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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 15, 2013 14:49:15 GMT -5
So my army recently rebelled from the Imperium and are enjoying their independence. Heresy woohoo! I want to start my own fluff about this planet but my knowledge of 40k fluff is quite limited. I'm interested in the locales of planets and the stories behind them. Basically, all I know is where Catachan and the Cadian Gate is located.
I'm looking online and I'm reaching out to you guys to help develop this world. I need it far enough away from any main star systems that retribution from the Imperium would be a long ways off.
Any good books or sites you guys can recommend?
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Post by Paradill on Mar 15, 2013 15:01:13 GMT -5
So the Imperium is made up of approximately a million worlds IIRC and they come in all shapes and sizes. It's entirely up to you where you want your world and what sort of world it is.
The imperium is an empire of islands, each world feeding the machine but they could be so remote and isolated that their tithes could not be collected for centuries, or they could be right next to a SM chapter home world/ imperial fleet base/ adeptus mechanicus Forge World and have their tithes heavily enforced.
The galaxy is your oyster! So join Chaos, worship the True Gods and despoil the realms of the false emperor!
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Post by cheminhaler on Mar 15, 2013 15:25:39 GMT -5
Types of worlds usually get categorised by the Adeptus Munitorum into broad categories, like 'hive worlds', 'oceanic worlds', 'death worlds', 'agri worlds', 'memorial worlds', 'forge worlds', etc. They are tithed according to their type of either/ both of resources and population tithe. Any planet that doesn't pay its tithe .... is up nuts creek to say the least.
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 15, 2013 15:46:30 GMT -5
The galaxy is your oyster! So join Chaos, worship the True Gods and despoil the realms of the false emperor! Funny you mention that. I run a daemon fantasy army and I really want to swing it to ally with them in fluff games. Tainted IG awright! Types of worlds usually get categorised by the Adeptus Munitorum into broad categories, like 'hive worlds', 'oceanic worlds', 'death worlds', 'agri worlds', 'memorial worlds', 'forge worlds', etc. They are tithed according to their type of either/ both of resources and population tithe. Any planet that doesn't pay its tithe .... is up nuts creek to say the least. I suppose I want something similar to Earth so I can have forces from all climates defending it. Thanks for the info. Apparently, I can choose a location and go for it. Note: I know the 40k novels are full of space marine stories. What novels out there feature Imperial Guard forces?
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Post by macknight on Mar 15, 2013 16:09:23 GMT -5
The galaxy is your oyster! So join Chaos, worship the True Gods and despoil the realms of the false emperor! Funny you mention that. I run a daemon fantasy army and I really want to swing it to ally with them in fluff games. Tainted IG awright! Types of worlds usually get categorised by the Adeptus Munitorum into broad categories, like 'hive worlds', 'oceanic worlds', 'death worlds', 'agri worlds', 'memorial worlds', 'forge worlds', etc. They are tithed according to their type of either/ both of resources and population tithe. Any planet that doesn't pay its tithe .... is up nuts creek to say the least. I suppose I want something similar to Earth so I can have forces from all climates defending it. Thanks for the info. Apparently, I can choose a location and go for it. Note: I know the 40k novels are full of space marine stories. What novels out there feature Imperial Guard forces?There is easily 30+ novels about IG, the tanith series, cain series, inquisitor series, penal legion series, arbite series, stand alone novels and short stories.. Which regiment/s are you looking after? So I can point you to their direction.
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 15, 2013 16:44:28 GMT -5
There is easily 30+ novels about IG, the tanith series, cain series, inquisitor series, penal legion series, arbite series, stand alone novels and short stories.. Which regiment/s are you looking after? So I can point you to their direction. Honestly, anything to get me started. I run a Catachan army but i don't know if there are any novels about them. I'm open to anything.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Mar 15, 2013 17:17:04 GMT -5
INCOMING TEXT WALL, TAKE COVER!
For IG novels, anything by Dan Abnett for action, or Sandy Mitchell for humor. They both tend to bend the fluff here and there, but not so much that they break it. Incidentially, "Eisenhorn" and "Ravenor" by Abnett are fantastic looks at how varied each world within the Imperium can be, and are two really, really excellent books in general, though they focus more on the Inquisition.
