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Post by that1guy on Mar 15, 2015 14:00:54 GMT -5
Alright, so finally getting enough GW merchandise together to attempt what I believe may qualify as my first game.
I've got an officer with a swagger stick and plasma pistol. Like to call him captain McZappyface. He's got a banner barer in his unit there with a power sword, first sgt. toughnutts carrying around a melta, a radio operator & I was thinking of just fumbling through my bits to cobble together a medic if not I'll throw a grenade launcher in there for good measure.
I've got 5... maybe 6 sniper's. Some more GW plastic than others. Most not at all...
Chimera w/ heavy bolter turret, hull mounted flame thrower, and a HK missile, dude sticking out the hatch with a bolt pistol. Unfortunately it's all glued together like that, thinking about using a coin or a token to symbolize when the HK rocket is spent. About the only thing optional now on it is a heavy stubber but I think I might already have too many points tied up into a Chimera.
Got a Catachan commander with a bolt rifle and a power fist from Dcrabb, thanks again sir! I was thinking of haggling together that cheesilicious flamer spam PCS, as I have more flame thrower's now than I know what to do with. Is that cheese still valid in 7th?
I've got like 12-17 lasrifle guardsmen with a missile launcher team. <shout out to West Rider for that ML team! Could bring a flame thrower, or a grenade launcher with these guys. Have another radio operator to boot!
Salamander kit bash. Auto cannon and heavy bolter. This one's a little more optional, the hatch will be magnetized. Right now I only have a spot light and a closed hatch for it.
Armored sentinel. Optional HK missile, auto cannon, Las cannon... yadda, yadda yadda. I'm sure you guys know all about sentinel options. Armored sentinel no smoke launcher.
Heavy weapon's team's. Thanks to Rich that gave me that sweet steel legion heavy bolter team! Also have a missile launcher, and two auto cannon's.
Finally my 83rd bits'n'pieces company will be seizing a local defence line in the name of the Emperor, and I don't think they'll be giving it up (or the quad gun)
That's about all I have assembled. On my workbench I've got mason jar's with some empire calvalry that need to be converted into rough rider's, more flame thrower's and grenade launcher's than I know what to do with so... Special weapon's platoon? . Mason jars full of lascannon's and heavy bolter's and missile's of all sorts of varieties... Been doing my research and I'm thinking a Vendetta w/techpriest as my next major purchase. Want a servitor with a plasma cannon so bad it almost wets my pants! Local nerd station has sales on GW merchandise late summer.
In the mean time I'll be scavenging for loyalist survivor's on the waste lands of ebayimus prime, and sadly have been encountering many fallen from the grace of the Emperor.
Command has been issuing reports of conscripts to bolster our withering ranks, but the vet's in the trenches have heard command issue a lot of "reports".
I want to thank the IGMB and my homies in the trading post.
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Post by treadiculous on Mar 19, 2015 4:32:31 GMT -5
righty!
sounds like you have an interesting mix!
I would suggest the following:
Commander + squad: they have been equipped with short range weapons making them a good choice to go in the chimera, be careful about getting your warlord killed though. I wouldn't spend out on a medic myself but it might be worth it given the 'lead from the front' role yours has.
Troops: you have 17 guardsmen including one heavy weapon team, add another heavy team and a sniper and you have 20; this gives you 2 full veteran squads.
Heavy Weapon Squads: these really want to be the same gun type, you have 2 autocannon which are good vs light vehicles and infantry and I feel the missile launcher will probably work better than the heavy bolter. (put the heavy bolter in to one of the troop units).
Add salamander and sentinel and you have a nice patrol force.
The nice thing about an army this size is that games will be fluid and pacey, the turns will be quick and the table will have enough room for tactical maneuvers.
Flamers are great though I'd recommend you get more basic troops; they are the strength of the guard.
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Post by that1guy on Mar 19, 2015 8:49:47 GMT -5
It's really great to have your input. Not really sure I designed my warlord "Captain McZappyface", for a lead from the front role. I just wanted him to have the fire power to deal with 'nids rising from the deep behind my lines. (What is that giant worm thingy a Marlock?)
