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Post by Aeon on Jul 4, 2014 14:50:48 GMT -5
I have used Scions on occassion, and I really really liked them back in 4th edition when they were cheaper. Even though the hellguns were only Ap5, the cost like 10 points a model back then, which could really save you a ton of points, while still giving you Ap5 lasguns and troops with carapace armor
I will get on vassal and go to my store and proxy some stormies in and see if I can't give you all some right proper advice on how to use them
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jul 17, 2014 17:31:13 GMT -5
There will be a temporary hiatus as Aeon summons the Machine God to un-bork his internet
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 17, 2014 20:09:25 GMT -5
Storm Scions: Or How I Lost All The Kasrkin And So Bribed A Ton of Blood Pact To Playact as Stormtroopers.
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Post by Aeon on Sept 5, 2014 4:31:19 GMT -5
I'm back!! The Machine God has been good to me. I shall continue this article when I'm not hyped up on caffein
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Post by treadiculous on Sept 29, 2014 5:17:03 GMT -5
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Anti Air options Guard have.
We have:
Hydra Flakk Tank: An Armoured, Mobile Anti-Air unit at very reasonable price.
Missile Launchers: For almost double the cost of the missile launcher you gain the ability to shoot at flyers (and missile launchers aren't cheap to start with)... however, you still have the ability to shoot tanks at normal ballistic skill so they are worth considering, or and you can fire blast at infantry if you really want. The cost of all this versatility is high and with guard (if not all 40k units) I feel it it is better to specialise in 1 role than try to cover 3.
Missile Launcher with Flakk in Heavy Weapon Squads, coming in quite a bit more expensive than a hydra for 3 models which can be instant killed these guys are fragile, they benefit from having a CCS nearby which can give suitable orders like ignore cover (so no Jinking) or armourbane (which is handy vs Imperial AV12 flyers), however, as 3 missile launchers will benefit it does make good odds for putting out some hurt. They will be high priority for the enemy though.
Missile Launchers with Flakk in Command Squads, a questionable choice for the reasons The Aeon describes earlier, A CCS is a small squad and a heavy weapon makes it smaller, the BS4 will be handy but ties your CCS to a static role.
Missile Launchers with Flakk in Veteran Squads, A bit better in some sense's as there are more wounds to go round, however I don't see Vet's as a particularly static unit, so unless the plan is to race them onto an objective and then defend it from a static position this seems a lot to spend on some opportunistic shots.
Missile Launchers with Flakk in Platoon Command Squads, BS3, few wounds, no.
Missile Launchers with Flakk in Platoon Squads, BS3 but... you can have a gunline blob of 50 men.. that's 5 missile launchers receiving 1 order. I've run squads like this and can say the power in 5 missiles + orders is high. Worth considering if you are gun-lining. (However, 7th ed encourages smaller units of troops moving to claim objectives, so depending on the game size this may not be so viable).
Ageis Defence Line with Quad Gun: (is this legal now?.. is it a stronghold? it's not in the basic rule book...) This gives you a decent cover save where you want and access to a gun that should seriously hurt if not kill a flyer in a turn. It doesn't include the cost of the crew, though if you are running gunline infantry there is probably a few guardsmen who'd like to trade their lasgun for a four barreled autocannon. And it is (well, it was) only a little more expensive than the hydra.
There are also Sabre Gun Platforms if you can find the rules and points somewhere, these are fairly cheap (slightly more points than an ageis + quad cannon for 2 platforms with twin linked autocannons, or another way to look at them is that 3 of them with autocannon cost the same as 3 HWS of missile launchers with Flakk), they count as artillery and are an option for HWS in infantry platoons. These can be upgraded to lascannon, heavy bolter or quad autocannon. If your opponent will let you field them then these seem really good value.
To me there are 4 strong contenders and they score in this order: the hydra, the sabre's, the ageis (if you want a barricade) and finally the 3 Missile Launchers.
As I don't have the first 3 and love my missile launchers I'll be trialing a pair of the last option, probably teamed up with a static CCS with MoO.
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Post by merc on Sept 30, 2014 14:25:26 GMT -5
This is phenomenal! Very much needed as I get back into 40k having not been active since 4th edition. Is there any chance of someone making a 1500 point list utilizing the Tank Commander option with Pask, a few nice infantry blobs with some veterans for me to give a run through and put a shopping list together? I would really appreciate it! Thanks in advance!
