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Post by Trickstick on Dec 6, 2012 9:08:59 GMT -5
Posted this over on Dakka to canvas some wide opinion, but I couldn't neglect my favourite forum. At least here there is little risk of a 4 page "Forge World legality" argument. (-:
So, I have been reading the new ABG list from IA1 2nd ed. I don't know how many people have had a chance to look this over but I thought I would start some discussion on the subject.
I don't know if it is necessary to state this, but I intend this thread to ignore any "Forge World Legality" discussions, as they seem to crop up 90% of the time Forge World is discussed. Not trying to make a statement on either side of that discussion, just that it is beyond the scope of this thread.
Anyway, on with some draft ideas I have been having, a few random musings really to kick things off.
Firstly, I think it is almost mandatory to take some C:IG allies to provide the scoring units for this army. Not that scoring cannot be done with ABG fist squads, just that it frees up a lot of troop slots if you outsource the role. I am thinking of a cheap primaris psyker and a single mounted infantry platoon, providing the most resilient scoring units for the points. This has a basic cost of around 300 points, and could hang around behind the main tank line for support. Using veterans is possible but I feel that it uses up to many point, when the heavy tanks should be doing the main killing of the list. Veterans also need to expose themselves much more to put down their firepower.
I really like the look of a vanquisher command tank as the warlord for this army. Coax stubber and lascannon seem good choices, maybe with some melta sponsons for close support. Taking the optional ammunition, beast hunter rounds (small blast ID) seems like a good choice, although bumps the price up a bit. Vanquisher command tanks just seem right to me, very nice centrepiece and able to stay back from the front lines.
Elites seem ok but I am not that impressed. I would rather have deep striking stormtroopers than mounted ones and commissar tanks hold less appeal to me now they are elites.
The troop section seems to me like it is best filled up with russ hulls. AF squads are easier to do with allies, and AF vets seem over costed to me. Vets cost the same as in the codex, yet you only get five. I assume they forgot to lower the base price when they decided to let you buy up to five extra vets.
Fast attack seems similar to the codex, and although you can only get up to one gunship (vendetta/vulture), they can take the navy vehicle upgrades. A vendetta with flares could be good if you need an improved jink save against missiles, although the worst skyfire weaponry is usually a lascannon or an autocannon.
Heavy support seems to be where I would go for air defence, taking a hydra or some flakk missile HWSs. Also, HWSs can take voxes, which could be fun.
Over all I like the look of this list. Stick a load of cheap LRBT/Demolisher with just flamers in the troops, some air cover in the heavy, harassment in the the fast and then ally in some scoring units. Looking forward to giving them an outing.
I also think they would work very well as allies for an army that wants some extra armour, more so than C:IG would. You get a "cheap Pask" HQ, some tanks and a vendetta squadron. Good for forces that don't need the extra troops, or standard C:IG who just want that extra russ without using squadrons.
So, has anyone else been thinking about ABG? Seems like a nice update to me.
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Post by hendrik on Dec 7, 2012 13:56:36 GMT -5
i've tried it a couple games. fielding so many vehicles sure made my opponent pull weird faces for a minute. it still needs (a lot) of infantry support though to take care of deepstriking meltagun-wielding units of death etc. you can do this by fielding armoured fist squads though.
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Post by Trickstick on Dec 7, 2012 17:11:10 GMT -5
I'm currently running 3, and am thinking about converting a punisher vulture for more support.
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Post by hendrik on Dec 7, 2012 18:25:33 GMT -5
with 3 i take you are refering to armoured fist batallions? how do you get the idea you can only get 1 vendetta btw? as far as i can tell i'm allowed to take up to 3 squadrons of 3!
I think the main interest in running an armoured battalion (+optional allies) lies in running lists that are heavy on ordance weapons and hope to deliver an alpha strike that mercylessly cripples your opponents list.
by taking the slick loader ace crew skill on every tank having an ordance weapon one can effectively DOUBLE his shooting output in a single turn. even if you'll only stay still for one turn that's like suddently having two tanks instead of one!
personally i wouldn't take more then 1 flier in these list since that will mean i'm spending less points on tanks, not to mention my flyers (preferably vendettas) might come in too late.