Realistically, in an army this small I'm sure they will both get their fair share of the front line. Major Buzzcut with his bolt rifle and power fist there were going to be my main frontline choice HQ with that flamer spam PCS cheese.
What would an HQ look like that was more a "sit back and issue order's to deny my enemy the warlord kill" role?
Yeah, vets. yeah! F@c* YEAH!! That would totally go with the fluff, I mean these guys are the few who survived the horror's of the 41st millennium and lived to be processed back into a bits'n'peices regiment.
I see vets are a really popular choice over most other troop choices here in the IGMB list's I've been lurking through. Wonder what makes them so popular compared to other choices?
Thank you for your input and suggestions.
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Post by treadiculous on Mar 20, 2015 15:49:48 GMT -5
Veterans are popular because they are cheaper financially, and also because they shoot better and can have more cool stuff.
To field a PCS you will need ti build a platoon, these require a PCS and 2 infantry squads; this combined is considered 1 troops choice
With veterans each squad counts as a troops choice so they are easier to gather in the early days.
If you want to make a platoon you will need to find another squad of infantry - this will be necessary if you want to field and HWS or SWS due to the fact that only platoons can be supported by those type of squads.
this sounds confusing, what I am describing is the way a platoon has a set format:
1 PCS 2 Troop madatory Up to 3 more Troop Up to 5 HWS Up to 2 (?) SWS
this whole lot of infantry= 1 troops choice in the force organisation chart.
where as veterans are 1 squad = 1 troops choice in the force organisation chart.
chimera bought for either platoons or veterans count as troops for the purpose of objectives - but do not effect the force organisation chart.
easy? right!
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Post by that1guy on Mar 21, 2015 8:43:09 GMT -5
Basically what I'm hearing is that I need more dudes.
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Post by treadiculous on Mar 21, 2015 16:23:20 GMT -5
you are collecting a guard army after all!
As I have said, you have enough to knock together a reasonable patrol / reconnaissance force.
The size of game you play will be dictated by the models you and your friends have.
Small games are a lot more fun in my opinion.
And armies that are based on a theme will be more enjoyable that a "list of powerful units as decreed by the interwebs" army.
but yeah, if you want to field that heavy weapon squad and the PCS of flamers then get yourself another few dudes.
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Post by that1guy on Mar 24, 2015 14:32:22 GMT -5
Well I don't think many people what to be "that guy" [don't let my screen name fool you ;^) ] who goes for the 'list of powerful units as decreed by the interwebs', at the time I was putting together that PCS of flamer spam cheese we had a 'nid player who didn't know the meaning of the word "sportsmanship". I just wanted to give him what for.
Okay, I have another question maybe you can help me with. (I should probably just give in and buy the codex already)
I got a model both I and dcrabb who swapped it to me in the trading post refer to as 'Shiv' from the last chancer's. He looks like a tribal native American and as best as I can recognize he has a plasma pistol strapped to his hip! Now I've already got my warlord packing a plasma pistol.... what can I possibly use this dude for?
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Post by imperatordeus on Apr 26, 2015 22:50:11 GMT -5
If I understand you correctly, you say you have a banner bearer with a power sword. You can't do that; a veteran in a command squad can only have one upgrade. It lists upgrades like banners, vox-casters, heavy flamers and medi-packs saying that "one veteran" may take them, then it says:
"Two other veterans may form a Veteran Weapons Team . . ."
and; "Any remaining Veteran that has not been not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace his lasgun with one item from the Special Weapons list."
Only the Officer can choose options from the Melee Weapons list, which is where the Power Sword and Power Fist are. I think you can give him a chainsword though, since it says:
"Any Veteran may replace his Lasgun with a Laspistol and Close Combat Weapon."
That, to me, means that the Standard Bearer, the Medic and the Vox Operator can all take Laspistols and CCWs, because they don't have to trade their Lasguns for the other upgrades. In order to take a heavy flamer, special weapon or make a heavy weapon team, they have to trade in their lasguns, so they couldn't have pistols or CCWs.
