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Post by WestRider on Jan 2, 2013 23:34:03 GMT -5
As with many things in Abnett's books, it pretty much just serves to show that's a big galaxy, and there's room for just about every possible variation. Not that it's any kind of standard or anything.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 3, 2013 11:03:42 GMT -5
Oops, actually I messed up, it was VPHC (Vervun Primary Hive Commissariat) in "Necropolis." Also, I re-read the Cain book I mentioned last night detailing the Ork invasion of Perlia and how Cain turned the tide, and it was actually the Inquisitor (Amberly Vail) who stated (in one of her footnotes) that PDF forces are, indeed, overseen by the Commissariat, but that there's typically only one Commissar assigned to such duties for an entire sub-sector, usually it is a punishment duty, and that the PDF troopers under the Commissar's oversight usually have no idea of the Commissar's existence. Interestingly/sadly, I couldn't find the reference of the heavy-drinking, constantly-traveling Commissar that I thought was associated with the information, so I may have conflated that from another source (most likely another Cain novel), however I started in on the second Cain book set on Perlia (the 13th Black Crusade one with the psychic Hitler-inspired Chaos Warlord who was after the Shadowlight artefact), and it mentioned the same detail about the Commissariat overseeing the PDF in it as well. I'm going to keep looking and see if I can find the heavy-drinking, constantly-traveling Commissar reference, though, because I recall finding it hilarious.
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Jan 3, 2013 15:42:00 GMT -5
The travelling drinking commissar reference was definately in one of the books about Perlia. Unfortunately I don't have the books to hand to look for it.
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Post by vegna on Jan 3, 2013 18:41:00 GMT -5
I'd expect some PDFs to have commissar like characters, they have less support then the imperial guard and may need to hold their ground to await reinforcements if the worlds attacked, so a local enforcement unit would make sense. the size I'd also expect would vary with the home world their from. better equipped and trained forces would need less men to be as effective as those that aren't well equipped or trained. And yes thanks for this source, it's good to have access to some FAQs we have on the boards
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 3, 2013 18:47:01 GMT -5
the size I'd also expect would vary with the home world their from. better equipped and trained forces would need less men to be as effective as those that aren't well equipped or trained. Well, the one catch there is that worlds industrialized enough to produce better equipped and trained forces will also have the population to produce larger units. Since the Administratum (theoretically) sets the tithe based on what the world can handle, a percentage based tithe would see a larger number of the populace conscripted. Also, a larger unit can suffer attrition for longer periods without becoming combat ineffective, and can cover wider areas of a front, so it would be in the best interest of both the homeworld and the munitorium to encourage larger units, as long as quality doesn't suffer in the process. Generally speaking, more specialized units will have smaller sizes, due to the confines of their roles. Armoured and artillery regiments will have less men simply because they need less to man their batteries or tank companies. Drop troops are hampered by the available air lift capacity, which means a larger unit will be harder to deploy in one air drop, and supply from the air later on if needed. They also lack the heavier equipment most units have access to, so they won't have need for salamander crews, light artillery, and the like. Siege regiments are a bit of an exception, since they will be expected to take heavy losses, and therefore will be larger in size simple to absorb those casualties. Reds
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Post by Kaikelx on Jan 3, 2013 20:03:48 GMT -5
Whoa, this is awesome. Could you add some stuff on how psykers/priests/commissars are attached to Imperial Guard regiments? And do regiments tend to have their own logistical unit (Like the regiment Cain spends most of his time with), or do they mostly rely on adepts from the munitorium?
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Post by Adkenpachi on Jan 3, 2013 20:27:43 GMT -5
So i always thought the IG were meant to be like... Noble soldiers in the fight to save humanity, like our armed forces if there was an opposition to our countries.... From what im hearing its more like the hitler youth where your forced to fight if you like it or not even though its not ABSOLUTLY necessary (hence why i didnt use ww1 allies as a reference).