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Post by cheminhaler on Oct 21, 2014 14:37:53 GMT -5
This is phenomenal! Very much needed as I get back into 40k having not been active since 4th edition. Is there any chance of someone making a 1500 point list utilizing the Tank Commander option with Pask, a few nice infantry blobs with some veterans for me to give a run through and put a shopping list together? I would really appreciate it! Thanks in advance! Why not? This was my first stab at writing a guard list for quite a while. P.s. I play marines so it's not going to be an optimum netlist or whatever. MERCS' Guard Army - 1500 points HQ - tank commander Tank commander - Pask upgrade, Leman Russ exterminator - lascannon, multimelta sponsons 2nd tank - Leman Russ exterminator - lascannon, multimelta sponsons - 390 Troops - Infantry Platoon Platoon command squad - flamers x4 Infantry squad - plasma gun, missile launcher - flakk Infantry squad - plasma gun, missile launcher - flakk Infantry squad - plasma gun, missile launcher - flakk Infantry squad - plasma gun, missile launcher - flakk Infantry squad - plasma gun, missile launcher - flakk HQ - no slot- Commissar - bolt pistol, close combat weapon - 525 Troops - vets Veteran squad - plasma gun, lascannon Chimera - multilaser, heavy flamer - 160 Heavy Support Basilisk - ? Heavy Support Leman Russ - battlecannon, hull heavy bolter - ? Heavy Support Leman Russ - battlecannon, hull heavy bolter - ? ______ 1500 Shopping list : 66 guard infantry, 4 leman russes, 1 basilisk, 1 chimera
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Post by Julian Sharps on Oct 21, 2014 23:52:27 GMT -5
Pask is actually best in either a Vanquisher or Punisher. We've covered this in the IGMB Tactica Imperialis thread, located in the IG General section.
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Post by cheminhaler on Oct 22, 2014 7:37:03 GMT -5
If I were facing Eldar I'd rather have the Exterminator.
Playing lengthways I've found the Punisher is too short ranged. Against Orks its great, however. I've never tried using a Vanquisher because I hate the single shot main gun.
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Post by Aeon on Dec 14, 2014 1:03:45 GMT -5
Finally, FINALLY found the motivation to continue this thread
Very sorry for delays. I have added advice for 2 more tanks after a lot of play testing and learning the ropes of 7th edition. I have been crushing the opposition at my local store for the most part.
I have switched to playing grey knights but I ally my guard in to give me numbers and better tank killing options
I can write you a mech list, although it will include flyers because hydras are a waste (and I will explain why when I write about them later)
H.Q Pask Punisher w. Heavy bolter sponsons Dozer blades and fire barrels 245
Squadron: 2x Exterminators w. Dozer blades and heavy bolter sponsons 160 each (320 total)
Troops: Veteran squad in chimera w/ dozer blades, 2 melta guns, heavy flamer 160 (3 identical squads, 480 total)
Fast attack: Vendetta gunship No upgrades, will not post points
Heavy support: Manticore Won't post points
Primaris psyker x3 Won't post points
Total: 1500
Your tanks provide wicked amounts of anti infantry fire power, and Pask allows them to split fire in case you are threatened by multiple enemy units
Your 30 infantrymen are highly geared towards tank hunting, and they have the heavy flamer to provide great over watch damage and report to killing infantry if you manage to bust all their tanks. Meltas also come in handy for TEQ killing
The vendetta is there to pop other flyers and harass hard targets on the ground. I haven't covered them in this guide yet but they are practically an auto include for imperial guard
The psyker a are also great to Have in every army because they have such great buffs. You'll want both to have prescience (the science that comes before the SCIENCE!)
1 psyker will hang back with your manticore and give it prescience, essentially giving your 4 strength 10 missiles twin linked so you can re roll your scatter die. And the other 2 psyker swill mount up with 2 of your veteran squads to give them prescience, so you will have 4 twin linked melta guns in your army
I think this list is close to being an all comers list. Expanding to 1850 points, I would add in a mechanized command squad and give it, plus all 3 veteran squads vox casters, so you can give orders reliably, and use the order that gives ignore cover for using those psychically twin linked meltas on entrenched vehicles or H.Qs, or even tank hunters, if you can't get close enough to use the melta at 6"....or you're just really sick and twisted and want to make your opponent cry
Furthermore, I would put 5 scions in that vendetta. When it gets closer to the end of the game, fly them over to your opponents side of the board and drop them off in cover. Bazinga, you have instantly and almost assuredly secured yourself a victory point for linen breaker, without having to rely on crawling a chimera ll the way across the field
Any left over points can go towards advisors such as an officer of the fleet to help deny your enemies their reserves and get your vendetta in there faster, and maybe an astropath for another warp charge to ensure you get prescience off and can deny annoying nutse, like gate of infinity and invisibility
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