|
Post by hendrik on Nov 5, 2012 17:05:27 GMT -5
during my last battle i was facing necrons. by turn 3 his c'tan shard and one of those walking spiders + scarabs swarms were wreaking havoc inside my DZ, clearing out my troops from my objective when my veterans in their chimera decided to show up. their 3 plasma rifles (and some delicious dicerolling) and their chimera removed the c'tan in their first turn on board, and destroyed that spider-droid-thingy in the turn after. together with my wolf guard terminators they saved the game
|
|
|
Post by badgersplatter on Nov 7, 2012 7:09:44 GMT -5
I'm going with the suggestion a long time Guard vet told me last week and just put the plasmas in the CCS with a medic. My alt. C.C has a plasma pistol so with three additional shots and cara armor these guys would work well as back up. I saw someone post the maths on this a while ago. Turns out that a 4th plasma instead of the medic gives you more extra shots over an average game than the medic would make up for in keeping guys alive.
|
|
|
Post by vegna on Nov 7, 2012 8:53:19 GMT -5
in the new medic rules, yeah it will as its a 1/3 chance of saving them now rather than 1/2.
|
|
|
Post by melta Trooper on Jan 5, 2013 13:43:48 GMT -5
i like the models and the glowy stuff from plasma but i will run melta and GLs instead of plasma if i look at the c&c on this thread never run them before and will try them out but meltas in a chimera could do the job as well?
|
|
|
Post by Julian Sharps on Jan 5, 2013 16:46:54 GMT -5
With the Corvis, I have consistently had great success with plasma guns in both the old codex and the new one. Granted, the 08th Corvis were carapace-armored heavy infantry with a lot of veterans, so plasma was more worthwhile with them, but I still loved them like my own children; i.e. throw them at a problem until it goes away, and give the survivors who succeed a curt nod of approval (there has been some question over my fitness to raise children properly).
As for the Imperial Guard Assault Corps, I haven't seen the need to include plasma as my planned force has quite a lot of weapons that fill the high-strength and/or low AP roles, and there are enough infantry to allow substantial overlap (I'd also have to find the points somewhere, which might cause problems with the rest of my build). I do, however, want to run a plasma vet squad someday where the sergeant (Master Sergeant Buff "Sergeant Badass" Drinklots, or something to that effect) is packing twin plasma pistols (because the new rules for pistols allow a model equipped with two of them to fire both at full BS).
I remember one time under the old codex when in a game against Space Marines, I made use of a Special Weapon Squad armed with three plasma guns in my Command Platoon. First round of shooting, two of my plasma gunners vaporized themselves with double overheats, while the last one scored a Marine kill. Next turn, the entire squad, with the exception of the plasma gunner, was wiped out by bolter fire, but that scrappy little badass survived the rest of the game with three Marine kills to his name.
Bear in mind that this was 4th edition, back when plasma guns overheated on 2s if they rapid fired, Guardsmen were 6 points each, Chimeras were usually 80+ points with worse fire points rules, you had to take a Command Platoon, and unless you mucked about with Grenadiers you had to take Infantry Platoons for your Troops choices (and they couldn't combine squads or take Chimeras, their sergeants were crap and all they came with was a lasgun and flak armor; grenades cost extra in those days).
Considering that one man alone made his points back for his entire squad, it was quite a feat for a mere Guardsman. Must've been recruited by the Marines, 'cause that model never performed that well again.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Jan 5, 2013 17:47:39 GMT -5
Plasma has never failed me. Except when it kills the guy holding it but that's worth the risk. I've always been on the plasma side of the plasma/melta argument. Not just because of the difference in range, tactical application and shots available, but also because plasma glows in the dark. Glow in the dark is always better.
|
|
|
Post by AshotNINJA on Jan 6, 2013 6:16:18 GMT -5
ive just realised how bad my grammer is when writing the name of the thread ... should had been 'are plasma weapons worth the risk' derp...
but after consideration to everyones veiws and such... im moving away from plasma weaponary... i think since 6th that flamers are really the way forward now... vet squads with 2 flamers and a heavy flamer getting charged can really do some damage to repel cc units... where as the same cant be said for plasma units getting charged cos they only hit on 6's, and still kill themselves on 1's ...
i know plasmaguns look cool... but they really aint worth the points ,over the fact that they are highly likely to melt their own faces off.
melta weapons are still pretty solid for their roles, as is a grenade launcher... but im heading more towards flamer templates now.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Jan 6, 2013 7:03:54 GMT -5
Each to their own dude, but personally I don't think you're pushing your guardsmen hard enough. My guys know that even if they melt their own faces off, I expect them to keep firing.
In all seriousness Flamers are and always have been a very solid option. Especially bolstered by a heavy Flamer in their midst. I keep my plasma guys because they look cool and GLOW IN THE FREAKIN DARK.
