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Post by AshotNINJA on Sept 21, 2012 20:06:46 GMT -5
ok... im officially fed up with plasma weapons...
heres my issue... they keep killing themselves...
perhaps im just unlucky for some reason but im now removing all plasma weapons from my lists...
firstly my reasons...
ive played 6 games now and was running my CCS with 4 plasmaguns and the commander with plasma pistol... as well as a veteren squad with 3 plasmaguns and a plasma pistol... by the 3rd turn my whole CCS managed to kill themselves because of the gets hot rule and fail their armour saves... also.. while trying to take out a squad of marines, my vet squad, with only the 3 plasmaguns and the sergent left fired and the three plamaguns died in a single shooting phase... with only the sergent left, the marines charged him and when snap shooting at the charging marines, managed to kill himself yet again with the gun overheating and failing a save (guess he couldnt handle the pressure and shot himself-derp)
and this was only in one game... this has been a pretty frequent issue with my troops and have decided to switch to grenade launchers insted as they seem safer...
does anyone else have this problem?
i try to absorb as much information that i read on this forum and many of you swear by plasma weapons... but im seeing that theres perhaps more cons than pros with these ...
for me... the use of grenade launchers insted of plasma are.. pros- cheaper points cost choice of anti troop blast (although weak) choice of a harder hitting krak round can damage most troops seems to be an all purpose gun of many talents, but master of feth all. dosnt blow up in my hands.
cons - less strenght with str 6 krak rounds rather than the str 7 plasma. cannot rapid fire (although that is what usually makes me roll 1's) no more cool blue osl paintjobs...
so tell me what you think... am i right to switch? or should i be changing my dice as they obviousley hate me.
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Post by Rook on Sept 21, 2012 20:41:22 GMT -5
Try fielding a Medic with your CCS instead of a Plasma and see if you like the results.
I am a fan of the right tool for the job. Yes, plasma is lethal but I almost always field GLs instead for the same reasons you have described.
You can't fire LESS shots with a model. Meaning you have to fire the weapon to it's fullest effect. You could always decide to fire less MODELS each time and see if that improves.
Let's see if my math is correct:
Each shot from a plasma has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding you. Of those you will make 1/3 of them with an armor save for a non-upgraded guardsmen(vet doesn't matter at all for this).
So 1/6 = .166 .166 x .666 = .1111
So just over 11% of the time a guardsman in flak armor is killing himself due to plasma.
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Post by macknight on Sept 21, 2012 20:49:56 GMT -5
plasma is worth it on the CCS, i usually run commander with plasma pistol, 3 plasma guns and a medic; if i run plasma vets, i leave the sgt plain and give them carapace if i have the pts. i find that the AP2 is worth the risk provide some protection.
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Post by Rook on Sept 21, 2012 21:08:31 GMT -5
Alternatively you could swap out 1 plasma in each squad for a different weapon and pay attention to the results. This I would say is the best idea. You could, game by game, see the results of each weapon and decide much more logically and numerically.
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Post by Ponen19 on Sept 21, 2012 21:27:31 GMT -5
This is the reason I don't run much plasma, I roll enough ones as it is, don't need my troops blowing themselves up. Rook made a good point with the medic, gives you two chances to save your men. If that doesn't work maybe switch the plasma out for melta guns. You lose some range, but you gain more STR and AP for those overwatch shots and get some of the points back from the plasma guns.
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Post by WestRider on Sept 21, 2012 22:00:46 GMT -5
I run Plasma in my main Fire Support Platoon, but they virtually always have either Bring It Down or Prescience going.
I recently stopped running a Plasma CCS because they've killed several of themselves, broken, and run off the table two out of the last three Games.
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Post by Rook on Sept 21, 2012 22:42:28 GMT -5
How are you getting the Divination domain with a Psyker?
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Post by Ponen19 on Sept 21, 2012 22:44:39 GMT -5
What is this? What source are you drawing from? Psyker thing, allows rerolls if I'm remembering right.
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Post by Rook on Sept 21, 2012 22:48:50 GMT -5
What is this? What source are you drawing from? Psyker thing, allows rerolls if I'm remembering right. Yes just saw that. It isn't anything OUR Codex allows. He must be using allies.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Sept 21, 2012 22:55:34 GMT -5
For me the pay off is usually worth it, spread em around to avoid rolling too many at once. I rarely take a CCS loaded up with plasma, I usually stick them in a couple of vet squads, and I skip the plasma pistols. Redudancy and slightly fewer chances to over heat per roll is how I deal with the problem.
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Post by dangerrod on Sept 21, 2012 23:42:20 GMT -5
I love the Plasma Guns maxed out in a vet squad, It's just a game of luck really when it comes to Gets Hot rolls. I've had whole games where nothing has happened and then other games where everybody kills themselves.
I play mainly against Nids, Tau and SM so high strength low AP is always worth taking regardless of risks.
As with Ymmot, I only use them in Vet Squads
Also, I've actually managed to take down a Valkyrie with rapid firing snapshots from a Plasma Vet Squad (using BiD as well) and not one of them suffered Gets Hot, the Emperor was with me that day!!!!!
Danger Rod
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wulfric
Lieutenant
For the Emperor!
Posts: 135
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Post by wulfric on Sept 22, 2012 3:02:50 GMT -5
I'm good with plasma in my veteran squads; it's part of the risk.
I wouldn't max out on plasma in the CCS, simply because I don't need to make it any easier for my opponent to get the 'warlord' VP!
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Post by WestRider on Sept 22, 2012 10:43:19 GMT -5
Psyker thing, allows rerolls if I'm remembering right. Yes just saw that. It isn't anything OUR Codex allows. He must be using allies. Yeah, I've been using Space Wolf Allies in most games. Rune Priests are awesome with Guard, and having a Scoring Unit that's durable, but still has a small footprint is very useful as well.