Now, to the meat of the matter! First, a bit about rebelling from the Imperium.
Any Imperial world that declares itself independent from the Imperium is asking to be turned into a hellish landscape of bomb craters and mass graves. As a general rule, the Imperium rarely asks "Is it worth trying to retake this place". Instead, they usually just assume it is because A) the world belongs to the God Emperor, and letting rebels hold it is an affront to Him, and B) if you let it slide once, then you're just encouraging other worlds to rebel. Now, the questions here are "Did the Imperium actually notice?" and "When will they get around to sending retribution?". Let's take a look at each of those.
If your homeworld isn't some sort of vital industrial, agricultural, religious, or strategic world, then their odds of getting away with rebellion improve dramatically. Likewise, if a world is on some sort of galactic frontier, such in the border region between two sectors, near some sort of stellar anomaly or xeno presence that discourages space travel, or on the very edge of the Imperium itself, then it's chances of falling through the cracks are much higher. As Paradill said, there are a million worlds out there for the vast bureaucracy of the Administratum to keep track of, and it's quite possible for them to simply "misplace" a world if it's not that important. If your people didn't make a big hooplah about rebelling, and just quietly stopped sending in their tithe to the Imperium, it might be decades or even centuries before anyone notices, if they do at all. As long as the various local outposts of organs of the larger Imperium (such as the Arbites, Administratium, and the Ecclesiarchy) were brought on board with the plan, eliminated, or kept in the dark, your odds of getting away with such a thing are actually not bad.
Retribution, if it does come, may be very, very slow in coming. It could take decades or longer for a Guard task force to be dispatched to your world if it's not a critical planet, and there's no promises the punitive expedition would even get there. They could be lost or dramatically delayed during warp transit to your world, diverted to some other warzone, or even become embroiled in another rebellion while their transports resupply somewhere. There's no guarantee that the Imperium would be keeping track of the progress of the strike force, so it could be a very long time before someone goes "Hey, did we ever retake that world?". Keep in mind though, if the Imperium does keep tabs on the punitive force, then retribution will inevitably come, and it will probably be a losing proposition for local forces. The Imperium very, very rarely just packs up and goes home if they lose the first time, and can pour endless amounts of men and material into a conflict, far outmatching whatever the locals can throw together.
Some other stuff to consider; Did your world embrace Chaos or Xeno rule, or are they just doing their own thing, independent of the Imperium? Do they still regard the Emperor as, well, the God Emperor of Mankind, even if they reject the rule of the Imperium? Did they reject the Mechanicus at the same time, or are techpriests still going around, maintaining whatever technology the planet has? Does the planet have an ally, such as a Rogue Trader or merchant interest (who they probably conspired with for independence) that can provide them with ships that are capable of warp travel, or are they stuck with a local system fleet?
Now, a bit more about individual planets. Remember, there are an astronomical number of planets in the galaxy, so even if the type of planet you have is one in a million, there could be hundreds of thousands of them out there. Try to resist the temptation of a planet with a single type of environment on it (all jungle, all ocean, etc), and add some variety to the planet's geography and ecology. Have fun looking up potential environmental anomalies in the solar system (or even ones here on earth) and use them to add some flavor. Remember, if it obeys the laws of physics, there's probably at least one planet out there that has it. Here's the full breakdown of world classifications, though, so you can pick a generic theme for your planet.
Civilized- This is the term for a generic, earth like planet. They're probably self sufficient, and have a fairly high tech level. Earth would be considered a civilized world. This is probably the best option for a rebellious planet if you want to have a little bit of everything in terms of environment and industry.
Hive- Hive worlds are studded with massive, well, hive-like cities that continuously build upon themselves, expanding outward and upward (or downward, if you want to throw a twist on things). These are usually heavily industrialized worlds, and more often than not, have polluted their environment to turn their world into a wasteland of sorts, complete with tainted oceans and mass extinction of wildlife. These worlds tend to be valued for their huge populations as well as industrial muscle, so one of these declaring independence would probably go noticed.
Pleasure- These are paradise worlds more or less given over to the rest and relaxation of wealthy Imperial servants an citizens. They're few and far between, and since they tend to be frequented by high ranking Imperial officials, rebellion would probably go noticed here, too.