Paradill
|
|
|
Post by vegna on Jan 6, 2013 10:19:04 GMT -5
i keep plasma cuz they can fire before the enemy can hit me. plus they have different uses to me. Flamers are good against orks or nids but plasma is really to take out tough enemies with a good armour save.
|
|
|
Post by verminard on Jan 6, 2013 10:40:24 GMT -5
I love flamers on my large squads of 40 or more (4 flamers for overwatch is nice) but on my vets, plasma and melta all the way. These guys are in my army to absolutely destroy their target, and nothing shy of a one turn face punch is less than adequate for them. They are there to stop Terminators, Trygons, Deamon Princes and a whole host of other baddies that I can't reliably drop with lasguns. And to move deep into enemy territory with their chimera's to keep the pressure up on my opponent.
|
|
|
Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 6, 2013 20:02:32 GMT -5
I thought that flamers couldn't fire on overwatch? I vaguely recall reading this in the 6th edition rulebook shortly after it was released, and immediately before I stopped reading it?
|
|
|
Post by vegna on Jan 6, 2013 20:14:55 GMT -5
i heard they fire but dont use the template they get X auto hits (so basically the template :/ )
|
|
|
Post by AshotNINJA on Jan 6, 2013 20:20:00 GMT -5
yeah.. ok big rule book page 52... under wall of death...
template weapons can fire overwatch even though they cant fire snap shots, insted automatically inflicts d3 hits on charging unit.
i understand that that rule fully contridicts the earlier statment saying that weapons that cant fire snapshots cant fire overwatch... but it is there!
|
|
Sgt. Rock
Captain
Loungin' like a lizard.
Posts: 231
|
Post by Sgt. Rock on Jan 7, 2013 3:50:35 GMT -5
Yeah, the overwatching flamers thing seems a bit contradictory, but it makes sense. Trying to snap shot something like a frag missile, for example, would be a bit dodgy, but with a flamer, all you do is hold down the trigger and let the onrushing horde melt themselves. And those d3 autohits add up in a hurry, especially when you tack on 40-odd lasgun shots as well. I've had several assaults with my orks stalled by walls of burning pain from flamers.
Although I have yet to play a game with my Guard, I have to say, I tend to agree with Verminard. You've got these guys, they can take *three* special weapons, and they're BS 4. Giving them templates seems a bit... wasteful, y'know? If you need something to kill lots of infantry, that's what artillery and massed lasfire is for. As to the plasma being worth it, I've never really had much experience running it, being orky and all, but in the games I've played, my opponents who have run plasma generally don't suffer overmuch from the Gets Hot! rule. Sure, you might melt a guardsman or two, and yeah, they're expensive, but for the points, you get all but guaranteed kills on Terminators, Meganobz, Broadsides, and pretty much anything else, really. Meltas obviously hurt more, and are dead killy against armor, but that short range really limits their application. In that same 12", you can get two shots out of a plasma gun, and you're really not giving up much against anything but heavier vehicles.
Again, never played a game with Guard, salt to taste.
|
|
|
Post by Ignatius on Jan 7, 2013 19:22:20 GMT -5
I'm 110% in the plasma gun camp. I've always used a disgustingly large amount of it. And the fact that rapid fire weapons now fire their full distance even when moving only holds to reinforce my belief in them. There's nothing like playing an all terminator army and having the opponent realize just how many plasma guns you've brought to the table. I'd rather shoot 6 str 7 ap 2 shots from a vet squad at 12" (with one get hot) than 3 str 8 ap 1 shots from 12" in a turn. Past that range you can't shoot at all with a melts gun either.
The argument that if one gets hot then you lose your ability to use a special weapon the rest of the game compared to always having your melts guns can be counted by the fact that when your vet squad gets with 12" of its target, it probably won't survive at that range for long. Two, maybe three turns. But say you only get one turn of shooting before They are consumed by that writhing mass of khorne berserkers. So three shots. Sweet. Probably two dead marines. Compared to plasma guns, that'll be probably four dead marines. Twice as many!
So the fact that both kill termies, but one does it from twice as far, or has twice as many shots, I'd rather take plasma.
|
|
|
Post by verminard on Jan 9, 2013 11:47:01 GMT -5
I tend to try and keep a healthy mix of options. I love me some plasma, but the one striking thing that keeps coming back to haunt me is that it rarely gets around FNP for a marine now. Not to say its bad or anything but I like to keep them mixed so I can use the right weapon at the right time. Marines in 4+ cover with FNP, plasma has a good chance of kiling more of you than you kill of them. Melta, maybe has an advantage here. Same with Nobs and such for the instant death. Either way 6th really supports having a blend of special weapons to use in different occasions. Which is why I like it so much, gone are the all melta lists that frustrated me (on a fluff level) for so long.
|
|