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Post by RedCuffs on Sept 12, 2013 9:18:38 GMT -5
The only Space marine models that I like are the Scouts and the Land Speeders. I’ve not wanted to buy, build or own any of the other SM models except those. And a list with just those wouldn’t be much too look at with the old codex But now scouts can take a Land Speeder Storm as a dedicated transport … !!! And one for each combat squad !!! My zeal is renewed !!! I am now looking at fielding 12 Combat Squads of Scouts each with their own Land Speeder Storm as a dedicated transport !!! And they’ll have three squadrons of normal Land Speeders for support. But … I’m going to have to think up something for an HQ. And that’s where I’m looking for a bit of advice or any ideas I’m considering making a Captain and Command Squad on skimming bikes out of some Scout Bikes. They’ll look like scouts at least but they’ll have a SM statline. It’s a fluff list really. Made to look good above anything else. I know that everything with a Carapace Armour save riding around in open topped vehicles with the lowest possible armour and hull points makes for an extremely fragile army. But I can’t help wondering exactly how hard-hitting I could actually make it? All deep striking, fast moving, Melta-tastic
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Post by RedCuffs on Sept 12, 2013 15:37:56 GMT -5
Further to my last ...
We all know what Space Marine Scouts and Land Speeders can and can't do.
If there is an army list with just those two FOC choices in, Which HQ choices would be the best options? And why?
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Post by optimat on Sept 12, 2013 16:48:25 GMT -5
I went for the same originally with a CF army but bottled it. Fluff wise remember that the commander for the 10th company according to the codex would still be a veteran of the chapter and would have been in full power armour for quite a while.
As you suggest, the best way to go might be a cheaply kitted out bike captain who can keep up with land speeders, and attach him to a scout bike squad.
It wouldn't look out of place if you went all the way and did a good job making that squad the centre piece of the army
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Post by WestRider on Sept 12, 2013 21:42:02 GMT -5
Unless I'm missing something, you can still only buy one Dedicated Transport per Squad before Combat Squadding. I don't see any exceptions for the Scouts/Storm.
Using Raven Guard Chapter Tactics will let you Scout up a Captain and Command Squad. Gives Stealth (which stacks with Camo Cloaks) to all your Scouts in Turn 1, too. Not really optimal other than that, but it'll let you keep to that theme.
Otherwise, either a Biker Captain or in a Drop Pod, with a Command Squad either way.
Salamanders are the only other Chapter Tactic that really seems like it would help much here.
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Post by RedCuffs on Sept 14, 2013 7:23:36 GMT -5
I suppose sixty scouts can benefit from nearly all the HQ's. Being susceptible to anything flamer I see how being Salamanders would be an advantage. As it will be a Very shooty, High mobility but ultimately fragile list anything that benefits those three factors would be good.
As for the amount of dedicated transports I can have. I've had this conversation a few times. I've scoured both the codex and the rule book. There's nothing saying I can but there's nothing saying I can't.
Against is that you must declare "Combat Squading " Immediately before choosing warlord traits. That's quite a way along in the setting up of the game. Maybe too late to buy a transport for them. But then that's when you declare it. I can't see why I can't buy the transports earlier in the setup if you know you will be Combat Squading.
In favour the codex says that a Combat Squad is a unit in it's own right for all aspects of the game. I assume this means having transports too.
In the end I phoned up GW. And the man on the phone said yes, you can. In fact he used the example of getting 12 razorbacks with lascannons onto the field by Combat Squading six tactical squads. Which he said is something you could have done in 5th ed too.
I emailed the design team and asked for it to be include in the FAQ's so hopefully it will be cleared up soon either way.
But if I don't get to have my dozen LS Storms cutting about the board "Teddy" is going to be going for a long haul flight !!!
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Post by RedCuffs on Sept 18, 2013 9:56:40 GMT -5
Interested to know what anyone thinks of using the "iron Hands" chapter tactics for this type of list. Scouts are fragile so the Feel No Pain seems sensible and as I intend to have them all thrashing about in Land Speeders "It will Not Die" may be of use to the equally fragile speeders.
If anyone can see how the application of another chapter tactic or HQ would be better I'll be interested to hear your input.
Just started putting together a few lists for my "All scouts and Land Speeder Army". If I want to stay within 2000 points and be a little competitive I couldn't afford 12 Storms or 9 Land Speeders (points wise). If I take allies I could field 8 storms with 8 five scout squads and four squadrons of normal landspeeders with two in each squadron. Still doesn't give me much left for the two HQ's on bikes that I'll need to keep the theme.
So just having 6 storms (for the 6 scout squads) and 6 land Speeders in 3 squadrons may be the best starting point for me.
It's all a long way off yet but I've started the first of the models.
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Post by WestRider on Sept 18, 2013 13:07:07 GMT -5
6+FNP really isn't worth much, and Speeders are too fragile to really benefit from IWND. I use Speeders fairly frequently myself, and it's extremely rare for them to exist in any state besides "fine" or "dead", since basically anything that actually shoots at them will completely destroy them.
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Post by RedCuffs on Sept 18, 2013 13:46:32 GMT -5
So if not Iron-Hands who then? Maybe it would help to know what the 2000 point list consists of?