Im pretty freakin tired after a big clearout (found 5th ed and flicked through it for a break hehe, the timeline section is great) so i might not be articulating myself correctly.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jan 3, 2013 20:38:12 GMT -5
Not all planets have conscription, some are all volunteer, like the Elysians. Building off your WWII reference, the Imperial Guard has room for every single major unit featured in WWII (Indeed, much of the IG lore is based off of that if I'm not mistaken). So while there are regiments that consist of conscripts, there are also regiments such as the Elysians which pride themselves on being all-volunteer.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 3, 2013 22:02:40 GMT -5
Adkenpachi: Like Kai said, there's a wide spread of unit types and recruitment. Even with conscription, I use the term to mean the soldiers simply aren't volunteers. That still leaves a lot of room for how they join the guard. For example, they could be taken from their homes and press-ganged into service, they could be drawn by lot (either from the PDF, like Cadians, or the populace in general), or they could expected to serve since birth, like with first born children on Vostroya. Remember, the UK and US also used conscription during WWII, so there's still a few degrees between conscription and Hitler Youth. @kai: I'll have to do a bit of reading, then I'll add that to the second of my info posts. Reds
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Post by vegna on Jan 3, 2013 22:51:55 GMT -5
Reds the question I'd have do they call for more men or more formations. as we seem to like ww2 now, Germany had formation of elite forces and advanced tanks, Soviet forces were a bit more disorganised and tended to field bigger formations till 1942/43. I'd expect hive worlds to be the best for numbers. Agri worlds would be good for healthy population, industrial would be more workmen...but i guess it depends on the world and all. Also i picture my worlds Tithe being made up of criminals, given a pardon for "volunteering". Adkenpachi conscription is based on all the freedom countries. US civil war famous for it, immigrants got drafted straight off the boats!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 3, 2013 23:18:14 GMT -5
vegna: I'd imagine both, if they could manage it, although it varies from world to world. The fluff does mention that hive worlds tend to produce larger regiments and that they are usually better equipped, due to their manufacturing base, but the quality of those troops will generally vary. I'd imagine that better trained units are the smaller, more lightly equipped ones, if for no other reason than they have to make each man count for more. It mentions in a couple places that the governors of imperial worlds can be held accountable if Guard units from their planet perform poorly, so it would also be in the best interest of the planetary leadership to make sure smaller units are trained up as much as possible. Reds
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Post by macknight on Jan 4, 2013 1:23:20 GMT -5
From all the guard novels I've read, commissars are their own faction, they can choose to leave their attached regiment(they just send a request through the munitorium).
sanctioned psykers are usually the black sheep among regiments, the only exception is cadia, they have their own sanction psykers, and their fellow cadians are quite friendly toward them.
when a regiment is combat ineffective, it usually is combined with another regiment to make it effective as resupplying of man in a hot zone is scarce. most regiments also indoctrinate local populace(PDF) into it own when taking casulty.
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Post by Adkenpachi on Jan 4, 2013 5:14:02 GMT -5
Sorry like i said, didnt get my point across completely accurate. I was more refering to being press ganged or taken from.ones home/shot for not joining up rather than just being told to join, the 'good guys' always let off people for being disabled or for various other reasons.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 7, 2013 18:39:06 GMT -5
I finished re-reading the Second Siege of Perlia Ciaphas Cain novel last night, and the drunken, traveling Commissar wasn't mentioned in it either. I'm now re-reading the second book in the Perlia-Shadowlight story arc (the one set on Periremunda where the Shadowlight's existence is first brought to light) to see if it's mentioned in that one... Heaven forbid that I have to re-read all of the Cain novels to find it.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 7, 2013 18:44:43 GMT -5
I finished re-reading the Second Siege of Perlia Ciaphas Cain novel last night, and the drunken, traveling Commissar wasn't mentioned in it either. I'm now re-reading the second book in the Perlia-Shadowlight story arc (the one set on Periremunda where the Shadowlight's existence is first brought to light) to see if it's mentioned in that one... Heaven forbid that I have to re-read all of the Cain novels to find it. I thought it was in the one where they fight Tyranids on that world made of plateaus, where all the people dress funny. That said, I remember the reference, and the book itself doesn't really matter. While there is some precedent for Commissars overseeing the PDF, it's not the same level of oversight provided to Guard regiments, and seems to be more of an administrative position, responsible for making sure the whole PDF of a planet, or several planets, knows which boot goes on which foot. Reds
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 7, 2013 19:24:41 GMT -5
