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Post by Kassill on Dec 30, 2014 13:20:42 GMT -5
So many many moons ago in the year 2006 I discovered Warhammer 40000. Started out reading "Death World" and buying the old metal Catach Snipers and some paint. Fell in love with the Catachan's and bought a bunch of the old metals, special weapons, heavy flamers, Straken and Marbo. Somewhere a long the way I got sidetracked with other armies and my Catachan cravings were set to the wayside. Well no longer! Going to start a Catachan project in the new year and want to brush up on my lore. Found my old copy of Death World and plan to reread it soon.
Now I come to you, what are (if any) the other Catachan novels? What is the best reading sources for Catachans? I have the 3rd and 4th edition Codexes currently.
Any and all help appreciated.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 30, 2014 18:07:56 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure there's a short story in the omnibus I have - though it may be the Death World story you are thinking of:
the catachan find some ork caves and a 'marboo' type character often appears in the narrative.
you may enjoy sifting references from the old codex and also the catachan codex which came out a long time ago. (you can find these for free if you hunt around a bit on the interwebz).
I'd also watch the Pacific mini-series which follows the US marines during WW2 and gives insight into horrific jungle fighting conditions. Movies about this area of conflict tend to be insightful too as do any documentaries you can find on you-tube.
Vietnam movies can be good those these tend to feature a lot of air cav support which the 'chan aren't necessarily famous for (that role is given to elysians).
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Post by Kassill on Dec 30, 2014 22:25:17 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure there's a short story in the omnibus I have - though it may be the Death World story you are thinking of: the catachan find some ork caves and a 'marboo' type character often appears in the narrative. you may enjoy sifting references from the old codex and also the catachan codex which came out a long time ago. (you can find these for free if you hunt around a bit on the interwebz). I'd also watch the Pacific mini-series which follows the US marines during WW2 and gives insight into horrific jungle fighting conditions. Movies about this area of conflict tend to be insightful too as do any documentaries you can find on you-tube. Vietnam movies can be good those these tend to feature a lot of air cav support which the 'chan aren't necessarily famous for (that role is given to elysians). That's Death World alright. Catachan Codex? Cool beans. YEah I have seen the Pacific. Need to rewatch though, just did BoB again. Wasn't there a Apoc Catacha Valkyrie formation? |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Dec 30, 2014 22:36:17 GMT -5
Two, actually. There's the Steel Eagle and the Bellerophon Assault Group. Apocalypse Now might be the best movie source of inspirations for the 'Chans, to be honest. Jenburdoo might also have some good book recommendations on the fighting in Burma during WWII, which is another good place to look. |
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Post by jenburdoo on Dec 31, 2014 7:30:06 GMT -5
I strongly recommend anything about the Australians in Vietnam, the Malayan Emergency and WWII, because I personally think the Catachans are based more on them (especially in New Guinea) than on the US. Particularly their company organization which pretty well mirrors that of a WWII Commando "Independent Company." I'm just finishing Osprey's "ANZACs in Vietnam," and Osprey's "Australian Army in WWII" is good too. The Jungle Division is also useful for how a unit optimized for jungle fighting might be organized. For 40K-specific fluff, also consider the old Armageddon Ork Hunters. The old site for it can be found thru the Wayback Machine. It covered Catachans as well, and had a very atmospheric story by Dan Abnett about Ork Hunters in the jungle. |
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Post by Kassill on Dec 31, 2014 14:45:40 GMT -5
Thanks guys! Really appreciate the help. Good recommendations.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 1, 2015 14:20:22 GMT -5
And I strongly recommend burning "Death World."
I'm not a fan of burning books, but that novel is so bad, so poorly written, and so full of stereotypes that it's not even worthy of being used for bog roll.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 1, 2015 14:34:26 GMT -5
I felt largely the same way about Flesh and Iron, although that's not technically Catachan (even though it's very Vietnam-themed).
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Post by jenburdoo on Jan 1, 2015 16:24:56 GMT -5
I rather liked Flesh and Iron, though it does have the feel of a historical with the serial numbers filed off, and I've heard bits of it were plagiarized. But then, I don't ask much of escapist fiction, and I read entirely too much of what TVTropes dubs "RecycledInSpace" for my own good. That's a large part of what attracts me to 40K and the Imperial Guard in the first place. Actual historicals I'm a little stricter about.
Speaking of which, a couple Vietnam classics with possible applicability to a Catachan army are BAT 21, and Platoon Leader.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 1, 2015 17:00:22 GMT -5
I think that was my problem with it, I was expecting more than I should have. It doubled down on every Guard trope out there, especially the "Everyone but this regiment is incompetent". About 2/3rds of the way through I thought I had a pretty good idea of how it would end, and sure enough, when I skipped ahead, I was bang on correct. It just felt like a slightly more tropey and bland version of a Gaunt's Ghosts book to me.