Fortress- Think Cadia. These planets have been wholly converted into bastions of military might, usually as bulwarks against some alien or heretical threat, but can also be major logistics hubs for the Guard or Navy. While the high number of Guard regiments stationed on these types of worlds makes rebellion unlikely in the extreme, there's no reason why the populace of your planet can't try to convert their planet into a fortress world, preparing for inevitable Imperial retribution (which may or may not actually be inevitable)
Shrine- These are worlds that have a strong religious significance in the Imperium, and are usually controlled by the Ecclesiarchy (Space Popes!) rather than the Administratium. Again, most tend to be of significant value to the Imperium, but a minor one, under the sway of a Cardinal who would rather do things his own way, could probably rebel and get away with it, at least for a while.
Agri- These are breadbasket worlds that feed Hive worlds and other planets that can no longer really sustain their populations with their own resources. They tend to be sparsely populated and agricultural in nature, but they could also be covered with oceans full of delicious sea life or nutritious (if unappetizing) kelp, or ice worlds where fresh water could be harvested in chunks from huge glaciers. Some of these worlds are vital to the survival of a sub sector or system, providing most of it's neighbors with the food they need to survive, while others could be on the fringes of the Imperium, and are largely ignored. The latter are your best bet for rebellion without retribution.
Mining- See above, but they dig valuable stuff out of the ground, rather than plant it. They usually feed Forge worlds and industrial Hive worlds with minerals, but are largely the same as Agri-worlds when it comes to how likely they are to succeed in a rebellion.
Penal- Prison worlds effectively, where the scum and villainy of the Imperium are sent off to do hard labor. These are usually fantastically unpleasant places to live, and a rebellion or revolt here would attract a LOT of attention from the Imperium (again, unless the place was in the arse end of nowhere, sort of a solitary confinement planet), since they like to keep tabs on their criminal scum.
Frontier- These are sparsely populated worlds where Imperial colonies are just springing up. Probably your best bet for being able to get away with rebellion, but unless the rebellion itself was a long time ago and the world has developed since then, it's most likely not going to have a lot of infrastructure and industry set up.
Forge- Run by the Mechanicus, these worlds produce huge quantities of munitions and material for the Imperium, and contain valuable and rare designs for all sorts of things. I strongly recommend not using this type of world, it would be too much of a headache if you're trying to go unnoticed.
Death- Sort of like frontier worlds, but with the caveat that they're sparsely populated due to the fact the whole planet wants it's populace dead, either by being like Catachan, a frozen hellscape, or a boiling volcanic world. Since you play Catachans, this might be your best bet, especially since this is one of the rare cases where the Imperium might just decide it's easier to pretend your world never existed than to try and retake it.
Feudal and Feral- These worlds have primitive human cultures, separated usually by their mastery of black powder weapons, and whether proper cities have been established or not. Again, another strong candidate for a world that could rebel without notice, but the general tech level is low. Might be useful to have your fantasy army from here, and your IG army from another, nearby world that the feudal world either joined in, or simply has no idea about, as they may not really understand that the other world rebelled.
Reds
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 15, 2013 17:56:56 GMT -5
DIVES FOR COVER!!! WALL OF TEXT TURNS SQUAD INTO RED MIST!!!
That is fantastic Reds! Thank you so much for the breakdown. It would probably take me a couple months of reading and study to summarize all of that information.
Now, I was thinking... I know that a lot of these worlds have a central form of government with the Imperium governing the strongest force. What if the planet was on the edges of the galaxy (or far enough out of the way) and the Imperial guard force wasn't enough to control the population. Apparently abandoned, Imperial Guard commanders fought amongst themselves and split forces. Doing so created countries and over thousands of years these countries all developed a twisted view of what the Imperium is. Their main goal is survival and power between the nations. Conflicts rage between them and alliances are struck. The occasional alien invasion happens... they kill them and go back to killing each other.
I want a divided world. One where the Imperium can't (or hasnt yet) enforce it's rule, leaving whatever remains of technology and populace still on the planet surface. Planet to planet travel be kept to a minimum (only other immediate planets who are as desperate as they are). Thousands of years later, they still survive but with only a shred of the memory of the Imperium.
