR! and I'm the one against using allies! I will await the codex to see how bad things have gone
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Jul 1, 2012 20:20:21 GMT -5
only xenos i have are from AoBR! and I'm the one against using allies! I will await the codex to see how bad things have gone LOL!
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jul 1, 2012 22:41:23 GMT -5
Can Allies be from the same codex? A way to get more slots for force organization perhaps?
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Post by Julian Sharps on Jul 2, 2012 0:32:34 GMT -5
No. Allies must be taken from other codexes.
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Post by vegna on Jul 2, 2012 2:59:42 GMT -5
but the rummor is the FoC pretty much doubles in size at 2k point.
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Post by vulpine on Jul 2, 2012 3:39:59 GMT -5
The cheap mortar! If tanks are easier to damage and the st if the blast is not just the centre hole anymore... It's still st 4 mind
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Post by treadiculous on Jul 2, 2012 4:57:51 GMT -5
-- Peter -- I meant that if a bastion could be placed on request to help defend against an army that was marching upon your dug in defenders, surely deploying a large explosive deep into thier lines would be more effective use of the aircraft and its sizeable transport capacity.. I guess it was a mental image that doesn't really work. A bastion is a permanant fixture, where as an explosion last moments and the gap in their lines is rapidly filled by more foul screaming xenos scum.
reading bat reps that are coming in, vehilces are being glanced to death very quickly, assaults are being shot down by massed overwatch and challenges are not very popular.
psychic powers are potentially devastating, but due to the random choosing they are less predictable - so many folk take the default or stick with teir own codex. (eg: the eldar psykers with mastery of 2 might take the better version of guide that is the default power in the 6th ed book, but probably not since the risk is losing doom from their codex powers and not getting anything better in return)
Here's a quote from 40kOnline .. bu User: The_Unseen:
"A few interesting points to make when I played my first 6th ed game, with a 5th ed mechanised army:
Lemans rock, for two reasons: a) There's no more getting stunlocked/shakenlocked by pesky glancing hits! They just make me lose a hull point now. Also, shaken + stunned is also more friendly to Lemans (at least you can fire snapshots...).
b) Blast weapons, well, blast apart tanks now. A blast marker doesn't need to have its center point over the opposing tanks' hulls to use its full strength! It means that even in a blast marker scatter ~4" they still hit tanks with full stength using ordanace rules for penetration!
My general thoughts to using a IG army now: 1. Infantry blobs, and more infantry in general 2. With tank lines to back up my infantry. 3. With a techpriest to fix the tanks. 4. Command squads + Lord Commissar for Orders ("why?" you ask, "the lord commissar?" Check out his new FAQ rules, and how they effect orders). 5. No chimeras (no more meltavets, boo), but more lascannon "Bring it Down!" teamns (with Lord Commissar Bonus). 6. Aegis Defence lines 7. Vendettas for AT
Another note: Camo cloaks give you +1 cover save now, instead of stealth. Does that mean Harker + Forward Sentries = +2 Cover save?
Yet another note: Hydras are now effective, as it says in the IG codex "swatting enemy aircraft" with their Skyfire rule. Will be using these too."
Interesting.
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Pyrotechnics
Captain
Let the promethium burn it to a cinder!
Posts: 238
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Post by Pyrotechnics on Jul 2, 2012 8:24:32 GMT -5
My friend read out the psychic powers to me over ventrilo (I'm going to take a Primaris for our first 6th ed. game this weekend and try them out, but I didn't tell him that, shh.) and from what I heard, the new psychic powers could be really useful. This weekend, I'll also assess how much more devastating a manticore is with the new blast rules, as well as a basic Russ, and I'm also interested in seeing how Flyers work (never played Apoc).
Speaking of which, can we use Grav-Chute Insertion while zooming?
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Jul 2, 2012 10:08:24 GMT -5
Yay! Techpriests are useful. Wanted one for ages but they were just a pointsink in 5th.
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Jacob
Conscript
Posts: 40
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Post by Jacob on Jul 6, 2012 11:57:55 GMT -5
Didn't Lord Commissar's already do that? I coulda sworn that before I used to know a lot about IG my start was a Lord Commissar next to two HeavyWep teams that I would order. Didn't turn out too well. Also I couldn't disagree more about the Hydra being the new "yaaay". Being Skyfire it now only hits ground units at BS1, unless Flyer's become veeeery meta (which I heard that they will become, i've heard that a New Necron meta will be 6 flyer's) that one guy could just take no Flyer's and suddenly you are sitting on 100 and odd points that literally does NOTHING to help you.
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Post by sgtsamvimes on Jul 6, 2012 13:33:28 GMT -5
Hydras are dirt-cheap, and have a heavy bolter on them for ground fightin'. They can also fire on skimmers and flying MCs, so they aren't useless at all. If you somehow find yourself facing an enemy with no fliers or skimmers or flying MCs AT ALL, just rush in, fire heavy bolter and tank shock. In that rare circumstance it becomes a distraction/harrasment unit. I'm pretty sure Lord Commissars always shared their leadership.... Is there something else I'm missing? Grav Chute Insertion remains un-errata'd, so it works exactly like it says. I wont get into it here, but I posted my understanding of it in another thread: commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Eylsians&action=display&thread=15696
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Post by Rook on Jul 6, 2012 19:39:41 GMT -5
Hey buddy please take out the point cost for the Hydra because GW frowns on that kind of thing.
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