Good catch on using armoured fists squads from an allied platoon instead of using the troop choices!
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Post by Trickstick on Dec 7, 2012 19:27:12 GMT -5
I see the confusion now. The new IA book has a new ABG list in it, which replaces the previous one. They removed the ace skills and changed a lot of stuff round, such as limiting gunships to a single squadron and adding warlord traits and special tank orders. |
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Post by hendrik on Dec 7, 2012 19:46:30 GMT -5
doh! completly forgot about the new IA!
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Post by Trickstick on Dec 7, 2012 20:17:02 GMT -5
doh! completly forgot about the new IA! It is pretty good. If you like armour and it isn't to pricey for you, it is worth picking up. If it is too much, make friends with someone who has it so you can have a peek. (-: I may have been reluctant to splash out on it if I had bought other FW books, but as it is my first one it seemed like a good choice. |
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Post by hendrik on Dec 8, 2012 5:50:24 GMT -5
given that i'm rather low on cash for my warhammer hobby i always decided just to wait and roam the interwebz for those delicious pdf-files =p it ain't pretty but the hobby (and especially forgeworld stuff) is already expensive enough  |
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Post by ferrers on Feb 27, 2013 18:36:34 GMT -5
Well iv played a couple of games now and thought if share my thoughts on the list.
Tonight's game was at 1750 vs dark angels Deathwing
And I ran the following
Vanq command tank with extra hull point Pintle stubber and beast shells
Troops I ran squad of two LRBT and squad of two exterminator russes.
I ran 3 x Bane wolf as fast attack
I also ran 3 x basilisk with bastion breacher shells
So yes iv got no scoring or denial troops !
Mission was crusade with 3 objectives and hammer and anvil deployment
He is running 36 terminators bleial with assualt cannons power fists and few chain saws thrown in as we'll as a ven dread in a pod.
So much like my last game vs drop pod space wolves I'm left with the problem that he is dropping in my face turn 1 and will be assaulting me turn two.... Not ideal.
I form a protective gun line protecting rear armour with LRBT on each end and the bane wolf and artillary in the middle
He has 1st turn I don't seize
He aggressively deep strikes everything right up to my tanks.
He drops the pod , belial's squad and two squad of terminators. The next three squads mishap but go into reserves.
His shooting only manages to take two hull points and main weapon destroyed from a basilisk and one hull point from a bane wolf.
My turn I move everything around apart from the basilisks
My shooting I pretty much put everything into the two troop squads of terminators.
Once the smoke clears there's 2 left in one squad and 1 in the other.
He manages to get another squad in from reserves with two remaining to come in.
His shooting is pretty ineffective but does take another hull point from the damaged banewolf.
He charges the banewolf and the damaged basilisk wrecking both but neither explode.
My turn two again move everything bar the basilisk my two troops of tanks move away from him starting towards the middle of board.
I turn my guns on the squad of two terminators and wipe them from the board. 1st blood to me
I fire the executioners fire on the squad that just landed in from of them I manage to hit with every template and 24 saves later that squad are vaporised.
His turn 3 and another squad comes in with last one in reserve
Much better turn for him he goes after my command tank with the belial's squad and chain fists me to death. Warlord to him.
He then multi charges both remaining basilisks explodes one is wrecked
He also blows up a banewolf with a rending shot... Boo
Ok so my turn 3 I'm down to the 4 leman russ and a bane wolf he has a drop pod ven dread, belial's squad, and about 11 other terminators.
The executioners proves to be gold again managing to wreck the dreadnought the LRBT manage to wipe belial's squad down to belial and one terminator.
The bane wolf kills one terminator from the full squad.
His turn 4 last squad comes in but scatters 7 inches backwards still on the board.
Shooting he only manages to blow up the banewolf.
I'm still moving backwards down the board and he's going to have to keep running now to catch me so far no one has been near any objectives. Iv got nothing scoring so just need to keep him away.