I really enjoy the 'small scale' 40k battles. (when you really think about it a 2000 point battle is really just a skirmish with about 100 models total). These 'skirmishes' can really fit into a campaign that i'd like to run that takes place on this world. Once I draw it all up and get the models for it.
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Post by macknight on Mar 15, 2013 17:58:51 GMT -5
For catachan fluff, look up 'death world', 'waiting death'(audio book); 'commissar' has a huge catachan harkerish rebel, but its mostly vostroyan fluff and some penal legion.
'13th legion', 'kill team', and 'annihilation squad' has good penal fluff.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Mar 15, 2013 18:14:41 GMT -5
Remember, there are an astronomical number of planets in the galaxy... *Family Guy Ostrich voice* "Ah-haaaaaaa!" I see what you did there. Colonel Beauregard: Also consider the possibility that it is a planet that was settled by humans before the Age of Strife (when warp travel became impossible and the first human galactic civilization collapsed) and was not re-discovered during the Great Crusade before things went all Horus-y, and still has yet to be re-discovered by the Imperium. That could provide you with an out for avoiding the whole retribution of the Imperium thing for actively rebelling. There certainly are allusions in the fluff to the Imperium losing just as many human-inhabited worlds to alien invasion, chaos corruption, etc. as it re-discovers over any given period of time which could justify that approach.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Mar 15, 2013 18:27:04 GMT -5
No worries Beauregard. Since my brain decided to remember that instead of all the math I've learned since high school, I may as well try to put it to good use.
Now, about planetary forces and local Imperial government. As a rule of thumb, each planet has an Imperial governor, or an Ecclesiarchy or Mechanicus equivalent depending on who's running the show. Theoretically, this person is responsible for running the planet. In practice, it depends on how competent the governor is, local politics, etc, but the upshot is that the governor is the one responsible for three main tasks, and will be blamed if they aren't met. First and foremost, they're responsible for meeting the world's tithe, both in terms of resources and Guard foundings. Second, they have to ensure that the populace stays loyal to the Imperium. Third, they are responsible for ensuring that the planet has a defense force capable of defending the planet, or at least holding on until the Guard arrives to do all the work, then the space marines show up to take the credit.
Anyway, keep in mind that the PDF may not be the only military force, or my be fractured along regional lines. Noble houses often retain small, infantry-centric forces that are usually well equipped, but not fit for proper military operations. Merchant guilds may have large numbers of guards or goons to protect their various interests, and individual hives, cities, or regional governments may maintain their own armed forces, either in addition to the PDF, or as a regional command of the PDF. If you want a fractured planet, one option is to have the Imperial governor dies with no heirs, and the Administratium doesn't step in to provide a replacement for whatever reason (either they weren't aware of the situation, the orders got lost, whatever). The various other political power players scramble to try and take over for the deceased governor, the PDF commanders start picking sides, the Arbites are too few to keep order, and the whole mess devolves into civil war without the Imperium really noticing. Turn the clock forward a few dozen decades, and you'll probably have what you're looking for.
Reds
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 16, 2013 12:30:36 GMT -5
macknight - thanks mate. I'll check those out. @troop - I think that it would be difficult considering the armies I would be purchasing have all the standard gear of imperial troopers. If they were separated from the Imperium for 10000+ years then I'm sure the "lasgun" and other essential technology would look completely different. This is a cool idea, but certainly out of my budget and talent. @reds - That scenario you described seems perfect for what I'm going for. Civil war raging between remnants of IG and with no relief in sight. The few Arbites and Inquisitors left are true to the Imperium but are driven underground to fight a guerrilla war. The leaders of the forces are in a constant struggle to not succumb to each other. I'm using the Lexicanum Wiki to read the history on pretty much everything 40k. I hope to write a short story about the planet's history soon. Thanks so much guys!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Mar 16, 2013 12:41:17 GMT -5
Remember, proper IG regiments would have only been on the world if they were stationed there previously (meaning the world has some strategic value), or if a small detachment was sent to sort things out and was totally overwhelmed by the situation. Similarly, Inqusitors being present would probably mean they'd call in a large army group to quash the rebellion before it got too far. Unless, of course, the Inquisitor(s) wanted the rebellion to happen for whatever reason...