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Post by treadiculous on Apr 27, 2015 4:47:11 GMT -5
yup, that would be correct
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Post by that1guy on Apr 27, 2015 9:47:52 GMT -5
Hmmmm... Well since that mother lover is glued on there good I'm going to just run the cool prosthetic arm as a close combat weapon then.
One of the threads here on the IGMB has finishing up a Special weapon's squad using all those spare Flamer thrower's and Grenade Launcher's I didn't know what to do with.
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Post by that1guy on May 6, 2015 19:07:23 GMT -5
Alright, so I just got donated a lemans russ. Seriously like for free by some really nice nerd at my local nerd hive. Guy said he just liked helping people new to the game out! Score right?
In the middle of crunching together a Command Salamander, and I got this sweet model in a swap. This 'Shiv' character from the (if I'm not mistaken) last chancer's, looks like he's sporting a plasma pistol and a knife? What can I use this guy for?
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Post by jenburdoo on May 7, 2015 2:41:43 GMT -5
He can be a sergeant in a squad intended for assault (say, with a flamer or melta, or a Vet squad). He's too ragged-looking to make an officer. If you can get it, the Last Chancers box is atypically the same price it originally came at (35 bucks) and there's a host of characterful and heavily armed figs in there -- a heavy bolter (who could double as Stonetooth Harker), a Catachan-ish missile launcher girl, a meltagunner, and several interesting lasgunners, plus a good officer fig and two that would work as Commissars. It's a useful addition to any new army.
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Post by that1guy on May 10, 2015 12:18:46 GMT -5
Sweet! That certainly solves that problem, and another interesting update that has helped a few of my other problems. I just made a 5 man rough rider squad and after reading the rules I'm not so worried about these extra flame thrower's and grenade launcher's I've got laying around my bits box.
Kind of trying to figure out how to magnetize the waist so that I can just switch out the torso's on the two rider's who will be taking special weapon's options.
I've almost filled my PCS quota of special weapon's squads! Yikes, what am I going to do with all those flamethrower's and grenade launcher's then?
Should start hacking them up for decorative basing before they pile up on me.
Too bad I don't have this problem with melta's.
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Post by jenburdoo on May 10, 2015 20:01:51 GMT -5
For the RRs, I'd suggest just blutacking loose specweps to their backs and switching them out as you like.
As for the flamers, consider playing Unbound, fielding multiple FOCs, or allying with Elysian D-99 (IA IV Second Edition), who get spec-wep squads 10 strong, with every man armed with a spec-wep.
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Post by that1guy on May 16, 2015 14:15:05 GMT -5
For the RRs, I'd suggest just blutacking loose specweps to their backs and switching them out as you like. As for the flamers, consider playing Unbound, fielding multiple FOCs, or allying with Elysian D-99 (IA IV Second Edition), who get spec-wep squads 10 strong, with every man armed with a spec-wep. These are all really helpful suggestions, thank you so much.
Check out my army in the Picture Posting section of the IGMB!
