Post by darebear on Jul 25, 2013 20:30:45 GMT -5
Ok, hopefully someone can give me some adivice here. I am going to try to articulate my 40K experience in a formless, rambling way.
My only real opponent is a good friend of mine who plays Blood Angels. We are both more collectors and painters than players. Neither of us have any experience with other armies (although I do also play Chaos Space Marines and Daemons). Both of our armies are large, 3500 pts for him and 7000+ for me. He has lots of predators, land raiders, vindicators, rhinos, dreads, 20 jump troops, marines, ect. We often play around 2500 points. Usually he fields 20 jump troops, 10 assault marines, 20 tactical marines, plus vehicles. He has no drop pods or flyers. My Steel Legion army boasts 7 leman russ, 8 chimera, 1 hellhound, 3 armored sentinels, 2 forge world armageddon medusas, 2 forge world colossus bombards, 2 vendettas, 1 vulture with punisher cannons, 30 psyker battle troops, 30 storm troopers, 100 riflemen, 4 dozen special weapons troops and 24 heavy weapons teams (320 troops in all).
So, we both have a large force which can outfit itself as mech or foot. My problem is in the assault. If he goes first his Rhinos on turn 1 zoom up 24" and park in front of me. If I destroy them his guys simply get out and assault on turn 2 (I will kill some of the survivors for sure, but enough marines to cause me problems always seem to linger afterwards). If I hold off on destroying the transports then he gets out on turn 2 and assaults on turn 3. Either way, I really only have 1 turn of shooting before all hell breaks loose. With the new casualty removal rules even if I give my guys power weapons they die before then strike. If I blob up he just grinds me down and often destoys me on my turn, allowing another assault. Between armor saves and feel no pain he is almost impossible to stop. Overwatch fire is a joke. Drop troops come down, melta a tank and assault next turn. Sometimes we go overboard on the terrain and I think this gives him more of an advantage since he can hide before assaulting. He has a dreadnaught with the Blood Talons as well. This monstrosity is the most loathed model that I regularly face. It is truly horrible.
If the game goes long I can often pull out a draw since my vehicles eventually get the upper hand and cause significant casualties. However my infantry almost always get slaughtered whereever they appear. We often play the scenarios fro 3rd and 4th edition (we like them better for their variety). However, no matter what scenario we play storming an objective with infantry is laughable.
Anyway, being a long time collector, but somewhat of an armchair commissar of the 41st millenium I really would appreciate some advice on what to do about fast APCs which are in you face before you blink. Going non mech seems pointless since he is on me before I know it and even 2-3 marines beat me to a pulp. Going mech just prolongs the inevitable since he meltas and assaults the Chimeras. As I said we are both inexperienced, being primarily a painter, with 40K being a side game as Warhammer Fantasy is our main hobby (he loves close combat in both games). We play perhaps 3 times a month and sadly there is no one else around to get more practice with.
So, advice would be appreciated, in general terms. Mech up? Go on foot? Blob? Single squads? Lots of heavy weapons teams? Try using assault redirectors (i.e naked special weapon squads or infantry squads)? One thing I have found is my leman russ tanks with battle cannons and sponsons are no where near as powerful as before. Not being able to shoot plasma along with a battle cannon is heartbreaking. I am thinking of playing Eradicator tanks with plasmas and heavy bolters, just to force as many armor saves as possible with a single tank. My lists that I can field are almost endless since my tanks have swappable weapons for almost all of them. My only real victories are when I have played as an Armored Company. However, he often counters next game with his own tanks and we end up with the battle of Kursk. I guess I should be thankful he has no flyers or drop pods.
Thoughts?
My only real opponent is a good friend of mine who plays Blood Angels. We are both more collectors and painters than players. Neither of us have any experience with other armies (although I do also play Chaos Space Marines and Daemons). Both of our armies are large, 3500 pts for him and 7000+ for me. He has lots of predators, land raiders, vindicators, rhinos, dreads, 20 jump troops, marines, ect. We often play around 2500 points. Usually he fields 20 jump troops, 10 assault marines, 20 tactical marines, plus vehicles. He has no drop pods or flyers. My Steel Legion army boasts 7 leman russ, 8 chimera, 1 hellhound, 3 armored sentinels, 2 forge world armageddon medusas, 2 forge world colossus bombards, 2 vendettas, 1 vulture with punisher cannons, 30 psyker battle troops, 30 storm troopers, 100 riflemen, 4 dozen special weapons troops and 24 heavy weapons teams (320 troops in all).
So, we both have a large force which can outfit itself as mech or foot. My problem is in the assault. If he goes first his Rhinos on turn 1 zoom up 24" and park in front of me. If I destroy them his guys simply get out and assault on turn 2 (I will kill some of the survivors for sure, but enough marines to cause me problems always seem to linger afterwards). If I hold off on destroying the transports then he gets out on turn 2 and assaults on turn 3. Either way, I really only have 1 turn of shooting before all hell breaks loose. With the new casualty removal rules even if I give my guys power weapons they die before then strike. If I blob up he just grinds me down and often destoys me on my turn, allowing another assault. Between armor saves and feel no pain he is almost impossible to stop. Overwatch fire is a joke. Drop troops come down, melta a tank and assault next turn. Sometimes we go overboard on the terrain and I think this gives him more of an advantage since he can hide before assaulting. He has a dreadnaught with the Blood Talons as well. This monstrosity is the most loathed model that I regularly face. It is truly horrible.
If the game goes long I can often pull out a draw since my vehicles eventually get the upper hand and cause significant casualties. However my infantry almost always get slaughtered whereever they appear. We often play the scenarios fro 3rd and 4th edition (we like them better for their variety). However, no matter what scenario we play storming an objective with infantry is laughable.
Anyway, being a long time collector, but somewhat of an armchair commissar of the 41st millenium I really would appreciate some advice on what to do about fast APCs which are in you face before you blink. Going non mech seems pointless since he is on me before I know it and even 2-3 marines beat me to a pulp. Going mech just prolongs the inevitable since he meltas and assaults the Chimeras. As I said we are both inexperienced, being primarily a painter, with 40K being a side game as Warhammer Fantasy is our main hobby (he loves close combat in both games). We play perhaps 3 times a month and sadly there is no one else around to get more practice with.
So, advice would be appreciated, in general terms. Mech up? Go on foot? Blob? Single squads? Lots of heavy weapons teams? Try using assault redirectors (i.e naked special weapon squads or infantry squads)? One thing I have found is my leman russ tanks with battle cannons and sponsons are no where near as powerful as before. Not being able to shoot plasma along with a battle cannon is heartbreaking. I am thinking of playing Eradicator tanks with plasmas and heavy bolters, just to force as many armor saves as possible with a single tank. My lists that I can field are almost endless since my tanks have swappable weapons for almost all of them. My only real victories are when I have played as an Armored Company. However, he often counters next game with his own tanks and we end up with the battle of Kursk. I guess I should be thankful he has no flyers or drop pods.
Thoughts?