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Post by yvain on Jun 1, 2015 13:59:44 GMT -5
Well I think the current SM codex is pretty great. That is probably the best codex they have done in this current volley. They really need to buff up the more useless choices. The problem there is that some of these issues may be BRB problems.
AM need a buff of some kind. Maybe a second attack per model and a price drop by a point or so. Vanguards need something as well, their special bonus is complete garbage.
Bikes are already really strong, but compared to Eldar bikes they are not really priced appropriately. So maybe a small price drop.
Whirlwinds serve no purpose right now. They need to change their main weapon around some how because there is point to ever grab one over a thunderfire.
Terminators need something. The ability to combine assault and standard into one unit would be great. Some more weapon options as well would be useful.
All of the vehicles need something to enhance their durability and usefulness. They all pale in comparison to what armies like necrons and eldar can field. Something has to be done. And Land Raiders should get fricking dozer blades for free.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 1, 2015 14:16:24 GMT -5
As it stands I think marine players want better tactical marines. The chapter tactics thing was good and a real step in the right direction but all biker armies (with white scar tactics) ended up being the best build because of grav guns and Relentless and being able to drive anywhere, even up ruins; so lots were just leaving the tacticals at home for more mobile, outflanking biker armies. Apparently devastators are being reboxed and they'll get one of each heavy weapon in the box (not two...) and a 'new' heavy weapon ; the grav cannon. (well at least it'll be new for power armoured models; and that's good; I really didn't fancy buying centurions after all....) ^Whirlwinds are bad compared to thunderfire but apparently they will be able to be squadroned. Actually I've got one and I want to try it out just for the missile that denies cover saves. Still its only S4
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 1, 2015 14:36:33 GMT -5
Somehow, I'm not shocked about the Dev reboxing. Glad I have my three squads already assembled.
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Post by yvain on Jun 1, 2015 14:39:56 GMT -5
I have enough Devs, but a grav cannon unit would be helpful. I probably won't buy it though. They probably also need to rescale the special weapons options, which they probably won't. It should go like this:
HB = Free MM = 5 ML w/Flak 10 LC/PC/GC = 15
Flamer = Free Melta/Grav Rifle = 10 Plasma Rifle = 15
Plasma Pistol = 5 Grav Pistol = 10
Power Spear/Maul = 5 Power Sword = 10 Claws = 10 Power Axe = 15 Power Fist = 25
The idea here is that it maybe give you a reason to take some of the unused options.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 1, 2015 15:24:42 GMT -5
Got to agree, the current codex seems fine to me, I don't know it thoroughly though so I'm happy to be corrected. A good gauge is watching what seasoned players use ... not many Whirlwinds that's for sure. Maybe they'll get better ammo in a fortnight ?
Do you think the ability to take tanks in squadrons will give them the tweek they need ? And these Command Tanks may end up adding a bonus or two.
I do like the Chapter Tactics, a bit like "doctrines" of 4th ed. Guard. I hope some more are written into they new codex.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 1, 2015 15:30:21 GMT -5
I'm a fan of the Chapter Tactics too. I really liked the old "Chapter Traits" system from the 4th Ed (I think) codex, where you selected traits and drawbacks based on how far from the Codex your chapter had wandered. I'm hoping they won't revert to the 5th Ed 'If you want to run a specific chapter you need X special character", but I think it's unlikely.
Does anyone know if there's going to be any brand new units? I figure it'd just be recut sprues, new wargear, and redone kits at this point, since the SM roster is pretty filled out already.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 1, 2015 17:26:59 GMT -5
Just in case there's someone who hasn't seen this yet I thought I'd throw it up ...
via a reader on Faeit 212 Space Marine HQ Command Tanks sold in one box together with only one sprue to upgrade both base tanks (think the price is £75). They have either the space marines, blood angels, dark angels or space wolves faction. They are chosen together as one HQ slot but operate as separate units on the battlefield.
Rhino Primaris gets an Orbital Array which either brings in one reserve unit automatically or calls an orbital alpha strike (massive blast orbital bombardment) and also has a serveo-skull hub which once per game, per ability, gives one unit in 12” snapshots (including overwatch) at full BS OR fearless OR vehicles only, restore 1 hull point on 2+. Comes with twin-linked plasma gun and transport capacity of 6. No information on points cost yet for either tank.
