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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 2, 2014 20:31:32 GMT -5
I've been modelling for a few years and I'm just starting to want to get into the game. I am reading the codex and rulebook at the same time and it is kind of daunting Basically, I'm confused on how to build squads, and what is necessary to make a legal army. My understanding is, that I would need the command squad box with the 5 special guys, and 2 squads of 10 guardsmen to make a legal army? I know that I would probably need a lot more to actually play a game, I just want to make sure that I would be on the right track with that. I had a friend give me about 18 Cadians and a few Catachans, so maybe I can convert the Catachans to make 20 Cadians and then just buy the command box. I also have a Commisar so maybe I can do something with that. Also, sorry for the really noob question, but I was just really confused by the wording in the book. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Paradill on Jul 2, 2014 21:06:27 GMT -5
A legal army must consist of one HQ unit (so in this instance, the five guys in the command squad box could be built into a company command squad which is one if our HQ options) and two troop units. In this instance the 20 guardsmen would have to be split in to two ten man veteran squads to allow for two separate troop choices.
Your list would look like this:
HQ
-Company Command Squad
Troops
-Veteran Squad
-Veteran Squad
Aeon has started a thread detailing each unit in our codex which I'm sure you will find very helpful, I will fetch you the link in a minute.
There are basically two standard troop choices for guard. Firstly,the veterans, which are ten man strong squads who are more accurate than standard guardsmen and have more weapon and specialisation options. The second option is the infantry platoon, which is one troop choice made up of multiple squads.
As a minimum a platoon must consist of one five man strong Platoon Command Squad (one junior officer and four guardsmen), and two infantry squads, each ten men strong but not as specialised or accurate as veterans. You can then add on more infantry squads, heavy weapon squads and special weapon teams to the platoon. These are all individual units that can move and act independently from one another, but only take up one troops choice in the force organisation chart (FOC).
You can also "blob" units from the same platoon together but I'll let you read through Aeons thread to fully understand that.
I hope that is of help and don't worry, there are no stupid or noobish questions here on the IGMB.
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Post by Paradill on Jul 2, 2014 21:09:19 GMT -5
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 2, 2014 21:36:55 GMT -5
Thanks, you've been really helpful. How do you think I should build the veterans?
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Post by Aeon on Jul 3, 2014 1:52:28 GMT -5
I explain the many different useful ways to build veterans in my thread you have there. Tons of options, from tank hunting veterans armed with melta guns, to infantry hunters armed with flamers, to terminator and enemy commander slayers armed with tons of plasma, to long range fire support and objective holders, with sniper rifles and an autocannon. Another option is to use them as Troops choice place holders, and just give them grenade launchers, keeping them cheap and not taking too many points away from the rest of your army Thanks for the shout out, Paradill. I appreciate seeing my work go to good use within the community *sips some amasec and lights up a lho*
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Post by Paradill on Jul 3, 2014 7:25:33 GMT -5
No worries Aeon, it's a good guide! dragoondirk: In regards to how you should build your vets, whilst you will probably find any build of veterans useful, I find it best to plan my army list out first then start collecting the minis. This gives your chance to plan what sort of army you want. There are several different types or styles of army: Air Cavalry: This usually consists of a lot of veterans with plasma or melta guns, mounted in Valkyries. They are fast and aggressive but have less "boots on the ground" than most lists and so can be more fragile and more difficult to play. Mechanised: These lists feature a transport (usually a chimera) for almost every unit. Veteran squads with plasma or melta again feature heavily. The basic idea is to rush forward in a ton of chimeras and give the enemy no quarter. Lots of the old "leaf lower" lists were built around the mechanised principal. Gun line: These tend to focus more in the infantry platoon than the veterans. They usually consist of a CCS and at least two platoons with lots of heavy weapons. These lists are usually supported by artillery, a couple of veteran squads in cover and snipers. All these lists can be supplemented by any of our so serous leman Russ variants and other support vehicles. My advice is to come up with the style you like, then write a list in line with that, choosing your loadout.
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Post by Aeon on Jul 3, 2014 11:07:31 GMT -5
I feel it must be said, that the "meta game" mindset for Guard right now is mechanized veterans with a heavy flamer and 2 melta guns. That's the tournament style list. If you want a themed army that you run just for fun and kicks, then steer clear of doing that because people will see you as a person who only likes to win just for the sake of winning
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Post by Paradill on Jul 3, 2014 11:22:41 GMT -5
I second Aeon.
Ironically mech vets are the least common of regiments fluff wise. I never built tournament style lists.. I just come up with a theme I like and build that. Guard are a beautifully diverse and powerful army, embrace it.
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 3, 2014 15:57:41 GMT -5
Well, I went out and bought the Cadian command box. Trying to think about how to build them. Its kinda rough trying to learn the rules and codex simultaneously. All I know is that I wanna use that awesome sniper rifle with cloak and that power fist hehehe. *evil grin*
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Post by Paradill on Jul 3, 2014 16:14:32 GMT -5
First and foremost I advocate building and painting whatever you want.
But if you want to make a cohesive list, make sure you give your units a single task to perform.
If we are talking about the command squad, then they can have a few functions, either as a bare bones order giving unit with no upgrades, as fire support with orders to dish out, plasma death squad mounted in a chimera, sniper team throwing orders out from cover etc.
To give them a role you need to make sure everyone is equipped to complement each other. A sniper rifle (cheap, long range, character assassinator) is the opposite of a power fist (expensive, close combat, probably only going to be effective for one turn, most likely less).
Pick what diet of job you want your CCS doing then think about how best to equip them. On the whole giving guard close combat upgrades is a folly, because by the time we're in close combat, we've already lost.
