Post by yvain on Dec 15, 2013 10:00:40 GMT -5
Catachans and Raptor Allies verse Orks
1850
His list: (some details forgotten)
Warboss with PK
Big Mek with Custom Force Field
Around 10 Nobs in Battlewagon with a few Klaws and Choppas (Warboss attacked)
19 Boys and a Nob in Battlewagon with Power Klaw
Dakka Jet
3 Deffkoptas
Stompa (Big Mek inside)
My List:
CCS w/4 Grenade Launchers, Astropath, Master of Ordnance
Marbo
5 Ratlings
5 Stormtroopers with 2 Meltaguns
Inf Sqd with Flamer and Autocannon x 3
PCS with 4 Flamer
Sabre Platform with Lascannon x3 (models)
Mortar Team
Veteran Squad Demolitions and 3 Meltaguns with Shotguns
Vendetta (Demo vets mounted in)
Vulture Gunship
Manticore
Basilisk
Xeno Inquisitor with Psy 1
Space Marine Allies with Raptor Chapter Tactics (Raven Guard Scout and turn bolters to heavy 1 rending)
Librarian with Psy 2
5 Tactical Squad with Missile Launcher
5 Devastators with 2 Lascannons
We played ultimate linebreaker an escalation mission. Basically, you score by having any unit in the enemies deployment zone at the end of the game. Except the Lord of War unit which scores two points every turn it is in the enemy zone. He won first turn. We both rolled on Strategic trait tree. He got one, which gave everything stealth and move through cover in ruins. They were all over the board.
I got 5, which made him minus 1 to his reserve rolls
Deployment:
The board was split up long ways with 24 inch zones on each side. There was a good size piece of ruin everywhere on the table with about nine of them in total. On my side there was a pretty big cathedral building he was working on. It had a courtyard inside and no front facing windows to shoot from. Luckily no roof so perfect place to hide inside. He placed his battlewagons as far up as possible behind some cover with the Stompa in between. The Koptas hidden in the back. I split all my units up. Deployed my Manticore and Basilisk behind the Cathedral with the inquisitor hiding between to give Prescience to whoever needed it most. I dropped the Devs right next to the Manticore hiding behind the ruin wall that has LOS. I put two platforms on the the top floor of a building ruins on both sides of the cathedral. I placed my CCS ground floor on the left on and a squad on the ground floor of the right one. I lined up two squads behind a +5 cover stone wall in front of the building. Inside the Cathedral, I placed mortars, PCS, and Librarian. The Cathedral was very big so I was forced to move up pretty far.
I rolled Invisibility and Psychic shriek on the librarian. At this point we remembered about Night Fighting and rolled and it was on. My only search lights would be too far away to do anything.
I then rolled to steal and made a 6. Praise the Emperor!
Turn 1 Catachans:
I fired everything I could and took a single wound of the Stompa. Screw night fighting!
Turn 1 Orks:
Everything moved up, and he drove his wagons right into the ruins. He is already in my face. Combined his rules gave his wagons +3 cover saves post night fighting. He did some shooting at my CCS and Squads. Invisibility and night fighting saved me. I only lost 2 guardsmen. Big Mek repairs Stompa.
Turn 2 Guard:
Astropath gets Vulture, Vendetta, and Ratlings in. I fly the Vulture in between the CCS ruin and the cathedral and the Vendetta on the other side of the cathedral between another ruin filled with a squad plus sabre. Ratlings come in in the back of the map. to hide in ruins to score late game and shoot some boys. I fail to get anything else in. We had an argument about weather Sabre can outflank. Is outflank a move or deployment was the questions, but I recall reading that it can. We rolled a dice for it and deployed it as if it did not outflank. It ended up behind the CCS in a ruin.