Excelsior has Aquila Aegis field which is effectively extra armour with inbuilt 6++. One unit within 12″ (can be upgraded to 18″ for 10pts) gains one special rule for the turn from: counter-attack, fearless, hit & run, Interceptor, preferred enemy, sky fire, spit fire or tank hunters. Can take a combi plasma. Comes with 2 twin linked lascannons, a grav cannon and grav.
If an Excelsior is within 24” of one or more friendly primaris then +1 BS to excelsior. Both tanks can take the usual stormbolter, hunter killer, extra armour and dozer blade (rhino only) upgrades.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 1, 2015 18:10:55 GMT -5
I'd like to see more FOC's within the book; It'd be nice to have a couple of different company's described with different FOC's in each - eg; First company allows more elite units and HQ's while 3rd company could offer a lot more transport options while 7th company offers a lot of fast attack slots.
I'd also like to see the continuation of the chapter tactics where it wasn't necessary to purchase a character to get the army wide special rules.
I don't really want anything new added in terms of wargear
I would love some device which could allow deepstrking jump packs a little more accuracy and a storm-raven that had transport capacity 20 at the cost of losing the dreadnought transportation option.
I don't really mind what they do to be honest as I'm just as likely to make up my own set of rules if the new ones are over or under powered.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 2, 2015 2:29:59 GMT -5
there's a lot of love for the "Chapter Tactics". I hate to sound cynical ... I really do ... but what's the betting that they're removed and it returns to the previous rules as part of a strategy to sell more "Character Models".
Storm Eagle can carry 20 I believe.
I'd consider taking it (Well, it would be a converted Storm Raven). Only if we could put Multiple squads in like the Stormlord.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 2, 2015 4:00:17 GMT -5
storm eagle weapons aren't as good (or what I've modeled on my conversion) so I'd like to see the weapon options improved - and you're right, the vehicle needs the option to carry more than one squad too.
I'd also like to see more special weapon slots in basic units - these are space marines and should be able to take a number of melta or flamer or plasma if they want to.
Also - Vanguard vets could really do with a more useful skill for the points they cost!
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 2, 2015 4:14:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I've only just had my second game as a marine player and I find it hard to grasp that an Guard Vet squad can take so many more goodies than a SM Tac Squad, who I thought would be able to take as much of whatever they like.
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Post by yvain on Jun 2, 2015 10:53:43 GMT -5
Apparently with the new AM, the big chainsword is an Eviscerator and they are not restricted to the Sgt. This is confirmed true by a picture from GW website. Yeah, I've only just had my second game as a marine player and I find it hard to grasp that an Guard Vet squad can take so many more goodies than a SM Tac Squad, who I thought would be able to take as much of whatever they like. Its a durability verse offense thing. In addition, TAC squads get a bad rep because other unit seem to overshadow them because they are general purpose. They are not supposed to be you dedicated kill units, but ones to hold the line or take specific objectives. The killing unit equivient is Sternguard who can use multiple combi weapons with their special ammo.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 2, 2015 14:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 2, 2015 15:03:24 GMT -5
If we're lucky, the codex will still have some version of chapter tactics, or some other similar style of flexibility, with these sub-codecies being expanded rules and stuff.
I'm not especially hopeful, though.
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 2, 2015 18:07:37 GMT -5
It would work pretty well with sub-codices though. Chapter tactics in the main book leans your army in a certain direction and then the sub-codex offers a few units that mesh well with that leaning.
It would also give the advantage of letting marine players try out weird combinations, matching up chapter tactics that weren't intended to go with a certain supplement to see what happens, or to represent how that player sees their own chapter.
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Post by jenburdoo on Jun 2, 2015 18:34:41 GMT -5
I don't think I'll even bother at this point. I haven't played my Marines since 5th ed. If I do, I'll just play fourth edition or so -- since at this rate, my only opponents are gonna be teens at work who have never heard of 40K anyway.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 3, 2015 3:53:25 GMT -5
my philosphy is that I own my marines so they aren't gong to have wargear changed to make them fit new options, they aren't going to adapt to new rules, they are just going to be stubborn and cranky 1000 year old human freaks that will look the same on the table regardless of the rules.
