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Post by andres on May 20, 2014 3:42:04 GMT -5
So I am slowly building my ig army and have all ready played a couple of battles . What I noticed is most of my likely opponents play with space marines (ultramarine dark angels etc ) since I was always interested in being close to the official story I am trying to figure out a plausible background for an imperial army that regularly fights against marines . I mean they are all supposed to be on the same side right ? I can understand an extraordinary incident misunderstanding might pit them against each other but what would it take to make them regular opponents. Any suggestions
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Post by BG. Foster on May 20, 2014 4:29:12 GMT -5
Renegade or mercenary guard are the most likely, they could also be a rogue traders private army.
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Post by andres on May 20, 2014 6:12:00 GMT -5
Like a lot the rogue trader notion (funny enough I learned about the concept 2 days ago )but in this case how do you explain commissars heavy artillery scions and other imperial units
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Post by ogguardsman on May 21, 2014 12:12:05 GMT -5
IG vs DA reminds me of a short fluff piece I read in WD back during the last DA release prior to 6E, I think it was 4E or maybe 5E I forget when the DA accessory sprue came out. Anyway, the fluff was a short description of the DA in a cityfight situation, specifically a squad of DA advancing to relieve a cut off IG detachment in danger of being overrun. On their way through the city the DA fight through some ambushes (I think they were fighting Chaos) and one of the Marines gets killed by a sniper. When the DA finally arrive at the IG detachment's position they find out it's an Ogryn Auxilia unit. The IG officer in charge of the detachment walks up to the Brother Sargeant to thank him and the DA gets indignant and says something like "Brother Whatishisname didn't die for this abhuman scum" and then shoots the Ogryn standing next to the IG officer and the DAs abruptly leave.
DAs have a reputation for being haughty and arrogant and SM in general tend to disregard IG chain of command and decorum. You could set up the fluff behind the fight as the DA taking violent exception to something the IG did and the IG responding in kind and things escalating to a point where the misunderstanding has led to a real battle. DA aren't going to admit wrongdoing or apologize and in the heat of battle everybody is going to shoot first and ask questions later so it's not really farfetched.
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Post by Kaikelx on May 21, 2014 15:22:27 GMT -5
Remember, Heresy is always the answer Just pretend your opponents are renegade marines, and your IG have an unfortunate reputation for taking down (or not dying as horribly) against renegade marines. Your opponents likely pretend your IG are traitor guard anyhow. Heck knowing 40k, those two don't even have to be mutually exclusive (see: Dark Crusade, Retribution, and Soulstorm)
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Post by jenburdoo on May 21, 2014 22:28:25 GMT -5
Regular opponents are unlikely -- Any IG regiment that is in action against any Marine chapter will be destroyed in fairly short order. It won't survive long again to go up against the same chapter in the future. Now if you assume that they commonly go up against many different regiments from the same world, that would work. This week, you play the 33rd Cadian. Next week it's the 17th Cadian. And through the vicissitudes of war, this Chapter keeps running up against Cadians... that just happen to be yours.
Other alternatives:
- The IG regiment is indentured to an Inquisitor with interests that coincide with or contradict those of the Marines. For example, he might be investigating the Fallen, and thus his troops constantly come up against the DA. - The IG regiment and the Marines (Ultras for choice) are actually good allies, and every battle is actually a bloodless training action. The Marines might even prefer your specific regt as OPFOR because they put up a fight better than other units who would revere the Astartes too much and fail to play their best. - Everyone could be on a planet in the Eye of Terror where time keeps resetting and there is literally eternal war.
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Post by dougeye on May 23, 2014 12:44:19 GMT -5
just pretend your guard are carrying out the orders of an inquisitor. then they can get away with anything lol maybe they are hunting fro relics which the opposing marine force are also hunting for and the inquisitor is suspicious of the marine force and rightly or wrongly suspects them of heresy.
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Post by Kaikelx on May 23, 2014 17:52:56 GMT -5
Keep in mind that tabletop is not a direct representation of fluff, otherwise player-led IG companies inflict very disproportionate amounts of damage to the other factions.
By my "regular opponents" theory, I meant to the suggest something similar to relationship the 1st Kronus had with the Blood Ravens. Although the 1st Kronus were eventually almost completely annihilated, they put up quite the fight before going down. Said fight was long and large enough to be noteworthy on a planetwide furball with 8 factions.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 24, 2014 21:46:40 GMT -5
They're DA.
