Shooting Executioner

[diezel]

When i am shooting the executioners 3 plasma blasts, can i place each shot over a different area of my target or does all 3 blasts have to be resolved on the same spot?

[WestRider]

The Blasts may be targeted on separate Models, as long as they're all in the same Unit. Or over separate points on a single larger Model.

[dangerrod]

Dec 10, 2012 16:30:57 GMT -5 WestRider said:

The Blasts may be targeted on separate Models, as long as they're all in the same Unit. Or over separate points on a single larger Model.

Although it really doesnt matter where you place it on a squad as they will have to remove any casualties from the front of the squad

Danger Rod

[WestRider]

An excellent point. I guess it really only does matter if you're moving them around on a single larger Model, to catch dudes from various different Squads around it or whatever.

[dougeye]

Dec 10, 2012 18:36:51 GMT -5 dangerrod said:

Dec 10, 2012 16:30:57 GMT -5 WestRider said:

The Blasts may be targeted on separate Models, as long as they're all in the same Unit. Or over separate points on a single larger Model.

Although it really doesnt matter where you place it on a squad as they will have to remove any casualties from the front of the squad

Danger Rod

no this is wrong i think, if a template weapon covers 4 models it is those 4 models that take the hit. I can see what you are saying because the plasma shot would not simply miss a model standing infront as its not ordinance, but if your just taking the front models then whats the point in using a template? I would take the models that are under the template and if your worried about realism the guys in front may have dived out the way and let their mates take the hit lol

If it was as you say then surly allmodels in the path of were the plasma shot lands would take hits.

To answer the original question im not 100% sure, i personally choose 1 position and scatter the 3 shots from that 1 position. The executioner cannon fires a burst of 3 plasma projectiles. Its not like a battle cannon which fires 1 shell, aims again, fires another shell etc.

[dangerrod]

Dec 13, 2012 10:10:01 GMT -5 dougeye said:

Dec 10, 2012 18:36:51 GMT -5 dangerrod said:

Although it really doesnt matter where you place it on a squad as they will have to remove any casualties from the front of the squad

Danger Rod

no this is wrong i think, if a template weapon covers 4 models it is those 4 models that take the hit. I can see what you are saying because the plasma shot would not simply miss a model standing infront as its not ordinance, but if your just taking the front models then whats the point in using a template? I would take the models that are under the template and if your worried about realism the guys in front may have dived out the way and let their mates take the hit lol

If it was as you say then surly allmodels in the path of were the plasma shot lands would take hits.

To answer the original question im not 100% sure, i personally choose 1 position and scatter the 3 shots from that 1 position. The executioner cannon fires a burst of 3 plasma projectiles. Its not like a battle cannon which fires 1 shell, aims again, fires another shell etc.

Nope, sorry, with 6th Ed, you take the wounded models CLOSEST to the firer even for Blast weapons. Also its a blast weapon which means the weapons would in theory explode/hit the closest model(s)

The idea of the template is to get as many models under it and then roll for scatter, it doesnt matter where it lands in the squad (or even if it hits the squad, it may scatter off completely!!) The total hit are the models under the template after scatter and the wounded are removed from the closest to the firer

If you/we could place and target indiviual squad memembers this would be blast sniping and would be open to too much abuse!!

However, Barrage weapons CAN do this as the explosion is coming from ABOVE and so models are removed from directly under the template, closest to the centre and moving outwards

Check out BRB page 33 for blast weapons and pg 34 for Barrage

Danger Rod

PS, if you really want to snipe certain enemy models use the sniper rifle, thats what its there for!

[dougeye]

it would only be sniping if there was no scatter. mabye it is the case but it is slightly silly, you might aswell place the balst marker and say yes well 4 guys have been hit and then roll 4 hit / wound rolls to see what happens on the front guys. What confuses me is why have a scatter if the scatter will does not effect the models hit by the marker.

SO if a squad is 50% in cover behind a wall and 50% not and the blast scatters and lands on the models behind the wall, would you still take wound rolls against models that are at the front and can be seen. or would you say it was null and void because the shot would have hit the wall before the models?

not having a go if it sounds like it, it just confuses me lol

edit - to be clearer about the first point why not have a system were you place the blast marker but the centre of the hole MUST be on a model at the front of the unit?