I target the Wagons. Manticore takes down one. Mortars, Ratlings, and a Squad drop the boys that climb out to down to 5 models. Vendetta immoblizes the Nob Wagon. Sabre all whiff. Vulture destroys the Koptas. Sabres hit and bounce off. Lascannon marines glance the Stompa
Turn 2 Orks:
His Dakkajet comes in, so much for my warlord trait. I shoot one sabre at it and luckily manage to stun it. (Did not know that you can stun fliers) So I don't shoot the others at it. He mistakenly targets my CCS and thanks to invisibility and the ruins, I only lose two men. It takes a leadership test, but fails. Luckily it runs only a few inches. He also wounds a sabre down to one wound. His Supa Gatler manages to drop the Vendetta down to one wound, but luckily it survives. His grots repair the immobilized wagon and he decides to have his guys stay inside. Stompa and his boys squad charge a squad and kill all but one. I roll for leadership and the one guy gets a one and two. (it would have been hilarious if a single guardsman tied up the Stompa). He runs and is not swept.
Turn 3 Guard:
Marbo, Tactical Marines, and Stormtroopers come in. Tactical Marines join the Ratlings. I put Marbo behind the ruins to throw demo charge at the Nobs when they come out. Stormtroopers deep strike 10 inches into a ruin, but reroll a hit right behind the Stompa (I love Stormtroopers). CCS rallies. They order the single guardsman to rally, but fail the test. He only runs three more inches. I forget to order fire on my target. I move the Vendetta up and decide to get out convinced that the bird will be destroyed. I get it within an inch of the wagon and grav chute directly underneath. I roll a hit. Vulture moves past Stompa and aims at the Dakkajet destroying it with Punisher Cannons. PCS moves down to flame the boys squad. Invisibilty on CCS again. Shooting starts. I fire two sabres, a Manticore, a Basilisk, Marbo's charge, and a Vendetta at the Nob Wagon and I only do two hull points and immobilize it again. PCS BBQs remaining boys. Last sabre takes a wound off the Stompa. Tactical Marines snap shot a Krak missile and score a glance on the Stompa. Lascannon Marines do the same. Stormtroopers hit with a single melta, but cause an explosion for 3 hull points. Stompa is down to 5 points. Melta Vets miss their shot.
Turn 3 Orks:
He moves his Stompa up and does some shooting. He kills a few devastators (one lascannon remains) and his cannons fail to get the CCS or a sabre thanks to cover saves. He gets his nobs out and charge the Vets and the infantry squad next to them. I score a few hits. He wipes the Veterans and the forces the 4 remaining squad members to run.
He makes two blunders here. He charges the PCS, which is no threat to him instead of the Sabre or the CCS in the ruin. True he might have missed that charge it would have been ten inches, but the PCS was basically useless for the game now. They wipe and a Strength D Mega Chompa crushes the PC. He then makes a second blunder electing to consolidate towards the sabre and CCS, which leaves him 6 inch range of one of the Stormtroopers. Big Mek repairs one hull point on the Stompa.
He scores two victory points for having his lord of war in my deployment zone.
Turn 4 Guard:
I put Marbo in melta bomb range of the Invincible Wagon. Vulture moves back towards my zone to aim at the nobs. Stormtroopers chase the Stompa. Vendetta does the same. I rally the fleeing squad. One man from other squad runs a few more inches, but is still in! I can't reach him with the order any more, but it is the principle of the thing. Vendetta point blanks the Stompa. Scores an explosion hit and a glance it loses 4 hull points. Stormtrooper meltas make two more ending the threat. Vulture and lasguns plus flamer from the remaining squad wipe out the Nob squad and the boss. Marbo moves up to melta bomb the Battlewagon finally ending its life and tabling my opponent.
AAR Thoughts:
So I made this list knowing I was going to fight a Lord of War, however it barely differs from my regular list. The raptor tactics difference did not come into play once. And really the Sabres did not do a lot. The Vulture as usual was awesome, but verse a rocket pod Valkyrie that would be cheaper and possibly have melta vets inside I think it evens out. So while I used some quality FW units I don't think I upset the balance of what a regular game would look like.
