The Mighty Lasgun

[dur3ndal]

The cruxI was running the numbers, and I'm pretty sure that with FRFSRF the lasgun is the best weapon to equip your mobile platoon with for the points. In a stationary platoon then heavy weapons are better, but it really doesn't look like there's much reason to give your line squads special weapons. The crux of my argument is that for every 5 points you spend on a special weapon, you could just get another guardsman with a flashlight. Even ignoring the benefits of having more bodies (more wounds, better in CC), you just don't get more killing power by spending those points on special weapons.
 
This is vs MEQ.
 
Math
 
Lasgun
2 Shots
* 1/2 Hit Chance
*1/3 Wound
*1/3 Failed Saves
= 11.1% chance to wound per 5 points
 
Grenade Launcher
1 Shot
* 1/2 Hit Chance
* 5/6 Wound Chance
*1/3 Failed Save
=6.9% Wound per 5 points
 
Plasma Gun
1 Shot
*1/2 Hit Chance
*5/6 Wound Chance
=10.4% Wound per 5 points
 
The Flamer is of course a different animal. It's not really a generalist weapon. If you get it into position to unload on 3+ models, then it'll pay for itself in spades. However as a general purpose tool for a line squad, it just won't be shooting very much. Melta falls into a similar trap, plus a totally different role. A Sniper Rifle is more effective than more las guns IF you remain still. But a heavy weapon would be better for the points in that case regardless.
 
In rapid fire range the plasma gun will bump up to 20.8% wounds per 5 points vs the Lasgun 16.7%. Against TEQ they're more equivilent, with Lasguns producing 5% per 5 points and the Plasma getting about 6.9% vs the 5++. However, when you factor in the Gets Hot chance, it comes to about the same. Plague marines and other T5+ high save units are the only thing that plasma really pulls ahead on. So if that's worth losing 3 more wounds, go for it. Additionally, one of the key benefits of just stocking up on flashlights is that every soldier truly does become expendable. You don't need to worry about wound allocation amongst your vanilla guardsmen, your special weapons can't get sniped out by templates, etc... Not to mention the increased durability and CC effectiveness.
 
 
Thoughts? Am I totally wrong or losing my mind?

[hendrik]

nop, hence why meltas an plasma gets reseverd for veterans, and flamers are a no brainer on any blob unit moving forward

[dur3ndal]

I wonder if the flamer is even worth it. It seems like you don't gain much, because your opponent can mitigate the effectiveness of the template, and in a firefight your strongest range is 12 - 24, because the lasgun only gains a 50% increase vs other rapidfire weapons doubling in effectiveness. So you lose effectiveness in the range you should be staying in for d3 hits if you get charged. Just seems like those points should be going to something with better killing potential.

[Paradill]

Math, the fastest way to suck the fun out of toy soldiers.

Your maths is probably correct, but its boring. Line squads with nothing but lasguns are boring.

Special weapons are cool. They look cool and if you use your imagination they make really cool explosions and bursts of fire.

[Empirespy]

For the cost of another guardsman, you get a ignores cover better strength and AP than said guardsman's lasgun, the potential to get more hits (also less) and an auto D3 hits for overwatch. There's your killing potential...

[WestRider]

The point of the Special Weapons isn't, in general, to increase the Unit's raw killing power against Infantry. The point is to expand their threat profile to make them a threat to more than just Infantry.

I run my Fire Support Platoon with Plasma and either Autocannon or Lascannon, because their primary role is taking out light-medium Armour, and they pretty much always have support from either Prescience or Bring it Down, so Plasma is still reliable even at BS3.

My Assault Platoon, on the other hand, has a mix of Meltaguns and Flamers, with the specific balance depending on how big I'm running it. The Melta is there to make them a potential threat to even serious Armour, the Flamers are there to rack up some extra hits on faster Units that are usually Assaulting them. 60 Lasgun shots and a couple of Flamers are usually enough to add an inch or two to anyone's Charge Distance.

[hendrik]

westrider, have you experienced running a melta special weapon squad behind that assault platoon instead of putting the meltas in the blob? i'm curious on how that would play out since now your melta gunners can shoot another target then the main blob

[WestRider]

I used to run a PCS behind them with the Meltas, but it was way too obvious a target, and they'd just get shot off the board long before they got into Melta range. That was back in 5th, when they got 4+ Cover for the intervening Unit and weren't a potential First Blood VP. In 6th, they'd just die even faster.

Also, I often use an Allied Wolf Priest with the Saga of the Hunter to Outflank that Platoon, and he can only bring one Unit along with him.