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Post by Kassill on Jan 1, 2015 22:27:30 GMT -5
And I strongly recommend burning "Death World." I'm not a fan of burning books, but that novel is so bad, so poorly written, and so full of stereotypes that it's not even worthy of being used for bog roll. No can do. That book opened my eyes to the universe of 40k. Bad or good, it's symbolic for me. |
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 2, 2015 10:12:35 GMT -5
I think that was my problem with it, I was expecting more than I should have. It doubled down on every Guard trope out there, especially the "Everyone but this regiment is incompetent". About 2/3rds of the way through I thought I had a pretty good idea of how it would end, and sure enough, when I skipped ahead, I was bang on correct. It just felt like a slightly more tropey and bland version of a Gaunt's Ghosts book to me. And also Marbo shows up... Just because.  |
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Post by Kassill on Jan 2, 2015 12:53:57 GMT -5
Does the Bastion Wars series flow together (i.e., are the linked 1, 2, 3, etc etc) or can I just pick and choose?
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Post by jenburdoo on Jan 2, 2015 14:29:54 GMT -5
They're standalone. Only Flesh and Iron is really set in the jungle or even covers IG to a large extent. There are now a couple Straken books, stories and audioplays as well, btw.
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Post by Kassill on Jan 2, 2015 14:57:01 GMT -5
They're standalone. Only Flesh and Iron is really set in the jungle or even covers IG to a large extent. There are now a couple Straken books, stories and audioplays as well, btw. Oooh, will look for those. Still have my old metal Straken. Debating stripping and repainting him or leaving him in his younger less skilled painter version. |
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 2, 2015 16:27:43 GMT -5
I think they got released in a 3 books in one omnibus. At least I'm sure I spied a Bastion Wars omnibus in GW last time.
I highly recommend Fire Caste by Peter Fehervari, which is about a regiment of US civil war confederate types who get sent to a killer death world jungle in a bitter meatgrinder war with the tau. It's very Heart of Darkness with added twists. I think there was a regiment of other jungle fighters mentioned in passing but the book doesn't feature them. It's a great read all the same.
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Post by Kassill on Jan 2, 2015 16:44:33 GMT -5
I think they got released in a 3 books in one omnibus. At least I'm sure I spied a Bastion Wars omnibus in GW last time. I highly recommend Fire Caste by Peter Fehervari, which is about a regiment of US civil war confederate types who get sent to a killer death world jungle in a bitter meatgrinder war with the tau. It's very Heart of Darkness with added twists. I think there was a regiment of other jungle fighters mentioned in passing but the book doesn't feature them. It's a great read all the same. Cool, definitely will. Thanks again guys, helps keep the creative juices flowing and the passion lasting. |
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 2, 2015 16:54:28 GMT -5
Death World wasn't that bad, Trooper. At least it did what it said on the tin and there's no reason for Marbo not to show up alongside Colonel Whatwashisnameagain.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 2, 2015 20:11:14 GMT -5
Death World wasn't that bad, Trooper. At least it did what it said on the tin and there's no reason for Marbo not to show up alongside Colonel Whatwashisnameagain. Report to the nearest meat grinder for Imperial Re-indoctrination Training. |
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Post by jenburdoo on Jan 2, 2015 21:53:02 GMT -5
If you're into nonfiction, there were a lot of (mostly British) WWII books that really inspired my own jungle fighters. The first two should be easy to find, as they have been bestsellers even in the US. The rest will be hard to rustle up unless your library has a generous interlibrary loan policy. I visited the Argylls museum in Stirling Castle, and they'd never heard of the last one!
Defeat Into Victory, by William Slim - account of the three-year war in Burma. Long and dense, but surprisingly readable for all that.
Quartered Safe Out Here, by George MacDonald Fraser - Burma, 1945, from the POV of a private in the Border Regiment
(Slim and Fraser both also wrote very good short fiction about their military experiences, albeit with much less jungle -- Unofficial History and the McAuslan series, respectively
The Wild Green Earth, by Bernard Fergusson - account of the second Chindit expedition
The Jungle is Neutral, by Freddy Spencer Chapman - an explorer/soldier trapped behind Japanese lines in Malaya for three years
The Thin Red Line, by Ian Stewart - the 2nd Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders in Malaya and Singapore
A few histories I also liked. The last three should also be fairly easy to find as they're American.
