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Post by bigbigdogbig on Oct 4, 2012 20:57:18 GMT -5
What do you think the changes will do to tank heavy guard lists (like mine), and what are your opinions?
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Post by WestRider on Oct 4, 2012 21:58:41 GMT -5
They help AV14 significantly, so Russ-based Lists are fans. Lighter armour, from AV12 on down, is notably easier to destroy now, so that's a bit of a knock.
That's not the whole story, tho. Because it's much harder to Stun/Shake/Destroy Weapons, Vehicles at all levels are likely to keep shooting most of the time until they die. So your Chimerae may all die by Turn 3, but most of them will have been firing at full effect during that time, instead of living to Turn 5, but spending most of the Game StunLocked.
Without regard to overall power level, what I really like about the Hull Point system is the greater consistency. No longer will I Shake a Rhino 12 times in a row, causing no permanent damage*. And on the flipside, it's much less common for one of my Chimerae to blow up the first time someone points a Missile Launcher at it. I can more easily plan for the effects of attacks on Vehicles, going both ways, which lets me use my Army more efficiently.
*This has been a long time problem for me. Dealing with the Vehicle Damage Tables has been the bane of my 40K career for 15 years, and getting to bypass that makes Hull Points possibly my favorite change in 40K since 2nd Ed was replaced by 3rd.
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Post by vegna on Oct 5, 2012 13:01:05 GMT -5
I dislike the loos of lumberign behemoth.
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Post by zeke on Oct 5, 2012 15:17:31 GMT -5
As do I. I just bought a bunch of sponsons like a week before they released the BRB. But the hull points seems to be good. Haven't played too much to test it out though
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Post by WestRider on Oct 5, 2012 18:06:14 GMT -5
I actually love the change to Lumbering Behemoth, myself. But then again, I've got 9 non-Ordnance Russ Turrets in my collection. Exterminators and Executioners are incredibly fun now.
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Post by vegna on Oct 6, 2012 9:51:50 GMT -5
I don't have the new rule book (and never will) so can't tell what the effects are of being heavy armour insted. but it still takes away the point of the basic russ is my annoyance.
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Post by hendrik on Oct 6, 2012 14:35:24 GMT -5
the loss of lumbering behemoth is codex related and not rulebook related. I like the changes that sixth brought with it. not only are my tanks better in destroying other tanks, but they'll also be firing longer!
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martin74
Conscript
where ever you go, there you are
Posts: 43
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Post by martin74 on Oct 8, 2012 21:00:02 GMT -5
With the recent changes in the FAQ/BRB, all of my basic LRBT have now been sitting on the shelf. However, the Exterminators, Punishers, and even now the Eradicator have a reason for being fielded more often. Yes, the two Exterminators and the two Punnishers are heavy bolter sponsoned. Nothing like moving 6 inches and firing a bunch of shots. 29 S5 punisher shots at BS. So much better than lumbering behemoth.
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Post by badgersplatter on Oct 9, 2012 6:13:58 GMT -5
It might be a hit to the big guy, but I'm certainly not shelving them. The battle cannon itself got a big boost in usefulness, so it probably evens out (or better) still. They likelihood of good effect after scatter is increased massively, which is a buff that something like the exterminator doesn't get.
Overall, I think the Executioner gets both the boost from heavy and the boost from blast rules, so it's become fun now!
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 9, 2012 12:42:01 GMT -5
I don't have the new rule book (and never will) so can't tell what the effects are of being heavy armour insted. but it still takes away the point of the basic russ is my annoyance. You must not play much if you can't be bothered to get a copy of the rules, so why does it even matter? |
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Post by dangerrod on Oct 9, 2012 18:24:40 GMT -5
It might be a hit to the big guy, but I'm certainly not shelving them. The battle cannon itself got a big boost in usefulness, so it probably evens out (or better) still. They likelihood of good effect after scatter is increased massively, which is a buff that something like the exterminator doesn't get. Overall, I think the Executioner gets both the boost from heavy and the boost from blast rules, so it's become fun now! I think your right, the executioner is the best tank we have now. Can move and fire all weapons and its x3 blast template/markers chew thru cheap transports and MEQ Danger Rod |
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Post by vegna on Oct 10, 2012 9:39:58 GMT -5
I don't have the new rule book (and never will) so can't tell what the effects are of being heavy armour insted. but it still takes away the point of the basic russ is my annoyance. You must not play much if you can't be bothered to get a copy of the rules, so why does it even matter? I have 5th edition rules. I'd rather not have spent £100 on two books when I could spend that on a horde or infantry or tanks. So my old list from 5th edition that I spent time working on and converting for is now useless due to the new changes. |
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 10, 2012 10:39:48 GMT -5
How is it usless, You stll have 1 HQ and two troop choices, right?
Lighten up. All this doom and gloom is depressing. Try ebay for a Dark Vengeance mini rule book if you are interested, you oughta be able to find it for a lot cheaper than the hard cover regular edition.
