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Post by glutebite on Apr 14, 2014 22:49:11 GMT -5
So I need some help understanding the Chimera change (Beside point change)
As a default it would have a Turret Multi-laser, Hull heavy bolter and 2 Lasgun Arrays. Lets say I put in a Vet squad with Sgt, 2 Plasma and 7 Lasguns.
So if I move the Chimera 6" it can fire:
1. Multi-laser at BS3 at target 'A' 2. Heavy bolter with snap only since it moved and at target 'A'. 3. Both Lasgun Arrays at BS3. Left array (3 shots) at target 'B'. Right array (3 shots) at target 'C'. 4. 2 Plasma Vets at BS4 from the top hatch and target 'D'.
Is that the right interpretation if the Chimera moves and assuming each weapons line of sight is good to a target.
Did I screw up or miss something???
Thanks
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 15, 2014 0:48:53 GMT -5
Left and right array need to target the same unit. Other than that, it seems about right.
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Post by gamma016 on Apr 15, 2014 4:07:56 GMT -5
No, you are correct. The las arrays can shoot at different targets so long as all the las guns in one array fire at the same target.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 15, 2014 11:29:23 GMT -5
However, since it's one unit firing them, that unit cannot split its fire unless it has the Split Fire USR.
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Post by glutebite on Apr 15, 2014 11:52:03 GMT -5
Julian,
The new codex (pg 40) - "Lastly, each array may shoot at a different target to the Chimera's other weaponry, though all lasguns in the same array must shoot at the same target."
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 16, 2014 1:26:03 GMT -5
Julian, The new codex (pg 40) - "Lastly, each array may shoot at a different target to the Chimera's other weaponry, though all lasguns in the same array must shoot at the same target." That line states that although the Lasgun Array is part of the Chimera, it is allowed to fire at a different target from the Chimera, not the other weapons the squad inside is firing. Since a squad can only fire at one target per Shooting phase, and it is stated that models inside the Chimera fire the Lasgun Arrays, and that there is nothing in the Lasgun Arrays rules that allow otherwise, both Lasgun Arrays must fire at the same target.
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Post by gamma016 on Apr 16, 2014 5:31:46 GMT -5
Julian, The new codex (pg 40) - "Lastly, each array may shoot at a different target to the Chimera's other weaponry, though all lasguns in the same array must shoot at the same target." That line states that although the Lasgun Array is part of the Chimera, it is allowed to fire at a different target from the Chimera, not the other weapons the squad inside is firing. Since a squad can only fire at one target per Shooting phase, and it is stated that models inside the Chimera fire the Lasgun Arrays, and that there is nothing in the Lasgun Arrays rules that allow otherwise, both Lasgun Arrays must fire at the same target. But the lasgun arrays are considered chimera weapons, that's why they are fired at the chimera's BS and not the contents. If it counted as bein fired by the contents it would not need to mention the chimera's weapons as the contents can fire at a different target than the transport.
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Post by Comrade on Apr 16, 2014 5:54:33 GMT -5
The chimera has (2) separate lasgun arrays. Each array can fire at a separate target then the chimera.
Its under Lasgun arrays Pg 79-80 Astra Mlitarum codex.
It specifically states Pg80 "Each array may shoot at a different target to the chimeras other weaponry, though all lasguns in the SAME array must shoot at the same target"
Pg 79: "The Chimera has 2 SEPARATE arrays"
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 16, 2014 10:48:59 GMT -5
Yes, but it's not the Chimera that's firing them, it's the unit inside, which cannot split its fire unless there are special rules to the contrary, which the Lasgun Array rules do not provide.
Look, I would love nothing more than to agree with you on this subject, but the fact of the matter is that this will most likely be the argument that our opponents will make until it is FAQed, and I will be surprised if the FAQ doesn't agree with them on the subject.
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Post by howscat on Apr 16, 2014 13:21:34 GMT -5
Just handle the argument the way I handle them. Take your pants off and start throwing the poo until you both decide to roll dice to decide who is right.
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Post by emptyhat on Apr 16, 2014 18:40:25 GMT -5
So either the lasgun arrays are intended to be a bonus feature of the chimera that allow you to fire at two separate targets while the chimera weapons fire on a third and the models using the firepoints shoot at a fourth.
Or they are just fire points with additional restrictions and the chimera can target one unit while the squad can fire a lasgun array at one target with the models using the top hatch contributing firepower to that target as well.
The first one seems pretty generous, but then again three lasgun shots are pretty irrelevant. The second option seems overly restrictive and you can never use both arrays unless the enemy has generously surrounded you.
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Post by Purple Dice on Apr 28, 2014 8:14:31 GMT -5
I agree with the more numerous argument that supports the Lasgun Arrays firing at separate targets despite there being one unit in the Chimera.
I do so because if we follow your logic Julian, that the unit inside can only fire at one target and so the Lasgun Arrays can only fire at one target, then there is no point for the rule to state that the arrays can fire at separate targets. You would need one (debatable) or more independent characters mounted to be allowed to fire the second array and it seems highly unlikely that GW would put a rule like that in, they would just say the array can fire at only one target. Remember too, it's three lasguns at BS 3, this rule cannot be called overpowered.
I would also remind everyone that codexes always overrule the BRB when one seems to contradict the other. I would say that the lasgun array contradicts the rule saying a sqd must fire at the same target and so therefore the lasgun array rule would take prevalence.
- Dice
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Post by yvain on Apr 28, 2014 10:53:30 GMT -5
The way I read it, you can essentially fire at 4 separate targets like glute stated.
My understanding is that within each array is 3 lasguns. So that means each array can also rapid fire at half range. What would the arc of fire look like?
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Post by treadiculous on Apr 28, 2014 17:44:26 GMT -5
that ruling is weird.
the top hatch unit is not described in the ruling regarding Lasgun Array's, I would suspect the top hatch weapons would have to shoot at the same target as the rest of the unit (ie, the ones firing the lasgun array), however, since there are 2 array's and they would seem to be legally allowed to shoot different targets this is confusing.
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