Reds
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Post by Paradill on Mar 16, 2013 12:44:01 GMT -5
Inquisitors aren't going to be there in the plural and probably not at all mate. You're lucky (or unlucky depending on whether they're after you or not) to get one inquisitor on a planet, let alone several. And if they were, they would have been able to avoid the infighting scenario Reds described.
Inquisitors have the ability to use any and all imperial assets merely by pointing and saying "I want that". They would have simply appointed an interim governor or acted as one themselves, the PDF would have had to obey them as would anyone who didn't want a gunshot to the face.
If they did kill inquisitors/force them underground, the imperium would definitely take notice and a battle fleet would be on the way to quell any heresy. Best to stick to "governor dies, politically powerful scrabble for power, PDF takes sides and arbites overwhelmed/join up with a 'main' PDF faction" scenario I reckon. Inquisitors are relatively rare individuals and its unlikely they would be there unless there was something shady already happening (which actually could be a great mystery behind your fluff) anyhow that's my two pennies.
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 16, 2013 12:55:12 GMT -5
Inquisitors aren't going to be there in the plural and probably not at all mate. Inquisitors are relatively rare individuals and its unlikely they would be there unless there was something shady already happening (which actually could be a great mystery behind your fluff) anyhow that's my two pennies. You forget the daemons... Some armies will be siding with daemons. And while any Inquisitor(s) would know about the incursion, they also can be tainted by chaos, ever so slightly. Just enough so that it could stay their hand from calling daddy Imperium. RedsandRoyals - Remember, proper IG regiments would have only been on the world if they were stationed there previously (meaning the world has some strategic value) Unless a large transport ship full of troops was lost and never found. Or I could just say to hell with 'proper IG' regiments and have all of their training come from the on-world nations.
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Post by Paradill on Mar 16, 2013 13:03:06 GMT -5
*sigh* inquisitors. I don't know why they need to be in everything but never mind...
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Mar 16, 2013 13:06:51 GMT -5
@troop - I think that it would be difficult considering the armies I would be purchasing have all the standard gear of imperial troopers. If they were separated from the Imperium for 10000+ years then I'm sure the "lasgun" and other essential technology would look completely different. This is a cool idea, but certainly out of my budget and talent. Actually, not necessarily so, since the vast majority of equipment used by humans is based on the Standard Template Construct, which was a system that had been used by the earliest human colonists and certainly the latter ones before the Age of Strife to produce all of the technological implements that they would need on a colony world. In fact, the Adeptus Mechanicus prize STC systems so much that they go to great lengths to recover STC data engines and production devices--even if it's for something as mundane as the design for a toaster--and regard doing so as a holy mission. So you would be perfectly justified using the same equipment in your army as the regular Imperium does--you'd just have to remove the Imperial iconography from it.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Mar 16, 2013 13:10:24 GMT -5
That's sort of what Paradill and I were suggesting about the Inquisitor. Even if they weren't outright traitors, there are radical factions within the Imperium that believe strife and conflict internally can help strengthen the Imperium. If you're going that route though, starting a civil war on your world should, theoretically, have provided an opportunity to strengthen the Imperium, such as a proving ground for thousands of Guard troopers, ensuring the surviving units emerged battled hardened. Since the civil war has gone on for so long, though, it's likely that the Inquisitor's plan has gone awry, and either the Inquisitor who instigated it initially died and left the current mess, still believes the situation can be salvaged, or has pulled a nutter or turned to Chaos and simply doesn't care about their original goal anymore.
As for who the remaining loyalist troops are, I think PDF is your best bet (remember, the PDF and IG aren't the same thing). They could have formed the core of the "loyalist" faction initially. If you're looking at 100 years down the line, though, I think what you said about them being locally raised and trained forces makes the most sense. They'd have the combat experience to go toe to toe with most Guard units in terms of skill, without you having to justify why a bunch of Guard units were there in the first place.
