Ogryns?

[stinckpickle]

Ive always heard that they're bad but never understood why. I want to play with them and dont see anything wrong with them. They actually look pretty good. So what strategy is good for them, and what are there disadvantages? So that I can know what to look out for.

[vegna]

there use is as melee, problem is keeping them alive to get there. need to use a chimera, but can only then have 5. they don't count as a scoring unit (I think) and they end up being expensive for what they are, compared to an infantry blob which can give alot of fire, hold or contest objectives and soak up and dish out some close combat damage.

this isn't from experience I've not tried using them, I like them but just not worth the points when I can use other units that can do more.

[Wraelis]

If you do intend to use them I'd say stick em' in a chimera with a lord commissar with a power fist. It'll do okay, but they're just a really lackluster unit. Way too many points for what they do. But definitely fun to play with for a friendly game (which is all I ever play so they're entertaining to throw in there every so often)

[stinckpickle]

They cant assault out of the chimera though, right? Seems like they'd just get out shoot and then get obliterated by surrounding enemy units.(cause they obviously dont want 5 giants smacking them around)

I was thinking of using them to hold deployment zone objectives. I'd have a veterans squad on the objective and the ogryns to counter assault stuff trying to get to them. Would this work?

[Wraelis]

True, I haven't even played a game of 6th yet and I know they messed with the disembarkation rules a bunch. You could do what you have in mind, but honestly it'd probably be cheaper and more effective to go with a blob of infantry squads instead. Like I said though, if you're just doing friendly games with friends with fun lists that are just trying stuff out, go for it.

[stinckpickle]

Yeah fun is what I'm going for. I'm wanting them cause I think there really cool and they'll bring a much needed diversity to my army. (In my opinion they do) but I don't want something that's so useless that it'll take away from having fun.

[Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four]

Ogryns are fun. I find they either smash and obliterate things, or they die horribly to no effect. They can make an effective distraction, and absorb a good deal of fire, leaving your other units with greater freedom to act...

[Wraelis]

Then you, sir, could do with some Ogryns! I think Trooper summed it up perfectly though. They never just do okay. Either awesome, or terrible haha.

[WestRider]

I haven't used them myself, but I've had them used against me a few times, and I've watched a number of other games involving them.

Their number one problem is getting to the fight. They have no good delivery system available, which is kind of a problem for an Assault Unit. If facing an aggressive Opponent, they can hide and counter-charge, but otherwise, they're pretty much stuck just slogging across the Table. This isn't impossible to make work, but it takes some doing. Would probably work best in combination with at least one Assault Blob with Power Weapons and such advancing alongside them, and some Screening Units so you can take advantage of Furious Charge.

That aside, there are a few things they have some serious problems with:
- 2+ Saves: Even at S5-6, they don't have the number of Attacks necessary to cut through most 2+ Units before they get cut down themselves, especially if FNP is involved.
- AV12+ Units. They max at S6, and even that's only on the Charge. If a Dread manages to Charge them, they're stuck for the rest of the Game, and if it's got a DCCW, they're dead, because of their last big problem:
- S10 Attacks: Some of these have been fairly common for a while now: Manticores, Tyranid Warp Lances, DCCWs, Railguns, etc. Others, like the Vindicator, are seeing a resurgence for various reasons. Either way, it's bad news for Ogryns because those 3 Wounds are a big part of how they stay alive.

A Lord Commissar with Power Fist/Axe and Meltabombs can help out with the first two, but the third one can be really hard to deal with if your Opponent has S10 Units and knows how to use them. Especially since you usually have to bring your Ogryns out of hiding to get them into Assault.

[stinckpickle]

Thanks for the comments guys it's helping me get a grasp of what theyre like. (I've never seen someone use them or in a BatRep)

So it seems like they're a glass hammer. Kinda like tyranid warriors. I'm thinking I'll use the chimera to get'em were I want'em. Then get them out behind the chimera and charge next turn. I also might try to use a vet squad next to the chimera to bait them closer to the ogryns. I'll probably have to get really skilled in what victims I pick and how I go about it for this to work though.

[WestRider]

T5 means they're not as vulnerable to Instant Death as Tyranid Warriors, but the inability to get BoneSwords or even Rending means they can't dish it out anywhere near as well either.

The comparison is reasonably apt if you kind of squint and look at it funny, tho. Both certainly have to pick their targets carefully and need Screening in one form or another.

[christopher300]

I have just won 5 Ogryns on an ebay auction. I kind of just did it ona w him and forgot about it and ended up winning it.

I would fancy trying them some time. A question on screening though, is this where you just place another unit in front so that they get a cover save from being behind that unit?

[Julian Sharps]

As I've brought up elsewhere, Ogryns work really well with Creed. Take up to ten of them, give them Scout as per Creed's Tactical Genius special rule, and outflank with them.

Granted, it's not the best use of Tactical Genius, and Ogryns are still hideously underpowered for their cost, but it's something to consider if you're dead set on using them.