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 3, 2014 16:26:10 GMT -5
Youre right on both accounts. Maybe ill build the command squad with sniper or something and use the power fist for something else, maybe a different model that's just for show, or on one of my veteran sergeants if I can? I'd be willing to waste points to have that sweet bit somewhere in my army lol.
I am first and foremost a modeller and if I play it would be for fun, even if its not an efficient army though, I do want it to be legal.
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Post by Paradill on Jul 3, 2014 16:48:04 GMT -5
Yeah, and playable.
The power fist is an awesome bit. I used it on one of me veteran squads, the loadout was:
Veteran squad - veteran sergeant with power fist and shotgun - 3 veterans with melta guns - 6 veterans with shotguns.
They were mounted in a chimera and equipped for close range anti tank. The chimera gets them close, the melta guns pop vehicles and if there are any occupants, the shotguns kill them next turn. The power fist was I case anyone blew up the chimera and they were forced into the open. They also had demolitions doctrine for that sweet, sweet demo charge.
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Post by Aeon on Jul 3, 2014 20:02:27 GMT -5
Paradill's build is a pretty awesome build for anti tank vets. The power fist is pricy, and will only bring a guardsman to S6, however. My own personal use for the power fist would be more like this
Veteran squad - sergeant w/ power fist and laspistol (for the additional attack) - veteran with heavy flamer - 2x veterans with flamers - 6x veterans with shotguns
I'd put them in a chimera armed with 2 heavy flamers and just have them annihilate anything they come into contact with. The power fist would serve well if you get the chance to assault, or if you are assaulted yourself
For your company command squad, if you want a sniper rifle in it, I would form it like this
Company Command Squad - Officer w/ chainsword and laspistol or bolt pistol - vox caster operator - medic - veteran w/ sniper rifle - veteran w/ regimental standard
That is NOT however, how I would spend the points on them in an actual game, that's just what I like them to look like. I don't spend the points on a medic, because it's over priced, but, it's nice to have a guy that "looks" like a medic, because it makes sense fluff wise, and it gives you something more interesting to paint than just a regular guardsman
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Post by Paradill on Jul 3, 2014 20:41:58 GMT -5
A good set up if you like the sniper models is 3 snipers and a Vox with your company commander. Sitting in cover and sniping fools whilst barking orders to your infantry.
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 3, 2014 21:52:48 GMT -5
A good set up if you like the sniper models is 3 snipers and a Vox with your company commander. Sitting in cover and sniping fools whilst barking orders to your infantry. I only have one rifle. Maybe add some scopes to a lasgun to make more.
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 6, 2014 4:57:16 GMT -5
A good set up if you like the sniper models is 3 snipers and a Vox with your company commander. Sitting in cover and sniping fools whilst barking orders to your infantry. Im reading the codex it says two vets from the command squad can take a heavy weapon, and one can take a special weapon, so how could I get 3 snipers?
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Post by Paradill on Jul 6, 2014 5:37:48 GMT -5
I'm working from memory and an old codex but I was under the impression any of the veterans can take a special weapon. Hence the plasma death squad build for a CCS. Let me double check for you.
Edit: According to Aeons guide (which is accurate) four special weapons can be taken. It would limit the CCS usefulness and diversity to restrict them to one.
What is the exact wording in your codex?
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 6, 2014 14:22:54 GMT -5
• One Veteran may carry a vox-caster
• One other Veteran may replace his lasgun with a heavy flamer
• One other Veteran may carry a medi-pack
• One other Veteran may carry a regimental standard
• Two other Veterans may form a Veteran Weapons Team who must take one item from the Heavy Weapons list.
• Any remaining Veteran that has not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace his lasgun with one item from the Special Weapons list.
Ive never read such a confusing book in my life lol.
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Post by Paradill on Jul 6, 2014 16:00:55 GMT -5
Yeah, so if you don't upgrade any of the veterans with the above options, you can give them a special weapon. Don't worry, GW rules and logic will become second nature soon enough
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 6, 2014 16:22:53 GMT -5
Yeah, so if you don't upgrade any of the veterans with the above options, you can give them a special weapon. Don't worry, GW rules and logic will become second nature soon enough I think snipers count as heavy, but isnt a heavy weapons team like a mortar crew or something? I think I should head to the local GW shop maybe I can get some stuff cleared up hehe.
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Post by Paradill on Jul 6, 2014 16:29:04 GMT -5
Snipers are a special weapon.
Special weapons are: Plasma guns Melta guns Sniper rifles Grenade launchers Flamers
Heavy weapons are: Mortar Las cannon Missile launcher Autocannon
I'm more than happy to continue giving you assistance but if you don't believe my information is accurate then by all means go to your local Games Workshop.
You will get the hang of the rules.
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Post by dragoondirk on Jul 6, 2014 16:55:28 GMT -5
Snipers are a special weapon. Special weapons are: Plasma guns Melta guns Sniper rifles Grenade launchers Flamers Heavy weapons are: Mortar Las cannon Missile launcher Autocannon I'm more than happy to continue giving you assistance but if you don't believe my information is accurate then by all means go to your local Games Workshop. You will get the hang of the rules. Its not that I dont believe you. Im actually really happy how many posts im getting in my dumb noob thread its just that if we were in person this whole conversation would be so much easier hehe. I really do appreciate the help guys, thanks.
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Post by Phototoxin on Jul 12, 2014 7:51:08 GMT -5
Sniper rifles are 'heavy' in fire mode to represent how you needto remain still to fire at full accuracy. But they are not heavy weapons.
Also a powerfist and pistol does NOT give +1 attack as the powerfist is a 'specialist weapon'
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