Also, a tip about fluff; Never have too many coincidences going on at once, otherwise it will seem just silly. For example, Inquisitors are few and far between compared to the planets of the Imperium, so as Paradill said, you'd only have one there, maybe two if another one followed him there to try and foil whatever scheme he was planning. The more inquisitors you have floating around, the more likely it is that one of them just says "To hell with this" and brings the Hammer of the Emperor down on the whole situation. So, again, one or two plotting behind the scenes, but try to limit it to that. Likewise, having a troop ship full of IG randomly show up at the planet is a bit of a stretch, and again increases the chance someone will ring the Imperium (repeatedly) for help. Even if the Inquisitor tells the Guard commanders not to do that, there's always a chance one or more of them will decide that the situation isn't going well, and go behind the Inquisitor's back to call for help. Even if it costs them their life, they would justify it by helping to ensure that the world remains in the hands of the Emperor.
As a general rule, the more offworlders you have involved in the situation, the more likely it is that the Imperium will come down like a ton of bricks on the situation rather than let it fester for so long. If you want to add a layer of conspiracy, throw in the scheming Inquisitor. If you want to keep it simple and more plausible, have the loyalists be PDF and Arbites remnants, plus whatever remains of the various Imperial adaptes.
Reds
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 16, 2013 13:11:45 GMT -5
*sigh* inquisitors. I don't know why they need to be in everything but never mind... I wouldn't know why they have to be in everything... I've never read about them. Sorry if it's overplayed bro. Daemons are in this story so I assume an inquisitor or two would be involved. But! **TWIST** if they were tainted inquisitors (not the 'holier than though daemon' kind) they would still be compelled to do stuff to stop it but they would do more harm than good. ie: I need to stop that daemonic alliance! -> Blows up IG HQ that was allying with daemons... now the daemons have unequivocal control of that area. Oh. well, damn.
Edit: After what Red said... I guess it makes sense. Plus, it might be wayyy too much effort to put the inquisitor in there and then taint them and blah blah. I might do it later... might not. I dunno yet. I suppose the easiest (and more acceptable to you fluff guys) would be the isolated PDF forces.
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Post by Paradill on Mar 16, 2013 13:22:08 GMT -5
That's the same twist as most 40k games/literature My point was that if inquisitors are involved then the imperium knows and if the imperium knows they will come down on you with force. Daemonic activity won't necessarily draw the attention of an inquisitor, it just as equally could draw the attention of the Grey Knights or an imperial Navy patrol. Psykers get a bit iffy around daemons so astropathic relays nearby would go mental and start screaming or letting more daemons spill through via their mutated minds. That sort of stuff gets noticed, and if it co-includes with an inquisitors visit the the inquisition as a whole will want a fleet and expeditionary force there to ensure that the inquisitor hasn't turned rogue and to sort the situation out.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Mar 16, 2013 13:25:18 GMT -5
Keep in mind, what we're saying is just what's most likely given the established 40k fluff out there. If you want to do your own thing, go ahead. Reds
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Post by Paradill on Mar 16, 2013 13:29:51 GMT -5
Yeah what Reds said. I'm only trying to offer advice as to how best fit it into the established lore.
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Post by Colonel Beauregard on Mar 16, 2013 13:35:17 GMT -5
Question: How detrimental would it be to a far off world to have all the psychers and astropaths die off? I mean... isn't that how the imperium communicates? Wouldn't the death of all of them prevent any communication with the big guy? (Besides, I never bring any psychers in my army lists). Plus it would prevent interstellar travel since they cannot manipulate the warp and they would have to keep their space travel limited to the local solar system.
...or am I completely wrong here?
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Post by Paradill on Mar 16, 2013 13:40:52 GMT -5
Without any psykers (including navigators) there would be no communication with the imperium and no travel beyond their own solar system.
Equally, daemons love eating psykers.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Mar 16, 2013 13:53:47 GMT -5
Without any psykers (including navigators) there would be no communication with the imperium and no travel beyond their own solar system. Equally, daemons love eating psykers. Actually, Warp travel is possible without a navigator. It takes painstaking calculations and lots of short range jumps, but it's possible. The real problem is if you're in the Warp and your Navigator dies, making it near impossible to get back out again without risking the annihilation of the entire ship. But yeah, short of a very lucky ship being able to carry messages to a nearby system that does have psykers, then the world in question is screwed. Reds
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