The one exception was the one sabre intercept I made. Had the Dakka jet been able to shoot it might have killed my Vendetta. But in that scenario, I would have had a Valkyrie, which more Vets inside so it might have just hastened the demise of the Stompa.
I think he made the mistake of taking two battlewagons. eating up points. He should have gone with more boys and trucks. Having played me before, my friends are afraid of my artillery so that probably influenced that decision. My buddy thinks the Stompa is not very good. I think it excels at killing big units or models and as guard all my stuff is numerous low point stuff he is at a disadvantage thank if I had a different list type. Big Mek and Stompa was scary. He made a lot of cover saves on that unit and really had he been a little smarter with it at the end, it might have made it very difficult for me to continue hurting him.
Warlord traits for lord of war are pretty useless for guard. Being able to retain the first turn is very important. Coteaz might be almost required especially since he is good anyway. I rolled invisibility on the libby, which was also clutch. Best non-divination power in my opinion. And prescience on Manticores is like the best weapon we have.
Verses non D weapon lords of war, the secret is just cover saves and not committing to super unis. Orks miss a lot, but really how much worse would a Baneblade or something similar have been. They are tough, but smart tactics would win the day. I am quite convinced I wouldn't need the sabres to win. The Vulture was just included because Punisher cannons are super fun. I think a Valkyrie with melta Veterans or another Vendetta would have done the job and maybe just as well.
Verse D-weapons looking at the others I think we are still mostly okay. Most of these LOW only have the one D-weapon. Really the Vulcan Mega Bolter tank is more of a threat. Or the Harridin bio cannons.
Verse the super heavy flyers, they may actually be a bigger problem. They all have a lot of strong weapons so bringing a lot of your own fliers is not really a solution. Lots of AA is not something that is really common.
Verse the Revenant just thank you opponent for telling your up front he is a huge douche so you don't have to play or talk to him any more.
That is it, hopefully it was informative as well as interesting.
1850
His list: (some details forgotten)
Warboss with PK
Big Mek with Custom Force Field
Around 10 Nobs in Battlewagon with a few Klaws and Choppas (Warboss attacked)
19 Boys and a Nob in Battlewagon with Power Klaw
Dakka Jet
3 Deffkoptas
Stompa (Big Mek inside)
My List:
CCS w/4 Grenade Launchers, Astropath, Master of Ordnance
Marbo
5 Ratlings
5 Stormtroopers with 2 Meltaguns
Inf Sqd with Flamer and Autocannon x 3
PCS with 4 Flamer
Sabre Platform with Lascannon x3 (models)
Mortar Team
Veteran Squad Demolitions and 3 Meltaguns with Shotguns
Vendetta (Demo vets mounted in)
Vulture Gunship
Manticore
Basilisk
Xeno Inquisitor with Psy 1
Space Marine Allies with Raptor Chapter Tactics (Raven Guard Scout and turn bolters to heavy 1 rending)
Librarian with Psy 2
5 Tactical Squad with Missile Launcher
5 Devastators with 2 Lascannons
We played ultimate linebreaker an escalation mission. Basically, you score by having any unit in the enemies deployment zone at the end of the game. Except the Lord of War unit which scores two points every turn it is in the enemy zone. He won first turn. We both rolled on Strategic trait tree. He got one, which gave everything stealth and move through cover in ruins. They were all over the board.