They're secretive, awkward and desperate to hide the fact they have a serious heresy problem. More importantly, they're beakies, and a good Guard commander doesn't ever need an excuse to sock it to the tin soldier brigade. You do it because the Inquisitor ordered. You do it because they're trying to wipe out your regiment, because your regiment knows too much. You do it because they landed their stupid Thunderhawk on the Sergeant-Major's transport, and thus they must die.
YOU DO IT BECAUSE ASTARTES MUST DIE.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Sept 3, 2014 8:07:45 GMT -5
They're human(super human), that's generally reason enough. Think of politics, what drives two countries into conflict with each other, what makes tensions escalate? Historical examples are a nice place to start off, even current examples. Trade, tithes, past grievances, religious differences (even if they all worship the Emperor, they could dispute certain points or how they preach), miscommunication, heretical assumption. I'd pretty much guarantee that most Imperial vs Imperial conflicts boil down to miscommunication or heretical assumption.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 7, 2014 8:25:33 GMT -5
You don't need to assume anything when it comes to DA's being heretics. Just light 'em up with the AC's and write up the AAR with something something "The Fallen" something "heresy" something.
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Post by Casiarius on Dec 8, 2014 12:58:31 GMT -5
If you are fighting Dark Angels I'd say the simplest assumption would be that the Dark Angels suspect the Guard may know too much about the chapter's history of treason and heresey. Maybe an artifact of the fallen was discovered on their planet, or Cypher was spotted there. The Dark Angels are perfectly willing to kill loyal Imperial citizens to cover up their dirty laundry. What do you expect from so-called loyal astartes that co-habitate with xeno psyker midgets?
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 8, 2014 17:59:18 GMT -5
That they die just like any other.
Actually, Astartes death tolls are pretty reasonable vs Guard. If you pitch an elite strike force up against a non elite one which, you know, brought actual heavy weapons and numbers, it's gonna get ugly.
(Unless they're Royal Marines. But Astartes are kind of pussy compared to them)
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Dec 12, 2014 22:35:55 GMT -5
Imperial guard follow orders ... your men may believe they are fighting for the emperor but in reality your general was tempted by some daemon and your really fighting for chaos! which would be terrible, because im for the emprah all the way yo!!!! FMJ
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 13, 2014 19:33:21 GMT -5
DA being corrupt is more plausible. Guard have Commissars.
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 14, 2014 8:21:48 GMT -5
The old chapters are a law unto themselves. If smaller chapters tried half the stuff the DA got away with over the years, they would have been declared Excommincate Traitoris by the Inquisition.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 14, 2014 11:00:38 GMT -5
*notes to have Drang steal something from the DA*
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Post by Aeon on Dec 18, 2014 1:05:09 GMT -5
Because Dark Angels are jerks. Listen to RT (who now calls himself The Lightning). He has it spot on
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Dec 28, 2014 22:40:49 GMT -5
so one thing you can do, is have a choas model, that was captured by your army, so have him chained up, or something or in a cage with guards, and the dark angels want him ( becuase he is one of the fallen) but you have orders to protect him at all costs, so the dark angels try to capture and destroy your army so that their is no evidence of them fighting imperial units... ( make the model a objective marker or something) other obj. markers could be documents or random crap that belongs or has to do with the fallen, play with the idea a little to fight against other chapters pretend your fighting against chaos or soemething along the same line as above, guard getting screwed over for following orders and marines trying to get away with what they want, wouldnt work with the more strict marine armies like ultra marines fluff wise though... FMJ
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 10, 2015 15:03:23 GMT -5
Currently planning a game of Tomorrow's War in a fortnight's game. Theme: Mercenary Guard versus Space Wolves.
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Post by that1guy on Oct 9, 2015 13:59:16 GMT -5
Our Space Wolves player doesn't know it yet, but in our first match I'm going to deploy and declare the retreat turn 1. Better to be shot in the back then to explain to the Emperor why you died fighting his finest.
Quote Monty Python; "Run away! Run away!!"
Dark Angels I'd hold the line. Everything out of their mouth is a lie anyway. They are just as likely to hunt you down and exterminate you if they don't feel like leaving any witnesses to the heresy they'll be getting away with this time.
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Post by vulpine on Oct 9, 2015 14:09:25 GMT -5
Same side? Both love the Emperor, but both have there own agenda.
M35 backs up my argument.
The imperium was in civil war and for the most part the space marines don't care. Why would they, lords of terra arguing with eachouther over who should represent the imperium... Why should they care?
That caused a load of disruptive stuff.
But for 40k... Bet this 'kind of thing' happens a load.
Diffrence of agenda, Difference of belief... Why would Dark Angels blink an eye over whipping out a company of Guard to get what they, descended of THE god wants?
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