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Post by WestRider on Nov 16, 2013 13:45:48 GMT -5
This thing is such a game-changer for IG. Coteaz (or a regular inquisitor or both) as a Battle Brother means things like ridiculously cheap Divination access, specialist GK Grenades and Hammerhand in Power Blobs, Servo Skulls that can reduce the Scatter on our Blasts, protectable Warlords with access to good Warlord Trait tables, AND the ability to take regular Allies as well. It's insanely good, and starts at like 55 Points for a baseline Divination Inquisitor, with no added Troops requirement.
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Post by Empirespy on Nov 16, 2013 14:32:12 GMT -5
What actually is this codex contain? Does it replace Grey knights and the Sisters, or is it just the strictly inquisition section?
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Post by WestRider on Nov 16, 2013 15:31:40 GMT -5
Strictly Inquisition. Inquisitors, Henchmen, Dedicated Transports. But they can be taken as a Primary Detachment (no one is ever going to do this), a regular Allied Detachment, or a special Inquisitorial Detachment that still allows for a normal Allied Detachment as well. The Inquisitorial Detachment is something like 1-2 Inquisitors+0-3 Henchman Squads.
An Inquisitor can be your Warlord regardless of what Detachment they're part of, and they have pretty good Warlord Trait tables, particularly Ordo Xenos.
So basically my IG+SW Army is now going to be IG+SW+INQ, with 3-5 levels worth of Divination, Servo Skulls to keep people from creeping up on me, and Rad/Psykotroke Grenades in my Power Blob, with Coteaz as my Warlord so I can get way more aggressive with my CCS.
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Post by emptyhat on Nov 16, 2013 17:25:14 GMT -5
Does it bump up Sisters the same way?
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Post by WestRider on Nov 16, 2013 18:25:23 GMT -5
It helps Sisters significantly, but because the base they're working from isn't as good, the buffs can't do as much. Also, Sisters already have access to some of the good options in the Henchmen section in their Battle Conclave, so access to those makes less of a difference.
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Post by RocKStaR on Nov 16, 2013 20:22:23 GMT -5
So the codex doesn't specifically state if an inquisitor in terminator armor can or can not use a Valkyrie or chimera, and how much room they take up. For the rhino and razorbacks it does specify, so I would assume that it would be legal to have the termi inquisitor in either the valk or chimera and it would take up two spaces based on last edition rules (still haven't made it to 6th...). Can I get some confirmation or speculation?
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Post by WestRider on Nov 16, 2013 20:38:42 GMT -5
Unless there's some specific restriction, any Infantry Model can Embark on any Transport. If they updated the entry on Terminator Armour to match the other 6th Ed Codexes, it will have the Bulky special Rule, and thus take up two slots in a Transport. I'll be able to answer for certain once I scrape up the cash to actually get my own copy, I'm working from (very detailed) reviews right now.
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Post by RocKStaR on Nov 16, 2013 20:41:20 GMT -5
Ok so in that case it would be legal then, because as I mentioned only the rhino and razorback say they cannot carry bulky units
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Post by hendrik on Nov 17, 2013 14:55:45 GMT -5
damn, this sounds really promising!
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Post by BG. Foster on Nov 17, 2013 17:21:33 GMT -5
If anyone has this can you please PM me?
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Post by caimheul on Nov 18, 2013 9:10:49 GMT -5
As far as I can tell from reading the Codex, you do NOT have the option of taking them as a normal allied detachment, only a Primary detachment (which makes henchmen count as scoring), and the "special Inquisition Detachment," which works as westrider outlines above. I think this is to prevent you from taking them as a special detachment AND an allied detachment. The Force Org for the Inquisition (whether or not it is the primary) is 1-2 HQ, 0-3 Elites.
As there is no Troops selection, Coteaz makes the warbands scoring.
One thing that the codex offers that I'm strongly considering is the Chimera with psybolt ammunition... 6 S6 AP4 shots for 60 points at 36"? Not a bad thing in my mind!
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Post by WestRider on Nov 18, 2013 11:35:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I got that wrong. I do believe that Warbands are also Scoring if INQ is the Primary Detachment, regardless of whether or not Coteaz is around.
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Post by caimheul on Nov 18, 2013 12:48:24 GMT -5
Yup, that is correct. Given that the ONLY options in the codex are various Inquisitors for HQ (Coteaz, Karamazov, and one from each of the major Ordos), Henchmen warbands for the Elite option, and Dedicated transports (Rhino, Razorback, Chimera, Valkyrie, LR, LR Crusader, and LR Redeemer), there wouldn't be a way to score otherwise (without taking Coteaz).