I like jump packs and dreadnoughts and assault cannons on flying bricks so will continue to jump flying bricks into dreaded assaults.
I will probably spend an hour or so scanning the web when the codex has been out a couple of months and then forget about it. Their stats will all be 4's with a 3+ save, a bolter will still shoot 24" and they will cost around 15 to 20 points. Other smaller details may come and go as they please.
I like 7th ed though: the stuff at the front dies soonest so bottlenecks are scary, most of the rest was like 6th, which was like 5th, which was like... etc: you still roll to hit, to wound, to save. There are some other rules but if you know your army then they don't change that much.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 3, 2015 6:11:22 GMT -5
Yeah, the current codex works fine game wise, I may just stick to it.
jkiiiiiiiip-0[ My cat just made a contribution to this thread (line above) when he walked across my keyboard.
And yes, 99% of the rules will be the same. Just have to find the 1% of real changes from some kind soul and we're all good.
The cost of these new books, Core rules, Codex for each faction, supplements to enhance the factions is obviously an issue. My real problem is just that I don't have the time to re learn it all two or three times a year. (I've given up on my Tau, Orks, Necrons and Space wolves for exactly this reason. They're likely to be on ebay soon).
When I say re learn I also include making the list I want, buying any additions, building it to a good standard etc.
And yes, 7th is far better and I do like playing it (both 7th ed. games I've had). But, and I'm being really honest here, most of the rule changes were so obviously and urgently required how they got 6th ed wrong is beyond me. I started with 5th ed, and even back then I was wondering why the front model wasn't the casualty, how a CC attack on a tank can destroy a tank 10" away just because it's in the same squadron, how a blob of 50 Guard can be destroyed by one character just because they failed a ld test. All those stupid rules that made the game unrealistic.
Yep, 7th is good. But if this GW marketing trend of changing books every 2 years carries on ... I won't be buying 8th ed.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 3, 2015 7:43:24 GMT -5
between ebay and the interweb I find I can get the rules I need fairly easily. It might take a month or two for a copy of the rules I want to turn up but they do eventually.
I quite like reading through the reviews that people create on forums about what has changed and what hasn't and then applying that to my stuff - when i read the rules of a new codex I don't spot the differences so these help me a lot. Normally it doesn't change anything about my list unless points costs go up or down; I know the lists I like to play.
That said I have enjoyed gathering the bits required to make a 'blitz brigade' formation for my orks, mainly because of the modelling opportunity it presented.
I would hope they will keep to 7th for a decent length of time now, especially as they have so many new codex's built on those rules.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 3, 2015 8:11:52 GMT -5
I would hope they will keep to 7th for a decent length of time now, especially as they have so many new codex's built on those rules. God I hope so ... !!! and that hope extends to the codices too.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 3, 2015 16:01:57 GMT -5
Yep, 7th is good. But if this GW marketing trend of changing books every 2 years carries on ... I won't be buying 8th ed. Haha! That's exactly what I said last time around, and to be fair I did manage to blank 7th for about the first six months, then Stormclaw came out and suddenly I was splitting a starter set and taking the rules, then we started playing 7th...
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 4, 2015 6:15:41 GMT -5
This has nearly become an "anti GW" rant thread again ... my fault.
Back to topic !!!
I want a squad of ten scouts to be able to take two landspeeder storms !!! Someone please tell me that this is going to happen !!!
I wan an HQ choice who can chose to cut about in scout armour !!! Someone please tell me that this is going to happen !!!
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 4, 2015 7:07:20 GMT -5
one squad with 2 transports...
interesting idea.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 4, 2015 8:00:56 GMT -5
If the vehicles were in a squadron and the squad could disembark while still following the rules for squad coherency and vehicle disembarking, I don't see why that wouldn't make sense.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 4, 2015 8:55:33 GMT -5
It would lend itself nicely to a tactical squad having 2 razorbacks and using combat squad disciple.
A tactical advantage which would suit the marines.
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