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Post by treadiculous on Sept 30, 2014 6:59:28 GMT -5
7th has arrived and it has changed the way we play (again), which is a good thing as it keeps us on our toes.
I would like to discuss the area's I feel we need to be thinking when constructing our army lists and the way we are responding to the different threats and tasks we face on the battle field.
The tasks I see armies now facing are:
1) Objective Control (Getting to objectives quickly, and then holding them)
2) Anti Infantry
3) Anti Elite
4) Anti Tank / Monstrous Creature
5) Anti Air
6) Anti Psyker
7) Flank Security (Protection from deep strike, infiltrate and outflank)
8) Leadership (Ensuring your men do not run away)
A) What are the tactics you employ to deal with these tasks?
B) If you are playing small points games, where do you focus your attention?
C) Are hybrid's stronger than armies of single unit type (eg, infantry regiment, tank company?
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 30, 2014 14:28:28 GMT -5
It's impossible to cover all of those bases in a 1000 point list. 1500 maybe...
Librarians; ah yes. The only SM HQ without an invulnerable save (unless you give them that really expensive relic shield and then they die to Perils anyway...) and my only access to psychic hoods.
I'm on the fence about psykers. Level 1 psykers were quit meh in 6th and for my army I'm never going to get more than a level 1 and a level 2 psyker in the same list. Even by doing so I wouldn't be using my captain. Space Wolves, on the other hand, have their own Tempest magic, which I'm going to consider a bit more, especially seeing as they're allowed so many HQ slots in a standard FOC.
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Post by emptyhat on Sept 30, 2014 18:05:26 GMT -5
At least you get access to psychic hoods and invulnerable saves.
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Post by cheminhaler on Oct 1, 2014 14:02:01 GMT -5
Guard Primaris Psykers already have an invulnerable, in the form of a Refractor field.
The real genius of Marine librarians is the ability to mount them on a bike (T5) or give them a jump pack but the only way to get the models is with hefty conversions.
Out of all the small changes from 6th to 7th, the one I like the best is the rule that allows skimmers an invulnerable jink save if they're targetted in turn 1 when they haven't moved; at the cost of snap-shooting in their next shooting phase.
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Post by treadiculous on Oct 2, 2014 4:08:50 GMT -5
I think Empty was referring to the lack of invulnerable saves and psychic hoods available to orks. as for librarians with jump packs: (the librarian is hiding behind an R2 unit, but you should be able to see his jump pack).  I think it is possible to consider and cover all those factors in a 1000 point list: Objective Control - Loads of troops; so platoons are good here Infantry and Elite will both fall to massed lasguns; the platoons cover this already Anti - Tank / Monstrous Creature will require auto-cannons and lascannons; add these to the platoons (either as HWS or in the squads) Anti - Air... well, there are a few good choices, the hydra, sabre platform and ageis with quad gun are good deals. Missile Launchers with Flakk missiles also possible Anti - Psyker; the brotherhood ruling is quite handy and these are fairly cheap to field. Flank Security; as long as you keep the auto-cannon in the middle they should be able to turn on anything arriving from the flanks, or some flamer squads (either PCS or SWS) to hover round the flanks waiting to wall of death. Leadership; well, we have a commander with a bunch of orders, or commissar lord for more Ld; seems to cover this role well. CCS PCS + 4 Flamer + 2 squads PCS + 4 Flamer + 2 Squads HWS + 3 Autocannon HWS + 3 Autocannon HWS + 3 Lascannon HWS + 3 Lascannon Wychvane Brotherhood Ageis + Quad I make this around 800 ish |
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Post by emptyhat on Oct 2, 2014 10:26:24 GMT -5
Trying to cover all the bases in lower points games doesn't do much for you if your opponent weights it heavily in one direction and hopes that you don't weight your list in a similar but trumpy direction, rock-paper-scissors style.
Also, can you still get Aegis Quad when not playing Stronghold?
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Post by treadiculous on Oct 2, 2014 17:13:22 GMT -5
covering all bases isn't going to help if someone focus's on a specific unit type. It will help if they bring a mix and some units will be effective against targets beyond their initial role, (eg, HWS will still hurt things, psykers will be mischievous etc),
I don't know about ageis, though the cost of 2 sabre platforms is very similar if your opponent doesn't mind a bit of forgeworld. Or get a hydra for around the same cost.
If you swap the platoons for veteran squads you can pick up chimera which help with the objective grabbing - and can help shoot up outflankers with their turrets.
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