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Post by treadiculous on Sept 23, 2012 13:04:48 GMT -5
I used to field a Plasma gun.. he went alongside my equally inept lascannon team in my Command Squad... while the lascannon missed he would kill himself rapidly in every game.
These day I don't go near plasma myself, thoughj I can see its merits if you are facing Mega Armoured Nobs, Terminators etc etc.. I don't .. I face Orks, Guard and occasionally Marines so the AP2 isn't an issue.
I also feel that massed lasfire is better against high AP targets.. and is m5y answer to anything that isn't a tank!
Grenade Launchers are awesome, I really really like them!
I will field plasma units in apocalypse games though since I can expect decent return from them.
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Post by glutebite on Sept 26, 2012 17:00:05 GMT -5
I have to laugh.... My CCS squad had 3 meltas, a medic, Straken (Warlord) and master of ordnance in it and was just charged by a single Chaos Terminator with Lucious (Warlord) (the only 2 left in the squad due to some fortuitous firing in previous turn). Lucious had 1 wound left.
All my shots miss except 2 meltas (double sixes was real nice). He fails his saves on both models and I kill his squad.
The look of disgust was priceless.......
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Sept 27, 2012 0:11:36 GMT -5
I used plasma in the previous guard codex, when I had to take ten man squads and they were 10 points.
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Post by badgersplatter on Sept 27, 2012 6:17:54 GMT -5
I used a squad of plasma vets for the first time in my last game. They were the most effective unit out, and got me a warlord VP.
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wulfric
Lieutenant
For the Emperor!
Posts: 135
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Post by wulfric on Sept 27, 2012 9:11:19 GMT -5
I used plasma vets this week, and all three of them killed themselves from inside a Chimera while firing at a marine tactical squad. I had a little vision in my head of steam pouring out of the hatches...
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wulfric
Lieutenant
For the Emperor!
Posts: 135
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Post by wulfric on Sept 27, 2012 9:11:20 GMT -5
I used plasma vets this week, and all three of them killed themselves from inside a Chimera while firing at a marine tactical squad. I had a little vision in my head of steam pouring out of the hatches...
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Post by velikicovjek on Sept 27, 2012 16:48:07 GMT -5
Well i strongly suggest using ccs with full plasma + comander with p.pistol. My arguments (from experience) are: 1.) If your opponent knows what this squad can do to his heavy hitters (ranged or cc, i doesn't matter) hell stay away from them to the very end. 2.) If he tries to get close then your cheap unit will eventually evaporate them (and maybe kill themselves in the process. 3.) You have orders This unit combined with one unit of vets with plasmas gives you the much required redundancy ig relays upon so much. I say its all about psychology; take for example standard russ... its is a great , sorry THE BEST, tank in the game, buy also the worst f***** piece of S*** if it misses. But it is also has arguably the best FEAR FACTOR in the game and with that u fck up your opponents game. The trick i to use your plasma mayhem the way you use russes... if u manage to trick your enemies to fear them you've already won. they will f*** up their deployment, movement, and shooting faze just because of that. I've manage to do that in 2 of my 4 regular opponents/ friends and now enjoy to watch them fck up their every move while my 2 russes CCS AND PLASMA VETS are still alive (in the last game i played plasma ccs didn't fire a shot:)))). And the best thing is, if you somehow manage to loose all that in 1st 2 turns, in 9 times of 10 you outnumber them at least 2 to 1. Hope my blabbering helped:)
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Post by zeke on Sept 27, 2012 19:04:46 GMT -5
I use the x4 plasma CCS, and I'm kinda meh about it.
Some games they roll great, and kill a lot and lose 1 or so.
Other games, they have a bad case of stormtrooper syndrome and can't hit the broad size of a battleship ten feet away from them. Either way, I stick with the plasma CCS because I've had mixed results, but more better than worse.
Speaking of which, I have a quick question regarding plasma: If I get 2 shots for the plasma (rapid fire), and roll both, and hit one but overheat the second, do I still get that first hit? Or is it nulled out and I have to roll for the save?
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Post by WestRider on Sept 28, 2012 8:37:23 GMT -5
Yes, you still get the one hit. They're done simultaneously, so all the results stand.
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Post by Rook on Sept 28, 2012 19:21:26 GMT -5
Yes, you still get the one hit. They're done simultaneously, so all the results stand. This is the way it looks to me as well. Check out the grey portion on page 12. Step 3 is roll to hit. Step 4 is roll to wound. You won't be rolling here(with a normal guardsman)because it causes an instant wound but it would be during this step anyways.
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Post by lordbeefy on Nov 2, 2012 4:18:39 GMT -5
First time poster, long time IG player offering an opinion.
Plasma for command squads....just accept there are big chances for dath by self immolation. The occasions they do hit and kill will more than make up for it.
Grenade Launchers are the ideal special weapon for line squads, paired with an autocannon. You are absolutely right about their multi role capability. Look at the stats, they are the guard equivalent of a high powered bolter when firing krak and reasonable multi target engagement with frag.
Where GLs really shine are in veteran squads. Seriously, I run a firebase vet squad of Harker, 3 x GL and an autocannon. This unit scoots around the battlefield in a chimera or valk and can engage anything up to medium armour and can be dropped in key terrain, firelanes etc.
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Post by commisarblur on Nov 5, 2012 16:16:04 GMT -5
I'm going with the suggestion a long time Guard vet told me last week and just put the plasmas in the CCS with a medic. My alt. C.C has a plasma pistol so with three additional shots and cara armor these guys would work well as back up.
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