Another brutal round of shooting for me blows belial and his terminator away and putting the last full squad of terminators down to 2.
So he's got left wrecked dread, drop pod, 4 terminators from 3 separate squads. And iv got 4 tanks.
Turn 5 he starts making a move for objectives only one will be in range he moves a solo terminator and runs getting 5 inches that puts him just in range. Crap
Shooting does nothing he assaults a LRBT with chain fist blowing it up.
My turn Iv got to move the executioners as they can't see the guy on the objective so they shoot and kill the two terminators from the same squad.
The last LRBT moves towards the objective but fails to hit the marine.
Roll for game end and it continues.
His turn 6 he sits on the objective moves the other guy charges the LRBT but misses.
My turn 6 we fire everything on the marine on the objective 10 templates 1 las cannon 4 heavy bolters and a stubber....
Only one plasma template hits and wounds he rolls a 6 and the game ends.
He's has 3vp warlords, line breaker
Iv got first blood , warlord, and line breaker
So he wins. But a brutal and bloody game.
So having used the list
Good points
Executioners - love them and my MVP dropping 6 3" blasts a turn was brutal vs the terminators.
LRBT - weathered a lot of fire but poor scattering didn't threaten that much
Command tank. I totally forgot to use any orders and only got two rounds of firing so probably didn't kill its value
The bane wolfs killed a few terminators but struggled as they had terminators i there face from turn one and couldn't really speed bump for the russes effectively.
My biggest disappointment was the basilisk both games iv played they have almost seemed like a free vp I don't want to write them off till iv played vs a more static army.
So things I want to try:
Swap out the basilisk for griffins or medusas
Get some air support in a pair of vultures
Moar tanks! There addictive
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Post by hendrik on Mar 10, 2013 13:58:21 GMT -5
why did you squadron the leman russes together? having 4 individual tanks seem better to me then 2 times a squadron of 2?
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Post by Lt Osmann on Mar 22, 2013 13:19:49 GMT -5
I assume they forgot to lower the base price when they decided to let you buy up to five extra vets. I may be a bit late to the party, but I found this in amongst Forgeworld's downloads and thought it would shed some light. |
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 22, 2013 21:48:22 GMT -5
I may be a bit late to the party, but I found this in amongst Forgeworld's downloads and thought it would shed some light. Yeah, the FAQ fixed a fair few things. Thanks for the reminder, forgot about this thread a bit. www.forgeworld.co.uk/downloads/product/pdf/i/IA1_2ndEdFAQ_Errata.pdfI have been having a few games with my ABG recently. It is a lot of fun but I am probably going to scale back on tanks slightly and add an allied Chenkov platoon. I want to see if infantry can work with the heavy tanks, supporting each other. A platoon with a few demolishers and such could be fun. |
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Post by hendrik on Mar 23, 2013 12:23:36 GMT -5
why chenkov? general thought about him is that he's hardly worth it in a normal imperial guard army with the "considered overcosted" send in the next wave.
wouldn't including more troops be better?
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 24, 2013 15:28:01 GMT -5
Well, he is expensive but has some awesome uses. Conscripts with ld10 from a commissar tank could cover the tank advance quite well. When they die, they walk back on and claim an objective. The best thing about Chenkov is that he guarantees that you have a scoring unit at the end of the game, which can be a weakness for ABG.
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Post by hendrik on Mar 24, 2013 16:40:45 GMT -5
the main question is, do you want those tanks to advance, besides the demolisher i think i'd prefer not to advance with my tanks but take better firing positions instead.i usually leave the advancing to my chimera mounted troops.
In a list i wrote up today i allied in two platoons, 1 a gunline platoon, with 3 heavy weapons teams, the opther a mechanised force mounted in chimeras to grab/contest those mid field objectives
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Apr 18, 2013 0:56:48 GMT -5
Well, he is expensive but has some awesome uses. Conscripts with ld10 from a commissar tank could cover the tank advance quite well. When they die, they walk back on and claim an objective. The best thing about Chenkov is that he guarantees that you have a scoring unit at the end of the game, which can be a weakness for ABG. I must look into this. |
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