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Post by that1guy on Jun 7, 2015 21:53:16 GMT -5
Heavy Weapon Squads: these really want to be the same gun type, you have 2 autocannon which are good vs light vehicles and infantry and I feel the missile launcher will probably work better than the heavy bolter. (put the heavy bolter in to one of the troop units). Okay, played my first game. (Died gloriously in the name of the Immortal God Emperor) Aaaand I ran my heavy weapon's teams WYSIWYG, which means I ran one team with two heavy bolters & 1 Mortar, the other I converted to 2 ML's and 1 AC & they were amazingly effective. I honestly don't understand why everyone is so adamant about running the same gun type.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 7, 2015 22:55:07 GMT -5
Heavy Weapon Squads: these really want to be the same gun type, you have 2 autocannon which are good vs light vehicles and infantry and I feel the missile launcher will probably work better than the heavy bolter. (put the heavy bolter in to one of the troop units). Okay, played my first game. (Died gloriously in the name of the Immortal God Emperor) Aaaand I ran my heavy weapon's teams WYSIWYG, which means I ran one team with two heavy bolters & 1 Mortar, the other I converted to 2 ML's and 1 AC & they were amazingly effective. I honestly don't understand why everyone is so adamant about running the same gun type. The theory is that the increase in the squad's effectiveness against the weapon's intended targets (Orks and non-MEQs for heavy bolters, heavy vehicles for lascannons, etc) from the mono-weapon build is worth more than it's general weakness against it's non intended target. For example, a lascannon battery full of three lascannons has a better chance at killing a heavy tank than a squad with two HBs and a lascannon. The fact that lascannons aren't that useful against infantry is worth the AT killing power you get from the homogenous weapon selection. Compare this with a squad that takes two (or, Emperor forbid, three) different heavy weapon types. They might be able to affect a wider array of targets, but you're unable to muster enough shots from the most effective weapon type to actually do much damage, since you only have one, and Guard ballistic skill is.... well, let's be kind, it could be better. The AC/ML combo is an interesting caveat to this. Both excel at taking down light vehicles, and their strength still lets them hit very hard against tough infantry targets, while they can muster enough shots (or in the case of the ML, a small template) to at least bother large groups of squishy infantry. It's possibly the best compromise between strength, AP, and shots being put downrange. Again, dedicated batteries of ACs and MLs might be more effective at their specific roles, but there's enough overlap that this compromise might be worthwhile. I'd recommend dropping the mortar from the HB squad, though, but that's just because I've just never felt them to be especially useful or versatile. Maybe that's changed in the most recent editions.
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Post by that1guy on Jun 8, 2015 16:20:48 GMT -5
Okay, played my first game. (Died gloriously in the name of the Immortal God Emperor) Aaaand I ran my heavy weapon's teams WYSIWYG, which means I ran one team with two heavy bolters & 1 Mortar, the other I converted to 2 ML's and 1 AC & they were amazingly effective. I honestly don't understand why everyone is so adamant about running the same gun type. The theory is that the increase in the squad's effectiveness against the weapon's intended targets (Orks and non-MEQs for heavy bolters, heavy vehicles for lascannons, etc) from the mono-weapon build is worth more than it's general weakness against it's non intended target. For example, a lascannon battery full of three lascannons has a better chance at killing a heavy tank than a squad with two HBs and a lascannon. The fact that lascannons aren't that useful against infantry is worth the AT killing power you get from the homogenous weapon selection. Compare this with a squad that takes two (or, Emperor forbid, three) different heavy weapon types. They might be able to affect a wider array of targets, but you're unable to muster enough shots from the most effective weapon type to actually do much damage, since you only have one, and Guard ballistic skill is.... well, let's be kind, it could be better. The AC/ML combo is an interesting caveat to this. Both excel at taking down light vehicles, and their strength still lets them hit very hard against tough infantry targets, while they can muster enough shots (or in the case of the ML, a small template) to at least bother large groups of squishy infantry. It's possibly the best compromise between strength, AP, and shots being put downrange. Again, dedicated batteries of ACs and MLs might be more effective at their specific roles, but there's enough overlap that this compromise might be worthwhile. I'd recommend dropping the mortar from the HB squad, though, but that's just because I've just never felt them to be especially useful or versatile. Maybe that's changed in the most recent editions. Before I disagree with you, I would just like to say that I do value and respect your experience and wisdom in this hobby. Listening to the advice of senior members of the IGMB has proved helpful, interesting & enlightening on more occasions than I can count with my shoes off. Furthermore just because I am disagreeing with you on this one occasion does not by any means that I want you to stop sharing your opinion & experience with me here in the IGMB.
Post disclaimer; the 2xHB's & 1 Mortar combo was incredibly effective in multiple rounds, and I would be confident in claiming that it was THE most effective thing in my army. Over the lemans russ battle tank, over either squads of veterans I brought, & although he is not here for me to ask I am confident the 'nid player who felt their wrath for 3 rounds would wholey agree.