Initially :- 2 x 5-man Scout squads. Msl Lcr (+ Flakk) and Sniper Rifles. 2 x LS Storm with Heavy Flamers.
4 x 5-man Scout squads. Msl Lcr (+ Flakk) and Bolt Guns. 4 x LS Storm with Heavy Bolters.
2 x LS with Typhoon Msl Lcr. 2 x LS with double Multi Melta. 2 x LS with double Multi Melta.
I could spend the remaining points in two ways.
An HQ and Command Squad on bikes that are the best Psychopathic CC squad possible. or Two bog standard captains on bikes (one an allied HQ) with two more allied scout squads (one sniper, one bolter) and another pair of LS as the allied fast attack choice.
I'm not really a big fan of the combat phase of the game. It bores me. But it's difficult to be competitive without any CC elements.
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Post by WestRider on Sept 18, 2013 20:38:46 GMT -5
Since you're using a fair number of Bolter Scouts, Imperial Fists might be worth using. Crimson Fists use the same Chapter Tactics and are noted for having lots of Scouts, since they're trying to replenish their numbers.
Salamanders are probably also worth considering. Get some more utility out of the Heavy Flamers and Master-Craft a couple of Sniper Rifles.
Raven Guard would let you Scout a foot Command Squad up, and give them Stealth at the start of the Game.
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Post by RedCuffs on Sept 19, 2013 12:17:14 GMT -5
I thought about Raven Guard but I don't think my playing style is subtle enough for their tactics. Bolter Drill does looks attractive considering 20 bolt weapons as a minimum but I won't use the siege Tactics of the Fists. Salamanders give me a bit of protection from flamers, my scouts will need that and enhance the effect of the two that I have. The bit that I missed was master Crafted weapon for characters ... mmmmm !!! I like that !!! The First Scouts of the chapter "Questoris Arduat". Haven't decided who their founding chapter is yet. The Dorito is there purely for scale.
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Post by WestRider on Sept 19, 2013 18:02:22 GMT -5
Oh, I thought the Dorito was The Relic Those are looking really good, I hope you manage to get them to work on the tabletop, too.
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Post by that1guy on Oct 10, 2013 21:36:54 GMT -5
I'm just a noob, so take my posts with a grain or skepticism. But you're talking Scout's and HQ's and... I'm just thinking of the Ultramarines Scout Sergeant Telion. Then you'd have a bunch more scouts to go with your scouts.
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Post by Warsmith Wolf on Oct 11, 2013 18:39:04 GMT -5
I'm just a noob, so take my posts with a grain or skepticism. But you're talking Scout's and HQ's and... I'm just thinking of the Ultramarines Scout Sergeant Telion. Then you'd have a bunch more scouts to go with your scouts. Telion is a Sergeant upgrade, much like Gunnery Sergeant Harker. For a good HQ, perhaps consider a Chaplain? All that Leadership-buffing goodness could keep your Scouts in the fray for a little longer.
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Post by that1guy on Oct 16, 2013 22:08:20 GMT -5
I'm just a noob, so take my posts with a grain or skepticism. But you're talking Scout's and HQ's and... I'm just thinking of the Ultramarines Scout Sergeant Telion. Then you'd have a bunch more scouts to go with your scouts. Telion is a Sergeant upgrade, much like Gunnery Sergeant Harker. For a good HQ, perhaps consider a Chaplain? All that Leadership-buffing goodness could keep your Scouts in the fray for a little longer. Oh, because I just read the 2nd ultra-marines omnibus and from the sound of the way he took control of the scout company... he was the HQ. Serves me right for assuming GW could make rules to work along with the fluff. Stupid noobs need to keep their type happy fingers in check.
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Post by WestRider on Oct 20, 2013 14:02:25 GMT -5
Telion may well be the one actually running the show, but by rank and position, he's just a Sergeant within a Squad. Last I checked, Captain Antilochus was still the Captain of the Ultramarines 10th Company.
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Post by RedCuffs on Oct 25, 2013 6:52:09 GMT -5
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Post by WestRider on Oct 25, 2013 13:06:11 GMT -5
If you ever decide you want to run Counts-As Dark Angels, that would make an excellent Sammael.
From the basic Marine Dex, I would suggest a Chapter Master on a Bike with Artificier Armour and The Shield Eternal, plus some kind of nasty CCW, Power Fist or something. Assume the stat buffs relative to a Captain are due to the vehicle.
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Post by dougeye on Nov 4, 2013 17:13:45 GMT -5
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Post by WestRider on Nov 4, 2013 19:36:02 GMT -5
Of course 5 Man Squads can take their Dedicated Transport. The argument was about the fact that 10 Man Squads can't take 2 Dedicated Transports. They don't Combat Squad into two 5 Man Squads until immediately before Deployment, long after you can make Changes in the Army List.
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Post by RedCuffs on Nov 23, 2013 22:37:03 GMT -5
Yeah, the more I think about it the more it seems a bit too fanciful to be allowed two Storms per Tac Sqd. Although I am praying for it to come out that way in the errata. Dougeye, the forgeworld jet bike did have my attention for a while but I fancied trying to make my own type. Here's another attempt at a HQ on a skimmer. And bothe skimmer HQ's next to a scout manned land speeder.
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