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Post by treadiculous on Dec 6, 2015 19:44:49 GMT -5
Emptyhat and Cheminhaler had formed the Mighty Purple Alliance (MPA) and were set to fight against 2000 points of Tread's armies. This ended up being a Marine and Guard Alliance vs a 2000 point Ork army. Tread had assembled what turned out to be an illegal army list – having 6 gifts (relics) and only 5 HQ's he would have broken the 1 gift per HQ restriction. The Ork Blitzbike Gift wasn't ever used so theoretically this made tread's army more legal-er. There were also some questionable shenanigans regarding bikes amongst infantry squads – all of which would have had little overall effect on the game. (the only notable bike related action was when Chemin destroyed a warboss on bike with his powerfist – the Warboss completely failed to strike the Marine Commander), had all the bikes been removed the game would have been more straightforward but ultimately still a mess. Tread had assembled a Green Tide of 30 Ard boys in 4+ armour, 70 slugga boys and then attached a Painboy with 5+ Feel No Pain as well as a Big Mek with Mega Forcefield (thus giving a 4+ invulnerable aura effect). There was also a Warboss with Big Boss Pole giving Fearless to the Green Tide, and another Big Mek with Lucky Stick who provided + 1 WS to the Tide. Turn 1 - after moving and running (not in the picture is some Shoota Boys on the far left who were not part of the Green Tide) (The Big Rig represented a Firestorm Bunker with 2 Icarus Lascannon mounts). The 1st turn was mainly orks running forward and not dying enough. However, The Big Mek with Mega Forcefield got splatted by accurate artillery and an Earthshaker shell doesn't mess around: Despite this Tread had the luck of Mork and the combination of Eavy Armour and Feel No Pain meant that very few Orks succumbed to the incoming fire. Turn 2: Tread also got lucky with his run rolls and his moving through cover rolls... and his charge roll was a double 6. This meant that turn 2 saw the Orks in combat and were given a Hammer of Wrath attack too (which made up for the loss of an attack for a disorganised charge). Just prior to the Green Tide's charge: The one combat that went in the favour of the Imperials was when some plucky Shootas charged 5 assault marines, the orks were slain in the turn they assaulted! [/URL] Elsewhere the Imperials tried to cut down the incoming wave, Empty scored 9 hits with his flamers in overwatch and yet only 1 wounded - which then got saved by FNP.. This put the majority of the Marines and Guard in close combat and from there on a series of messy struggles slowly whittled down the greenskins yet the casualties were higher on the Guard and Marine side – by the end of turn 2 very little of Empty's army was still standing. [/URL] The Marine Captain fought valiantly and racked up a huge number of kills; at least double figures and probably heading for twenty! Meanwhile the rest of the Marines weathered the storm and held their ground, And They Shall Know No Fear often ensuring the fight continued. Empty's sentinel fell prey to the only thing the FireStorm Base shot at the entire game and in the mean time small bands of Shoota boys were scurrying around behind the Ork lines gathering objectives and victory points. After much bashing, smashing, clobbering and clumping the Imperial lines were looking thin, however in the final turn of the game Empty's Assasin finally arrived at the bunker roof, A fight which initially looked like this: and became this: The Assaassin proved to be a deadly opponent; shredding numerous wounds off Waaag'un. The game ended at this point, the Assassin and Waag'un locked in combat, Chemin's mighty warlord eventually succumbed to weight of green and there were very few marines still alive - however; due to the missions the Imperial side had they could have won if the Assassin were to take down Waag'un. The Green Tide was successfully able to deliver my Nobs and Warbosses to the enemy lines and the Eavy Armour and Feel No Pain was very useful. The game mechanics were confusing and we generally bodged the rules to make the game fluid and logical as it isn't designed for multiple close combats of 10 squads vs 1 huge squad. In reflection I would have preferred to have brought a legal army! (I hadn't deliberately intended to break rules), I feel if I were to re-write the list it would exclude the bikes and probably feature Deff Kopta's as an outflanking and Anti Air unit instead of the Firestorm Base (its fully automated rules were potentially problematic).