[vegna]

as that'd take away the point of having a full circle blast marker. the blasts to me were around before the rule to take the casualties from the front, so it's just caused by the duct tape rule additions the idea as the shooter is to try and get as many hits as possible. the scatter is to see the drift, wind effects etc of the shot to me insted of doing a dice roll as then your need to give a numbero f hits per shot and it causes problems then as it will go from being good at taking out blobs to being good at sniping characters

[dougeye]

but not everyone runs with their characters at the back of blobs, at least with guard you get the look out sir rule.

[dangerrod]

In theory you would still roll to wound the models as normal and then the wound allocation would be to remove any models who fail there armour saves closest to the firer. Each model/wound would have its armour/cover/invul save if possibe until it failed and was removed.

So for the above scenario, if the 50% behind cover were closer, then they would get a cover save from the blast if they were closer and there armour save was negated then they would be instantly killed/wounded

Also, if your talking about 50% of the squad being obscured, then only the remaininng 50% who are in view can be wounded/removed. As for placing the blast marker in this scenario, you would still place it over any part of the squad and roll for scatter from there. BUT you cann only take away as many models that aren't obscured.

This has happened to me a few times where i could see only one or two members of an enemy squad and have put three or four wounds on them and only killed two, the remaining wounds are then discarded!

Hope that helps

Danger Rod

[dougeye]

yeah sorry i already understood exactly what you say im just questoning the general principle lol

[rodross]

I love the executioner, even more so now I've realised it doesn't get hot...

[dougeye]

Dec 14, 2012 5:18:59 GMT -5 rodross said:

I love the executioner, even more so now I've realised it doesn't get hot...

i made the same mistake with gets hot one battle i lost all but 1 hull point to the gets hot rule and there was no need lol

[dangerrod]

Dec 14, 2012 2:28:48 GMT -5 dougeye said:

yeah sorry i already understood exactly what you say im just questoning the general principle lol

The general principle is to kill as many of the enemy, BEFORE they kill you.

I've learnt this through extensive research..... lol

Danger Rod

[Burt Hoovis]

Glad I stumbled on this discussion...
I'm pretty new to 40k but one of the first models I built was a LR with Executioner.
I just want to make sure I have this down right.

I am shooting at a unit of 10 infantry.
I put my template in the center, fire and dice roll and it goes askew a few inches.
The new template location covers 3 models in the back of the unit.
My opponent removes three models from the front of his unit.

Is that correct?

Another question.
This is points heavy and may be too much to be worth it, but if I take a LR Executioner, with front Lascannon and side multi-melta sponsons. I can always shoot all weapons at full BS? That's a lot of punishment on even a power armored infantry squad or medium armor if you are close enough.
If I didn't get this right please correct me, I was trying to find the answer to this in other threads, but I only got partial each time.

[WestRider]

First question: It's a little more complicated than that, because you've got to factor in Cover, etc., but in general, yeah, Wounds from Blast (not Barrage) Weapons just get added to the Wound Pool and taken off the front like any other Wounds.

Second question: Yep. The Amendment changing Lumbering Behemoth to Heavy means that any Russ Variant that doesn't have an Ordnance Turret can fire everything at full effect, even when moving.

[egon]

One might add though that an Executioner with sponson MM and hull LC isn't really points-effective. As you say, you have to get close and that means it will be easier for your enemy o hit you. The Executioner is not really made for dealing with armour, it's supposed to kill tough infantry with good armour saves. Termies, mega nobs, etc.

[WestRider]

Good point. It's also a really badly mixed load-out, with a Turret designed to go for Heavy Infantry, and secondarily Light Armour, and Hull/Sponson Weaponry that want's to get pointed at Medium-Heavy Armour.

[Burt Hoovis]

Other questions about tanks:

Extra Armor, is it worth it?

If I want a squadron of 3 tanks to be tough infantry troop killers, here is what I was thinking.
I already have built a Executioner LR with multi-meltas and Heavy Flamer. (first tank I built before I knew what I was doing)
Then two tanks with Vanquisher Auto cannons.
I was thinking either HF in front or Lascannon and having MM on the sides.
I know the range is lower than the Heavy Bolters but if they run out of low armor targets or find themselves close to some heavy armor I could still engage them and be effective.
I really just need to play more so I can do some learning for myself but until I can get that done, your advice shall be my guiding light!