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Post by that1guy on Jun 8, 2015 16:25:34 GMT -5
Alright, that said the ML's +1 AC combo probably would have been more effective if I had remembered to buy them those skyfire missiles. Aaaaaand I don't really see me not buying those skyfire missiles ever again for any ML as long as 7th edition stands.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 8, 2015 17:00:07 GMT -5
Yeah, if the HB+Mortar thing works for you, keep it in the list until it stops working. That, as a good rule, is usually a good way to approach these sorts of things. Like I said, my dislike of mortars is really just my personal feelings on the matter. If they work for you, absolutely stick with them.
Also, I appreciate your kind words in the first half of your post. You don't need to worry about scaring us away by disagreeing with the advice we dispense. This forum is about debate and discussion over what works, so if you find a unique build that works well, stick with it. I apologize if I came off wrong in my post. I wasn't trying to take you to ask over a "bad" build, just explaining the thinking behind the mono-weapon philosophy.
Also, a caveat about my experience in particular; I haven't really played or kept up with the rules since the very start of 6th Ed, so I usually don't dispense advice because I don't feel qualified to give it.
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Post by that1guy on Jun 8, 2015 17:24:22 GMT -5
Yeah, if the HB+Mortar thing works for you, keep it in the list until it stops working. That, as a good rule, is usually a good way to approach these sorts of things. Like I said, my dislike of mortars is really just my personal feelings on the matter. If they work for you, absolutely stick with them. Also, I appreciate your kind words in the first half of your post. You don't need to worry about scaring us away by disagreeing with the advice we dispense. This forum is about debate and discussion over what works, so if you find a unique build that works well, stick with it. I apologize if I came off wrong in my post. I wasn't trying to take you to ask over a "bad" build, just explaining the thinking behind the mono-weapon philosophy. Also, a caveat about my experience in particular; I haven't really played or kept up with the rules since the very start of 6th Ed, so I usually don't dispense advice because I don't feel qualified to give it. Oh no no no no.... you didn't come off wrong in your post at all, it's just on the interwebz people can become all too comfortable with becoming all too rude for the most ridiculous infractions.
Since the great WWW has come into my life it has never ceased to amaze me exactly how pathetic some peoples etiquette is when they can physically hide behind a computer screen unknown miles away from the target of their verbal abuse.
Personally I feel that its just in the best interest of the community to be extra polite in debate. (It's also greatly improves our attrition rates as the commissars... er, I mean moderators will be executing... er, I mean banning less members to maintain moral around here in the IGMB)
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Post by that1guy on Jun 10, 2015 20:10:10 GMT -5
"Yeah, if the HB+Mortar thing works for you, keep it in the list until it stops working." ~need more advice like this people. To the untrained eye? vague. But upon further observation this appears very deep on different levels.
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Noobs army
Jun 27, 2015 21:58:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mccaptain on Jun 27, 2015 21:58:59 GMT -5
Can you write out what you have in a list format without commentary?
Example:
Grenade launchers x 6 Snipers x 5 Lasgun x 40
Etc.
That will help me on figuring out what to suggest.
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Post by that1guy on Jun 28, 2015 12:17:00 GMT -5
@ McCaptain, Uuuuuhmm.... I can try! Mind you I don't really have a great idea of what I'm doing so I'm just assembling stuff for a game out of what pieces I have compiled.
Leman russ x 1 + 1 currently under construction.
Hydra/Wyvern on its way via le parcel. So really after I wrap up this Raver pattern thunderbolt kitbash, finish making the bare minimum 20 las rifle men needed to field the unit of conscripts I set out to assemble with the first battle force boxed set I bought to get into this game over 2 years ago *gasp* ...I was thinking about making some sort of rough rider contingent that pulls the wagon drawn basilisk guns for my artillery, but I'd be free to suggestion's after I clear some old projects off of my work bench.
would you suggest I continue to fill out my lemans russ & wyvern/hydra squads? Tell you the truth. After these last couple games I've played I could use the anti-aircraft fire!
Y'know, this is going to take up a minute to count up everything I've got. I'll get back to you on this list.
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Noobs army
Jun 28, 2015 12:39:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mccaptain on Jun 28, 2015 12:39:45 GMT -5
Or maybe just post a picture of your collection might be easier.
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