I got 5, which made him minus 1 to his reserve rolls
Deployment:
The board was split up long ways with 24 inch zones on each side. There was a good size piece of ruin everywhere on the table with about nine of them in total. On my side there was a pretty big cathedral building he was working on. It had a courtyard inside and no front facing windows to shoot from. Luckily no roof so perfect place to hide inside. He placed his battlewagons as far up as possible behind some cover with the Stompa in between. The Koptas hidden in the back. I split all my units up. Deployed my Manticore and Basilisk behind the Cathedral with the inquisitor hiding between to give Prescience to whoever needed it most. I dropped the Devs right next to the Manticore hiding behind the ruin wall that has LOS. I put two platforms on the the top floor of a building ruins on both sides of the cathedral. I placed my CCS ground floor on the left on and a squad on the ground floor of the right one. I lined up two squads behind a +5 cover stone wall in front of the building. Inside the Cathedral, I placed mortars, PCS, and Librarian. The Cathedral was very big so I was forced to move up pretty far.
I rolled Invisibility and Psychic shriek on the librarian. At this point we remembered about Night Fighting and rolled and it was on. My only search lights would be too far away to do anything.
I then rolled to steal and made a 6. Praise the Emperor!
Turn 1 Catachans:
I fired everything I could and took a single wound of the Stompa. Screw night fighting!
Turn 1 Orks:
Everything moved up, and he drove his wagons right into the ruins. He is already in my face. Combined his rules gave his wagons +3 cover saves post night fighting. He did some shooting at my CCS and Squads. Invisibility and night fighting saved me. I only lost 2 guardsmen. Big Mek repairs Stompa.
Turn 2 Guard:
Astropath gets Vulture, Vendetta, and Ratlings in. I fly the Vulture in between the CCS ruin and the cathedral and the Vendetta on the other side of the cathedral between another ruin filled with a squad plus sabre. Ratlings come in in the back of the map. to hide in ruins to score late game and shoot some boys. I fail to get anything else in. We had an argument about weather Sabre can outflank. Is outflank a move or deployment was the questions, but I recall reading that it can. We rolled a dice for it and deployed it as if it did not outflank. It ended up behind the CCS in a ruin.
I target the Wagons. Manticore takes down one. Mortars, Ratlings, and a Squad drop the boys that climb out to down to 5 models. Vendetta immoblizes the Nob Wagon. Sabre all whiff. Vulture destroys the Koptas. Sabres hit and bounce off. Lascannon marines glance the Stompa
Turn 2 Orks:
His Dakkajet comes in, so much for my warlord trait. I shoot one sabre at it and luckily manage to stun it. (Did not know that you can stun fliers) So I don't shoot the others at it. He mistakenly targets my CCS and thanks to invisibility and the ruins, I only lose two men. It takes a leadership test, but fails. Luckily it runs only a few inches. He also wounds a sabre down to one wound. His Supa Gatler manages to drop the Vendetta down to one wound, but luckily it survives. His grots repair the immobilized wagon and he decides to have his guys stay inside. Stompa and his boys squad charge a squad and kill all but one. I roll for leadership and the one guy gets a one and two. (it would have been hilarious if a single guardsman tied up the Stompa). He runs and is not swept.
Turn 3 Guard:
Marbo, Tactical Marines, and Stormtroopers come in. Tactical Marines join the Ratlings. I put Marbo behind the ruins to throw demo charge at the Nobs when they come out. Stormtroopers deep strike 10 inches into a ruin, but reroll a hit right behind the Stompa (I love Stormtroopers). CCS rallies. They order the single guardsman to rally, but fail the test. He only runs three more inches. I forget to order fire on my target. I move the Vendetta up and decide to get out convinced that the bird will be destroyed. I get it within an inch of the wagon and grav chute directly underneath. I roll a hit. Vulture moves past Stompa and aims at the Dakkajet destroying it with Punisher Cannons. PCS moves down to flame the boys squad. Invisibilty on CCS again. Shooting starts. I fire two sabres, a Manticore, a Basilisk, Marbo's charge, and a Vendetta at the Nob Wagon and I only do two hull points and immobilize it again. PCS BBQs remaining boys. Last sabre takes a wound off the Stompa. Tactical Marines snap shot a Krak missile and score a glance on the Stompa. Lascannon Marines do the same. Stormtroopers hit with a single melta, but cause an explosion for 3 hull points. Stompa is down to 5 points. Melta Vets miss their shot.