Am I totally wrong in thinking this or is this a valid option?

[WestRider]

Extra Armour is way too expensive with the way Vehicle Damage works in 6th Ed.

Do you mean Vanquisher Anti-Tank Cannon, or Exterminator Autocannon? I'm guessing the Exterminator, since you're talking Anti-Infantry.

Regardless, you really don't want to be mixing Roles too much, on either the Squadron or the individual Tank levels. You end up shelling out a lot of Points, some of which are guaranteed to be wasted every Turn.

The Exterminator is kind of an exception, but it still doesn't want to be shooting at the Heavy Vehicles that are the Multi-Melta's prime target. Either a Heavy Bolter or Lascannon* in the Hull is OK, but stick with Heavy Bolter Sponsons for Exterminators. Point-for-Point, they work out just as well against Marines as the Multi-Meltas do, and they're better against the lighter Units that are the Exterminator's prime targets.

The Heavy Stubber is a good option for the Exterminator as well, a nice little extra bit of firepower against Infantry.

*If you do take a Hull Lascannon, this becomes one of the Units that I really like a Hunter-Killer Missile on.

[Burt Hoovis]

Yeah, I definitely meant the Exterminator.

Thank you for the advice, very helpful indeed!

[egon]

In my experience, IG tanks are themselves not very good at tank killing. The main problem is that the anti-tank weapons they can use is either very unrealiable (lascannons and vanquisher cannons only hit half the time and at one shot per turn that sucks) or have too short of a range (sponson MM).

I rely on my veterans or storm troopers with multimeltas or Vendettas to take out heavy armour. Transports are a job for autocannons which the guard has plenty of. So the only really viable anti-tank killing you can do is Exterminators with triple HBs targeting transports.

[commissarrob]

Dec 13, 2012 17:59:50 GMT -5 dangerrod said:

Also, if your talking about 50% of the squad being obscured, then only the remaininng 50% who are in view can be wounded/removed. As for placing the blast marker in this scenario, you would still place it over any part of the squad and roll for scatter from there. BUT you cann only take away as many models that aren't obscured.

A blast marker can wound models outside of line of sight as long as the model targeted (under the blast template's hole) is within line of site. They faq'd it in the basic rulebook faq.

[WestRider]

Feb 17, 2013 21:47:33 GMT -5 commissarrob said:

Dec 13, 2012 17:59:50 GMT -5 dangerrod said:

Also, if your talking about 50% of the squad being obscured, then only the remaininng 50% who are in view can be wounded/removed. As for placing the blast marker in this scenario, you would still place it over any part of the squad and roll for scatter from there. BUT you cann only take away as many models that aren't obscured.

A blast marker can wound models outside of line of sight as long as the model targeted (under the blast template's hole) is within line of site. They faq'd it in the basic rulebook faq.

It's a bit more complicated than that, actually. A Blast can generate Hits from Models outside of LoS, but the Wounds can still only be Allocated to Models that you have LoS to.

So if 3 dudes from a Tac Squad are out in the open, and 7 are hiding in a clump behind a Land Raider, and you manage to tag the 7 with a Battle Cannon shot, doing (say) 6 Wounds, you can still only actually kill the 3 visible Models.

[commisarblur]

Feb 15, 2013 11:00:12 GMT -5 Burt Hoovis said:

Other questions about tanks:

Extra Armor, is it worth it?

If I want a squadron of 3 tanks to be tough infantry troop killers, here is what I was thinking.
I already have built a Executioner LR with multi-meltas and Heavy Flamer. (first tank I built before I knew what I was doing)
Then two tanks with Vanquisher Auto cannons.
I was thinking either HF in front or Lascannon and having MM on the sides.
I know the range is lower than the Heavy Bolters but if they run out of low armor targets or find themselves close to some heavy armor I could still engage them and be effective.
I really just need to play more so I can do some learning for myself but until I can get that done, your advice shall be my guiding light!

Am I totally wrong in thinking this or is this a valid option?

If you want to be a heavy troop killer then go with Punisher and the 20 shot cannon with bolter sponsons and Pask for bs4. People diss this thing because it can't tank hunt but they are fools to not consider the possiablity of mowing down terminators with over 20 bs 4 shots. The ratio is that the opponent is gonna roll a a few ones each time for Armor saves.