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Post by vegna on Oct 10, 2012 12:02:51 GMT -5
it's not doom and gloom when half the forces you were building, spent a lot of money to convert and then all the time to paint them and to then have it made to be useless. My russes have HB sponsons so ill need to break them off, which will damage their hull and keave a nasty mark and ruin the paint scheme.
I don't mind the hull points, it's nice to have a second chance for bad rolls, my wargames club has found there's one set of dice that always seems to get bad rolls >.<
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 10, 2012 12:09:04 GMT -5
Or keep the sponsons and try to roll 6s, and use them at full bs when the turret gets destroyed, or swap the battle cannons for non ordanace.
Your army isn't useless, you're just letting a few small changes spoil your fun.
That's fine, if you want to be that way...I guess.
Be a huge bummer.
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Post by treadiculous on Oct 10, 2012 13:14:16 GMT -5
I am more likely to field my Russ with HB sponsons in this rule set than 5th, but that's me. Blast markers at full strength regardless where the center of hole is and still being able to fire the sponsons is a major biggie for me...
ebay will provide you with alternate turrets if you really need to change your builds.
Guard are a good strong army with plenty of choice and build styles, a few minor tweaks to the rules shouldn't effect an army list all that much.
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Post by vegna on Oct 10, 2012 17:01:16 GMT -5
it basicly equates as 90 points being wasted on just two tanks. I'm already spent tons on my tanks as it is, don't want to have to buy more just to field them. makes my eradicator worth while thought which is good. but prefered to have all three filled.
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martin74
Conscript
where ever you go, there you are
Posts: 43
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Post by martin74 on Oct 10, 2012 19:39:42 GMT -5
I am not saying the basic LRBT is horrible, just, it really sucks that the lumbering behemoth rule is out. I do like the fact that all things touching the template now are full strength. I sometimes want to use my squad of three LRBT just to sit in the back field and shoot rounds down field. However, I know that a Bassilisk can do the same thing but cheaper, with a better round, plus barrage.
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Post by verminard on Oct 11, 2012 10:27:36 GMT -5
Strangely enough I have been playing this guy that runs HB sponsons on his russes with a hull laz cannon. I would think that it was terrible, I keep telling myself that. But, the pair of them repeatedly make up for it. Maybe he is just good at snap firing, or maybe the volume of guns helps him but those things always manage to do terrible damage to me. Plus, the reduced chance of a weapon destroyed result is pretty nice.
As for hull points, I dig them. I have a mech list and its much much much easier to plan what is going to happen to my tanks over the course of the game. Plus, with autocannons and missile launchers having a bit of a time actually getting to roll on the pen chart from our AV 12 front I find that they survive much longer than they used too.
Only exception is a army with only a few tanks since they suck down all the AT fire, but thats to be expected.
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Post by vegna on Oct 11, 2012 10:56:19 GMT -5
Oh one of the other things i do like is the changes to tank squadrons! if one gets crippled it can drop out  |
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Post by diezel on Nov 2, 2012 9:03:21 GMT -5
It might be a hit to the big guy, but I'm certainly not shelving them. The battle cannon itself got a big boost in usefulness, so it probably evens out (or better) still. They likelihood of good effect after scatter is increased massively, which is a buff that something like the exterminator doesn't get. Overall, I think the Executioner gets both the boost from heavy and the boost from blast rules, so it's become fun now! I think your right, the executioner is the best tank we have now. Can move and fire all weapons and its x3 blast template/markers chew thru cheap transports and MEQ Danger Rod Except the fact that vehicles now have to roll for "gets hot" which for 3 blasts your rolling 3 potential hull pt dmg off the flop... yes its 1 out of 6 chance, but my vets seem to fry themselves ATLEAST twice per game if not more ( rapid fire ) My Opinion: Rolling for Gets Hot on vehicles is Silly... The vehicle should have the extra space for cooling like the old BRB stated... |
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wulfric
Lieutenant
For the Emperor!
Posts: 135
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Post by wulfric on Nov 2, 2012 9:21:51 GMT -5
The main gun doesn't get hot - check the codex profile. Plasma sponsons do, though...
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Post by diezel on Nov 2, 2012 9:36:23 GMT -5
The main gun doesn't get hot - check the codex profile. Plasma sponsons do, though... At work atm so dont have codex...But if thats so, ive been playing it wrong  LOL! |
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Post by vegna on Nov 2, 2012 11:05:04 GMT -5
yeah the cannon doesnt get hot (does on sentinels tho) and yeah sponsons do. seems silly as id expect the metal would with stand the heat of it...
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Post by raymondjex on Nov 2, 2012 17:48:13 GMT -5
Lumbering behemoth gone lowers the overall distance we can move, but at least we can fire each and every weapon we got now. Snaps shots is a big of a downer, but with a stubber it's still 6 extra shots, with another 3 with a hull bolter, or a lascannon for some instant death deaths
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LOL!