Turn 3 Orks:
He moves his Stompa up and does some shooting. He kills a few devastators (one lascannon remains) and his cannons fail to get the CCS or a sabre thanks to cover saves. He gets his nobs out and charge the Vets and the infantry squad next to them. I score a few hits. He wipes the Veterans and the forces the 4 remaining squad members to run.
He makes two blunders here. He charges the PCS, which is no threat to him instead of the Sabre or the CCS in the ruin. True he might have missed that charge it would have been ten inches, but the PCS was basically useless for the game now. They wipe and a Strength D Mega Chompa crushes the PC. He then makes a second blunder electing to consolidate towards the sabre and CCS, which leaves him 6 inch range of one of the Stormtroopers. Big Mek repairs one hull point on the Stompa.
He scores two victory points for having his lord of war in my deployment zone.
Turn 4 Guard:
I put Marbo in melta bomb range of the Invincible Wagon. Vulture moves back towards my zone to aim at the nobs. Stormtroopers chase the Stompa. Vendetta does the same. I rally the fleeing squad. One man from other squad runs a few more inches, but is still in! I can't reach him with the order any more, but it is the principle of the thing. Vendetta point blanks the Stompa. Scores an explosion hit and a glance it loses 4 hull points. Stormtrooper meltas make two more ending the threat. Vulture and lasguns plus flamer from the remaining squad wipe out the Nob squad and the boss. Marbo moves up to melta bomb the Battlewagon finally ending its life and tabling my opponent.
AAR Thoughts:
So I made this list knowing I was going to fight a Lord of War, however it barely differs from my regular list. The raptor tactics difference did not come into play once. And really the Sabres did not do a lot. The Vulture as usual was awesome, but verse a rocket pod Valkyrie that would be cheaper and possibly have melta vets inside I think it evens out. So while I used some quality FW units I don't think I upset the balance of what a regular game would look like.
The one exception was the one sabre intercept I made. Had the Dakka jet been able to shoot it might have killed my Vendetta. But in that scenario, I would have had a Valkyrie, which more Vets inside so it might have just hastened the demise of the Stompa.
I think he made the mistake of taking two battlewagons. eating up points. He should have gone with more boys and trucks. Having played me before, my friends are afraid of my artillery so that probably influenced that decision. My buddy thinks the Stompa is not very good. I think it excels at killing big units or models and as guard all my stuff is numerous low point stuff he is at a disadvantage thank if I had a different list type. Big Mek and Stompa was scary. He made a lot of cover saves on that unit and really had he been a little smarter with it at the end, it might have made it very difficult for me to continue hurting him.
Warlord traits for lord of war are pretty useless for guard. Being able to retain the first turn is very important. Coteaz might be almost required especially since he is good anyway. I rolled invisibility on the libby, which was also clutch. Best non-divination power in my opinion. And prescience on Manticores is like the best weapon we have.
Verses non D weapon lords of war, the secret is just cover saves and not committing to super unis. Orks miss a lot, but really how much worse would a Baneblade or something similar have been. They are tough, but smart tactics would win the day. I am quite convinced I wouldn't need the sabres to win. The Vulture was just included because Punisher cannons are super fun. I think a Valkyrie with melta Veterans or another Vendetta would have done the job and maybe just as well.
Verse D-weapons looking at the others I think we are still mostly okay. Most of these LOW only have the one D-weapon. Really the Vulcan Mega Bolter tank is more of a threat. Or the Harridin bio cannons.
Verse the super heavy flyers, they may actually be a bigger problem. They all have a lot of strong weapons so bringing a lot of your own fliers is not really a solution. Lots of AA is not something that is really common.
Verse the Revenant just thank you opponent for telling your up front he is a huge douche so you don't have to play or talk to him any more.
That is it, hopefully it was informative as well as interesting.