Interesting thing I haven't seen in any of the reviews, but the Inquisitorial detachment has a separate Allies matrix that defines the relationship between the Inquisition allies and your normal Allies...
Example from the book: If you add an Inquisitor to a IG/Tau list, the Inquisitor will treat the IG as Battle Brothers, but the Tau as Desperate Allies. Not 100% sure how the "Come the apocalypse" stuff works for the Inquisition when your primary list can ally with that army... (Such as Orks and Necrons)
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Post by WestRider on Nov 18, 2013 14:35:24 GMT -5
Yeah, we've been wondering about that over on Ordo. Some people hold that you can't include Allies that are Come The Apocalypse with INQ even if your Primary detachment could normally Ally with them, while others are going pure RAW and saying that because it's undefined what happens there, you just kind of roll with it, like the Inquisitor and the Chaos Lord Allied to the IG Army just sort of side-eye each other, go "um this is awkward", and pretend to not notice each other. I must admit, I'm amused enough by the comedic potential of the second option that I kind of have to favour it
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Post by yvain on Nov 20, 2013 14:19:24 GMT -5
With these new options, what is the best use for the warband for guard?
Obviously there is some added close combat use. With Cotaez you can throw down some crusaders and acolytes and get a good durable objective grabber.
Counter assault unit with a few crusaders with some acolytes and a priest seems pretty nice for gunlines.
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Post by WestRider on Nov 20, 2013 15:07:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure the Warbands really offer a whole lot to IG. For MEq Armies, they're great, because they can pick up dirt cheap Scoring Units, but they're in much the same functional space as a lot of IG Units for the most part. That said, a full Unit with something like 4-5 Crusaders, 4-5 DCA ( Note that, for the moment, they can still get any kind of Power Weapon, not just Swords Nevermind, they just got updated to be Swords only ), and 2-3 Priests (different ones can use different War Hymns, plus maybe some redundancy for when they fail their Ld Tests) could tag team pretty well with a Power Blob or work as a solid counter-Assault Unit for an Army that doesn't want to run a Power Blob.
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Post by caimheul on Nov 21, 2013 12:52:33 GMT -5
Luckily, the only REQUIRED unit from the Inquisition codex is an inquisitor. 55 points for prescience in a Guard army? Yes please!
The one thing that really appeals to me from warbands is the psybolt ammunition on their transport. Heavy Bolter Chimera with psybolts (+1 Str) sounds like it could be useful... too bad they can't transport veterans, just the BS 3 acolytes.
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Post by WestRider on Nov 21, 2013 15:42:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the Psymera. It's not bad, but giving up the utility and Mobility of the Multilaser/Heavy Flamer version for 3 most BS3 S6 Shots is a definite trade-off, not a straight upgrade.
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Post by caimheul on Nov 21, 2013 16:54:24 GMT -5
A S6 AP4 Heavy bolter is a minor upgrade on the Multilaser, especially against GEQ with carapace. I agree that the ML/HF version does have a bit more utility, much of which (IMO) can be reclaimed by sticking a 42 point three man squad of flamer armed acolytes in the Psymera. Not the BEST squad ever housed in a Chimera of any variety, but it does keep it relatively cheap (102 points between Psymera and flamer Acolytes), meaning I won't feel too bad about using it as cover for more expensive vehicles/squads.
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Post by WestRider on Nov 21, 2013 17:04:49 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, I'm not writing it off, I'm just unsure. Might have to try running a couple each way and see how they pan out.
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Post by yvain on Nov 21, 2013 17:08:20 GMT -5
I have been toying with a few ideas to boost my static gunline. Basically, it would be platoon gunline with two artillery pieces and some Raptors allied in with Vendettas and outflanking units for mobility. I am curious of all of your opinions on the three options.
Coteaz seems like a perfect choice. With 2 divinations, I can double prescience my artillery or use any of the other abilities which would be very helpful. I have been expecting you and spy network are awesome for safe guarding that gunline. Free hammer and bird. Kind of a no brainer in quality.
Inqusitor naked with prescience. Again no brainer for cheap, pretty solid choice. Maybe pyk grenades.
Inqusitor with prescience and conversion beamer. More expensive, but the weapon has synergy with the autocannons and adds some great long range firepower to my gunline.
I suppose the question boils down to is the CB worth it for 45 points? Is psy mastery 2 plus all those other sweet options worth 45 points? Seems like a yes the more I look at it, but what do you guys think?