Bravery Above Blunder by John Coates - 9th Aust. Division in the Huon Peninsula of New Guinea
On Shaggy Ridge by Philip Bradley - 7th Aust. Division in the Ramu Valley of New Guinea
Bloody Buna by Lida Mayo - Short, punchy history of Kokoda and Buna
Bushmasters by Anthony Arthur - US 158th Regimental Combat Team in New Guinea and New Britain
Ghost Mountain Boys by James Campbell - American 32nd Division on the Kokoda Trail
Time-Life WWII series - various volumes, but the Island Fighting, The Rising Sun and CBI volumes have the most jungle stuff in them.
There are loads of Osprey and Squadron/Signal books on Vietnam and WWII jungle warfare -- if your local store does historicals at all they should have some or be able to get them. Some I've read are:
LLRPs In Action (Sqn/Sig)
Airmobile: The Helicopter War in Vietnam (Sqn/Sig)
WWII Jungle Warfare Tactics (Osprey)
Meiktila 1945 (Osprey)
Kohima 1944 (Osprey)
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Post by Kassill on Jan 2, 2015 22:24:31 GMT -5
If you're into nonfiction, there were a lot of (mostly British) WWII books that really inspired my own jungle fighters. The first two should be easy to find, as they have been bestsellers even in the US. The rest will be hard to rustle up unless your library has a generous interlibrary loan policy. I visited the Argylls museum in Stirling Castle, and they'd never heard of the last one! Defeat Into Victory, by William Slim - account of the three-year war in Burma. Long and dense, but surprisingly readable for all that. Quartered Safe Out Here, by George MacDonald Fraser - Burma, 1945, from the POV of a private in the Border Regiment (Slim and Fraser both also wrote very good short fiction about their military experiences, albeit with much less jungle -- Unofficial History and the McAuslan series, respectively The Wild Green Earth, by Bernard Fergusson - account of the second Chindit expedition The Jungle is Neutral, by Freddy Spencer Chapman - an explorer/soldier trapped behind Japanese lines in Malaya for three years The Thin Red Line, by Ian Stewart - the 2nd Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders in Malaya and Singapore A few histories I also liked. The last three should also be fairly easy to find as they're American. Bravery Above Blunder by John Coates - 9th Aust. Division in the Huon Peninsula of New Guinea On Shaggy Ridge by Philip Bradley - 7th Aust. Division in the Ramu Valley of New Guinea Bloody Buna by Lida Mayo - Short, punchy history of Kokoda and Buna Bushmasters by Anthony Arthur - US 158th Regimental Combat Team in New Guinea and New Britain Ghost Mountain Boys by James Campbell - American 32nd Division on the Kokoda Trail Time-Life WWII series - various volumes, but the Island Fighting, The Rising Sun and CBI volumes have the most jungle stuff in them. There are loads of Osprey and Squadron/Signal books on Vietnam and WWII jungle warfare -- if your local store does historicals at all they should have some or be able to get them. Some I've read are: LLRPs In Action (Sqn/Sig) Airmobile: The Helicopter War in Vietnam (Sqn/Sig) WWII Jungle Warfare Tactics (Osprey) Meiktila 1945 (Osprey) Kohima 1944 (Osprey) Excellent! |
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Post by Kassill on Jan 6, 2015 12:09:22 GMT -5
Anyone know where I can find any specifics/stories about the Armageddon Ork Hunters? Lexicanum has pretty general info, but wondering if there are any stories, or specifics of units involved in the actions there.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 6, 2015 17:57:57 GMT -5
Anyone know where I can find any specifics/stories about the Armageddon Ork Hunters? Lexicanum has pretty general info, but wondering if there are any stories, or specifics of units involved in the actions there. You can find some stuff about them in the final Last Chancer's novel (I think it was Annihilation Squad) by Gav Thorpe. There may also be some references to them in some of the older 'Chan and IG 'dexes and possibly older Ork 'dexes too... |
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Post by jenburdoo on Jan 6, 2015 21:09:12 GMT -5
They're mentioned in a couple of Space Marine novels set on Armageddon (forget which ones, Black Templars possibly). The Dan Abnett story can be found thru the Wayback Machine -- web.archive.org/web/20001018152043/http://www.armageddon3.com/english/campaign/Jungle/jungle.htmlMouse over the map to see interesting bits and pieces. Click "Forces" at the bottom, select "Imperial Forces," then look at Catachans and Ork Hunters. Scroll down the Ork Hunters page to find the link to Abnett's story. It is also possible to find the White Dwarf Ork Hunters army list and fluff, if you know where to look online. Oh, and you can find the US Army's jungle warfare field manual, 72-20, and a whole lot of other interesting stuff here: www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/ |
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