I finished re-reading the Second Siege of Perlia Ciaphas Cain novel last night, and the drunken, traveling Commissar wasn't mentioned in it either. I'm now re-reading the second book in the Perlia-Shadowlight story arc (the one set on Periremunda where the Shadowlight's existence is first brought to light) to see if it's mentioned in that one... Heaven forbid that I have to re-read all of the Cain novels to find it. I thought it was in the one where they fight Tyranids on that world made of plateaus, where all the people dress funny. That said, I remember the reference, and the book itself doesn't really matter. While there is some precedent for Commissars overseeing the PDF, it's not the same level of oversight provided to Guard regiments, and seems to be more of an administrative position, responsible for making sure the whole PDF of a planet, or several planets, knows which boot goes on which foot. Reds Yes, that is the book I am re-reading now. And yes, that was the point I've been trying to make. Theoretically the Commissariat is responsible for providing oversight to PDFs, but in reality their efforts to do so are pretty much universally unnoticed, and not effective at all.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 7, 2013 21:39:29 GMT -5
Just boiling the last half a page down to one result, Trooper. Reds
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 9, 2013 13:32:51 GMT -5
Ah, I finally found the specific quote about the traveling, drunken Commissar last night. Indeed, it is in the book about the events Cain was involved in on Periremunda, when the Shadowlight was first introduced, towards the end of the novel--just before Cain and Amberley set off to visit the plateau community that was controlled by the Sisters of the Order of the White Rose. Amberley, in the footnote, mentions that in this case the Commissar, Banning, who was responsible for providing oversight to the PDF was responsible for providing oversight for the entire sector. However, Amberley also seems to imply that ideally there should be a single Commissar who provides oversight for a single planet's PDF.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 23, 2013 12:15:41 GMT -5
Updated with rank structure and regimental advisers. If anyone has any other suggestions for what else I should include, let me know!
Reds
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Feb 22, 2013 9:35:53 GMT -5
OK, I've got a question for you! Just to give a bit of background; part of the Fluff for my Guard unit and their homeworld is that the planet itself is rich in resources, but poor in industry, and therefore they lack the industrial capacity to natively construct any fighting vehicle that's bigger than an armoured half - track. Now I understand that when there is a founding and a new Guard regiment is raised, the Munitorum will switch out native vehicles, and so any companies with half tracks will get Chimeras, and some the rather archaic native artillery will be replaced with standardised heavy mortars, as well as some new toys for the troopers and so on. My question is, where would the Planetary Govenor go to procure the equipment needed to make the PDF a force that could actually do some damage to the Emperor's enemies, namely enough armour for at least a brigade, as well as a credible 'air force' of sorts and a small system defence fleet, (considering that my homeworld is very close to the 'Front line' of various Ork held worlds, as well as being close to the Tau, this is rather necessary).Does the Munitorum/administratum also supply the PDF to a certain extent, or is it more likely that the Govenor will have some kind of arms deal with the Forge World in the neighbouring system, exchanging the raw materials that aren't tithed away or used at home for the tools with which to maintain a defence force capable of actually doing something?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 22, 2013 11:04:45 GMT -5
Unless he had political sway with the Munitorium, he'd most likely have to strike trade deals with a forge world or some other heavily industrialized planet in order to get what he needs. He could also go to private commercial interests or trading houses who would act as middle men, or, if you wanted to add an interesting (if perhaps troublesome) dynamic to the PDF, he could hire mercenaries to make up the heavy hitting part of the PDF, or at least as a stand in while he scrapes together enough trained crews and support specialists for armour and airpower.
Reds
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Feb 22, 2013 11:09:30 GMT -5
Thanks Reds, the mercenary idea is certainly interesting, although perhaps as something that was done in the past and is now more of a tradition.
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Post by mugshot on Dec 1, 2013 19:07:57 GMT -5
I have a more forum oriented question? Can I post my own artworks in the fluff forum as a method of showing my regiment? Or do images belong solely in the picture post forum?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Dec 1, 2013 23:21:33 GMT -5
If it's included with some written fluff, that's more than fine. However, if it's just showing off artwork or paint schemes, the picture post section is probably the place to do it.
Also, if you have forum related questions in the future, feel free to PM myself or Rolling Thunder. They can sometimes get overlooked if you post them in threads.
Reds
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Post by mugshot on Dec 2, 2013 0:23:56 GMT -5
Thank you Reds.
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