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Post by yvain on Nov 21, 2013 17:23:26 GMT -5
A S6 AP4 Heavy bolter is a minor upgrade on the Multilaser, especially against GEQ with carapace. I agree that the ML/HF version does have a bit more utility, much of which (IMO) can be reclaimed by sticking a 42 point three man squad of flamer armed acolytes in the Psymera. Not the BEST squad ever housed in a Chimera of any variety, but it does keep it relatively cheap (102 points between Psymera and flamer Acolytes), meaning I won't feel too bad about using it as cover for more expensive vehicles/squads. I don't think its worth it because Strength 6 isn't that great in my opinion. The ML has the advantage of being free. Killing +4 is not that difficult. Most things die pretty easily to 5 Str (off the top of my head most +4 are T3 except scouts and some nid types) so you aren't really changing the target profile of the HB that much. Sure it is five points and won't kill you, but you are probably better off using that 5 points to upgrade another weapon to melta or plasma.
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Post by WestRider on Nov 22, 2013 1:37:05 GMT -5
Coteaz can still only Prescience one Unit per Turn, but Mastery Level 2 is pretty worthwhile, for the chance to pick up something like Perfect Timing or Forewarning as well as Prescience. Heck, I've even foregone Prescience in games when I rolled up both of those.
Plus, I've Been Expecting You in a Guard Unit with some real firepower has the potential to be hilarious. Certainly lets you push Drop Pods and stuff back in a nice big bubble away from your Artillery and such.
Conversion Beamer doesn't seem that great for 45 Points. You could almost pick up another Infantry Squad with a Missile Launcher for that, which is going to be about the same most of the time.
If you're expecting the Squad the Inquisitor is in to get into Assaults regularly, definitely go Xenos and pick up the Grenades. They're a great force multiplier for things like Guard Blobs.
The advantage of S6 on both guns on the Psymera is mostly against Vehicles. You've now got twice as many chances to Glance AV12, or Pen AV11. It's a relatively minor increase, but it's also a cheap upgrade. As I mentioned before, I think the real price is the Opportunity Cost of not taking a Heavy Flamer there.
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Post by caimheul on Nov 22, 2013 1:41:06 GMT -5
I don't think its worth it because Strength 6 isn't that great in my opinion. The ML has the advantage of being free. Killing +4 is not that difficult. Most things die pretty easily to 5 Str (off the top of my head most +4 are T3 except scouts and some nid types) so you aren't really changing the target profile of the HB that much. Sure it is five points and won't kill you, but you are probably better off using that 5 points to upgrade another weapon to melta or plasma. Fair enough, I mostly got wrapped up in the newness of the option, especially doubling the number of shots that might glance/pen side armour or that are more likely to wound a MC. The inclusion of side armour in the possible target list of the HB's is what caught my eye but to mange that they'd have to be moving, thereby limiting the number of effective shots. Probably only really worthwhile used as a pillbox and targeting MC... I'll have to experiment with it once I get my army up and running. Thank goodness for magnets! Only thing I don't really like about Coteaz is his warlord trait, which only comes into play when your opponent is fielding demons. I prefer the Ordo Xenos table personally. If you aren't planning on fielding the Inquisitor as your warlord, then no worries in that regard. I agree that Corteaz's special rules are likely relevant to protecting a gun line, but servo skulls can as well. They would prevent your opponent's infiltration units from setting up in certain areas, and limit his options for scout moves, while also limiting the distance your artillery will scatter within their bubbles. Coteaz's special rules aren't very effective against high mobility armies that zoom across the board rather than deep strike or outflank. They might not last more than a turn or two, but you should still have at least one casting of prescience a turn. Additionally, depending on your set-up it might not be too hard for you opponent to outflank or deep strike outside of Coteaz's bubble but still be able to hit your artillery, especially with measure any time in the current edition... Not saying it wouldn't be inconvenient, and might scare your opponent off deep striking anywhere nearby. I personally am not a huge fan of the Conversion beamer, as it strikes me as pretty expensive, and it wants to be firing at further ranges than the rest of the blob squad... Which is fine for softening up units as they approach, but once they get into rapid fire range, there may be something you want to fire the template at more than whatever your blob is FRFSRFing. If they somehow had split fire, well, that would be a different story.
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Post by WestRider on Nov 22, 2013 12:04:05 GMT -5
The Liber Heresius might combo well with a Conversion Beamer then, actually. It'll let you get Split Fire for one Turn, and then later on you can pick up Counter-Attack or Hatred for a Turn if it looks like you're going to get Charged. And Scout if you want to reposition a bit before the Game starts, could be very useful in Vanguard Strike, or against some Tau builds.
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