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Post by theyshallnotpass on Nov 1, 2012 7:40:16 GMT -5
After losing all three games at a tournament on Tuesday (though I should point out that two were narrow defeats), I'm currently pondering what to add next. The three units mentioned in the thread title all have a certain appeal, but I want people's opinions on them.
Storm Troopers do have AP3 lasguns which would have come in very useful on Tuesday, Ogryns have the high toughness value and S5 guns but a poor leadership and unit size (only 5 in a Chimera), while Penal Legion squads are cheap but seemingly random. Anyway your ideas should make the decision a little easier.
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Post by The Hawk! on Nov 1, 2012 8:09:45 GMT -5
Well, the problem is all three units have a different purpose in a Guard army, so its kinda hard to say which is better to add next. Storm Troopers are a nice little tactical based unit, and are not particularly tough, so they are expensive and squishy :/ As you said, Hot Shot Lasguns are AP3, but arealso only S3, so you will still have a tough time wounding those pesky Marines. Ogryn's are Power houses and ca add quite the CCB punch, but asyou said low Leadership can be annoying, if you run them, I'd suggest attatching a Lord Commisar to them. Penal Legion.... I've never really seen them used, but I can see there uses. But asyou said, it depends how you roll for their bonus. It all depends on were your army is lacking really mate, if you need a unit that you can bring in with a couple of Melta's to pop some armour, I'd say Storm Troopers are the way to go, if you need a unit that ca go head to head with CC enemies, Ogryn's would be preferable. I know this hasn't really answered your quiery, but in order to do that, weneed to know more about were your army is struggling.
Dave
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Post by theyshallnotpass on Nov 1, 2012 12:46:44 GMT -5
Well, the problem is all three units have a different purpose in a Guard army, so its kinda hard to say which is better to add next. Storm Troopers are a nice little tactical based unit, and are not particularly tough, so they are expensive and squishy :/ As you said, Hot Shot Lasguns are AP3, but arealso only S3, so you will still have a tough time wounding those pesky Marines. Ogryn's are Power houses and ca add quite the CCB punch, but asyou said low Leadership can be annoying, if you run them, I'd suggest attatching a Lord Commisar to them. Penal Legion.... I've never really seen them used, but I can see there uses. But asyou said, it depends how you roll for their bonus. It all depends on were your army is lacking really mate, if you need a unit that you can bring in with a couple of Melta's to pop some armour, I'd say Storm Troopers are the way to go, if you need a unit that ca go head to head with CC enemies, Ogryn's would be preferable. I know this hasn't really answered your quiery, but in order to do that, weneed to know more about were your army is struggling. Dave Basically it came down to being poor in close combat and not having good enough AP values on most on my Manticore, Autocannons and Veterans with Shotguns or Lasguns.
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Post by vegna on Nov 1, 2012 13:21:45 GMT -5
we'd need your army list to say what to add.
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Post by optimat on Nov 1, 2012 13:22:45 GMT -5
With the right rolls a Penal Legion squad can tear up in CC, but if the result and rule is known by your opponent (which of course it will be) they will usually be smart enough to avoid/destroy as necessary. At least Ogryns can take a few shots before just about doing something.
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Post by theyshallnotpass on Nov 1, 2012 17:44:17 GMT -5
we'd need your army list to say what to add. Okay, I had the following: CCS, Master of Ordinance, Mortar team, grenade launcher. Vet squad, 3 meltas, chimera. Vet squad, 3 meltas, chimera. Vet squad, 3 plasmas, chimera. Platoon, PCS with autocannon, 2 infantry squads combined with autocannons and commissar. Leman Russ Demolisher. Manticore. 2 Hydras.
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tonba
Guardsman
Posts: 60
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Post by tonba on Nov 1, 2012 18:48:02 GMT -5
Of that list,
I would get rid of the platoon. Thanks should free up some points.