[yvain]

I have never used them. Everything I have read says, attach an LC and put 5 in a Chimera. I This still makes them very expensive and all they can do is tie up a single unit for while. So honestly I wouldn't bother, the points are better used getting more guns.

I am waiting for some paint to dry so I crunched some numbers on the combat calculator for fun. Against a mob of 35 Orc Boys with a Nob and PK, they will win combat at first. (LC with Power Maul and 5 Ogryns including over watch and assuming they assault). They will keep winning combat for 2 more round so they could force them to retreat, but since they can't sweep I don't see much use. Eventually, they will lose. You tie up one unit that is cheaper than yours and you don't destroy it. Same with shooty units, if you make it there you will win, but its not really worth the cost.

From this, I feel like the best way to use them would be to keep them in the back fields as a counter deep strike unit if you are running gunline. Against something like Sternguard the same unit should win combat in 2 or 3 turns Against 5 Terminators (assault with stormshields or regular) they should win in 1 or 2 (LC will need a PF).

If they force a retreat they face the full wraith of every unit in your gunline. In addition with smart placement the LC should be in range of your platoons.

Even though they are more expensive than all these units, you would have accomplished your mission of securing the your flank so your tanks, artillery, and lasguns can keep firing. So with a specific purpose in mind maybe there is a reason to take them.

[dougeye]

I love Ogryns, i think i have wa child with one actually :S lol

[WestRider]

Mar 3, 2013 12:42:33 GMT -5 yvain said:

I have never used them. Everything I have read says, attach an LC and put 5 in a Chimera. I This still makes them very expensive and all they can do is tie up a single unit for while. So honestly I wouldn't bother, the points are better used getting more guns.

In 6th, the Chimera is a really bad idea. You have to just stand around and get shot for an entire Turn after Disembarking, because it isn't an Assault Vehicle.

christopher300: In the case of an Assault Unit like Ogryns, what you're looking for with the Screening Unit is less the Cover Save, and more the ability to block faster Units that are going to try to Charge you first to deny you your extra Attacks and Furious Charge.

[leinadyor]

I've run a 10 man squad with a Lord Commisar w/ camo cloak, walked them up the board behind either vehicles or a basic squad of conscripts. Anything they get closed to gets hosed, it's about the same as a full squad of Shoota Boys except they hit much harder.

The real down side to them is their cost, many of the newer codecies have equivalent units with better rules for a cheaper cost, as an example Grotesques from the DE codex, they don't have the shooting of Ogryn but they have Power from Pain and come in at 5pts. less per model.

My only gripe is that they don't come with feel no pain, with as dumb as they are supposed be I can see them ignoring minor wounds while they are more focused on smashing something in front of them.

Lein

[WestRider]

The Camo Cloak trick doesn't work anymore, either. It got Errataed to just be +1 Cover Save for the Model wearing it rather than Stealth.

[Ogryn Crazy!]

The trick with Ogryns is...
"In for a penny, In for a pound!".

[orcidas]

dear sirs, been away from 40k for along time but new house, new gaming club, i have decided to concentrate on the footsloggers for this year, (aiming for a tourney in october) so far i'm 3 games in and I really find I struggle against the local meta, lots of nurgle marines deamons etc, last game i fielded 6 ogryns with an LC with PF as foot sloggers vs a space wolf army. They were easily my unit of the match, he didn't have any str 10 so they absorbed a lot of fire power allowing the rest of the army to do its thing, they also managed 2 solid assaults killed 16 grey wolfs total and ended up achieving line breaker for me, total they lost 1 ogryn...

will i use them again, hell yes...

will i report back again, maybe :-)

[Wraelis]

That sounds awesome! It's stuff like that that I love to hear. Makes me want to field em' the next time I play. I've always wanted to see what they could do to my friend's necrons...

[Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four]

May 27, 2013 7:44:30 GMT -5 orcidas said:

dear sirs, been away from 40k for along time but new house, new gaming club, i have decided to concentrate on the footsloggers for this year, (aiming for a tourney in october) so far i'm 3 games in and I really find I struggle against the local meta, lots of nurgle marines deamons etc, last game i fielded 6 ogryns with an LC with PF as foot sloggers vs a space wolf army. They were easily my unit of the match, he didn't have any str 10 so they absorbed a lot of fire power allowing the rest of the army to do its thing, they also managed 2 solid assaults killed 16 grey wolfs total and ended up achieving line breaker for me, total they lost 1 ogryn...

will i use them again, hell yes...

will i report back again, maybe :-)

This. This pleases me immensely... ;D

[sille]

Doesent the low initiative hamper ogryns quite alot?

[WestRider]

It's not a huge deal for them in most situations. Most of the Units that are capable of taking Ogryns down can do it regardless of whether they're striking first or second. Nids with all the Poisoned Gaunts are probably the big exception.

[sille]

Ogryns just does not fell worth it( both real price and point cost). I think no power weapons, crappy armor low initiative(but its ok if you charge).
My opinion they should be a bit cheaper and have more upgrade options, like power weapons and carapace armor maybe even power armor.