Replace the CCS weapons with something with decent AP (Plasma? And maybe a heavy Flamer for overwatch)
Add in a Defence line with quadgun (to help with flyers and skimmers) and let you CCS sit in to to hold your deployment zone. You can also put you manticore behind it.
All this will give your list some mobility and better AP.
The other thing I would look into is maybe demolitions upgrade to your vets.. I also think their weapons should be rearranged so that you have 1 plasma and 2 melta in each squad to give you some flexabilty.
If you have any spare points a Vendetta gunship would be a nice purchase.. only 130points for some really decent anti-flyer and anti-armour. Besides, it also adds that extra punch in clearing out some hard units that your squads havent quite finished off..
After using leman russ demolishers a fair bit, I find they are most effective in pairs with creed... ;-)
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Post by treadiculous on Nov 1, 2012 18:49:07 GMT -5
Stormtroopers give the most deployment options when you bring them to a table, have a good selction of wargear options and you will always be the one making the choices.
Penal legion are cheaper, more random and can't ever be relied upon to kill a tank. also, they need to get into combat somehow (at additional cost), outflank helps but isn't reliable.
Ogryns are for close combat so need an army which helps support assault based tactics, they cost a lot, need to get into combat somehow (at additional cost), but could kill a tank if it was daft enough to drive into them... and they can soak hits, but so can sentinel squads and infantry blobs.
I'd go with storm troopers...
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Post by vegna on Nov 1, 2012 21:58:07 GMT -5
I'd think drop the MoO and get the CCS upgraded with plasma, I wouldn't mix the vet squad special weapons. I'd rather add another vet squad or pace armour than any of the elites of penal legion units personally. but that's my taste. the Vendetta sounds a sound plan.
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Post by theyshallnotpass on Nov 2, 2012 3:29:18 GMT -5
Vendettas are out of the question sadly as the pieces of the only one I tried to build are sitting in a box and I'm not really in the mood to fork out another forty odd quid for one. I suppose I could try and buy a complete one but that's probably even more expensive.
As for the other ideas, the aegis line and quad gun are a good bet given how much my Hydras were targeted. I'm not sure whether I'll keep the CCS though, as a Lord Commissar with powerweapon and carapace has been recommended by a few people.
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Post by vegna on Nov 2, 2012 11:02:31 GMT -5
if their sitting in a box why don't you finish it? or have you lost too many parts? LC is still only one guy and cant give orders so it is a loss there, and don't you need someone to man the quad gun?
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Post by commisarblur on Nov 5, 2012 16:08:58 GMT -5
Storm troopers with a Valky or Ratlings. Don't bother with Ogryns.
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Post by badgersplatter on Nov 6, 2012 7:26:53 GMT -5
If CC is an issue you could look into expanding your blob to a more secure 40 man and giving it power weapons - that will soak up a lot of charges and let your firepower elsewhere do some work. What were you struggling to kill AP wise with all that melta and plasma?
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Nov 6, 2012 14:44:48 GMT -5
I think at the end of the day STs will give you more options. Allot guys don't like running them because vets may be cheaper...(waiting for it). But it comes down to how and when you deploy them for max destruction. Ogryns are nasty up close but are just not worth the points ( for me), after you buy them then you have to get a transport for them. Which can lead to other issues fro tactics. As for Penal the are just to random for my blood.
If you choose to use STs you just have to understand that are a one hit and quit unit.
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Post by brocchus on Mar 29, 2013 13:50:22 GMT -5
Storm Troopers, Ogryns or Penal Legions?
The correct answer is none of the above.
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Post by Soap on Mar 29, 2013 16:29:34 GMT -5
Moar tanks!!
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Post by Ponen19 on Mar 31, 2013 1:00:33 GMT -5
Of the three, I'm a Storm Trooper fan, it adds good versatility where you need it. But really I'd add ratlings or Marbo if you need something in your elites, but then again I'm a fan of staying as far away from CC as possible.
As for your list overall: drop the plasma across the board and try to fit in some Lascannon teams if you can. Guardsmen don't do very well against plasma "gets hot" saves. Just my experience anyway.
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