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 7, 2015 15:43:31 GMT -5
Admittedly I was shocked at how fast Da Green Tide moves. From my understanding later on (and after a bit of research) Tread was also using a specific item to get a second warlord trait; which could have ended up with an outflanking warboss moving the entire mega tide unit onto one flank or the other, via scout/ reserves. Presumably he would still have been rolling normally for reserves unless the warlord trait had any modifiers. Anyway, he didn't get the warlord trait so its a moot point. But it still opens up several thoughts: Being that he charged us normally in turn 2 was it even worth sticking the whole caboodle into reserve, where it could have been potentially further delayed?
Shooting-wise that was my worst game ever. I could have even taken pot shots at the fortification with my lascannon devs, who were perfectly positioned to do so while everyone else was charging the green tide, but a swift order from Amethyst Brigadier First Class Emptyhat soon put paid to that idea and the devastators prepared to use their lascannons as clubs instead.
Ironically that was the first time my original captain was used in a game, even though my mechanised army captain has the exact same load-out. The original rocks! And so much better than the replacement captain who has chainsword, meltabombs and stormshield. Just goes to prove slightly cheaper isn't always better. He must have ended up being flattened in between a sandwich of living orks on top of all the slain ork body parts scattered around by the powerfisting.
If only that 'sin wasn't so busy eating snacks, deep behind enemy lines.... We almost held the line dammit.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 7, 2015 16:19:43 GMT -5
I was hoping to get the Infiltrate special rule - not the outflank, the option of setting up an extra 6" was closer was deliciously tempting, and the same tables features night fighting which could have been useful - in the end the minus one to reserves you had slowed the assassin enough to let me get a good stomp on.
I'd be happy to re-match though I'd field some other stuff in the non-green tide section, and the tide itself would be tweaked to 1 - be legal, 2 replace big mek with MFF with another painboy and lose all the bikes - keep the extra warboss though as the gifts were well handy! (Fearless, +1 WS) combined with the 4+ save and FNP its simply evil. (and comes to less than 1000 points)
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Post by nutty on Dec 8, 2015 7:10:25 GMT -5
Looks like a fun game, although it must have taken forever to move all those Greenskins across the field.
The counts-as firestorm redoubt is a great idea; it may not have done much during the game, but it certainly looks the part. And I like the idea that it just pulled up and parked on the battlefield, as opposed to magically building a bunker overnight in range of the enemies guns.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 8, 2015 15:26:52 GMT -5
I think the things I learned in this game are: 1) 40k rules for table spanning multi-assaults are clunky or non-existant. 2) I have no idea how bike/infantry units work when running+charging and the bike has presumably turbo boosted to maintain unit coherency. 3) One turn of shooting a greentide at 1-2000 points will probably never be enough if you wern't able to defeat it in close combat anyway.
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 8, 2015 18:22:27 GMT -5
Ah; infiltrate would be a decent ability. I don't have scouts which could potentially deny a few spots, depending on who puts down infiltrators first but even if I did have scouts it would be like: Me - place 5 scouts, Tread - place a large mob, Me - where can I put my scouts ?? emptyhat - I was thinking the same in terms of dropping the devastators but then would have virtually no firepower. If Tread trades sluggas for shootaz his big mob could just gun us both down in overwatch/ shooting. Similarly artillery will be a waste of points; it moves too fast and then there's nothing for the artillery to do, esp. if Tread's dropping the backfield truck for deffkoptaz, which will munch piddly artillery tanks for breakfast, shooting in from our flanks.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 8, 2015 20:10:00 GMT -5
I could have used the Sents as counter scouts (when is it you declare what is scouting anyway?) But since Tread got first turn I guess it wouldn't have worked.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 9, 2015 16:52:18 GMT -5
shooty tide would only be able to fire at one target, kind of a waste of 200 shoota shots.
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 9, 2015 17:12:43 GMT -5
Not if you get charged by any plucky units wiv a deff wish ; you'll have a lot more overwatch in range
But yeah you'll have less attacks
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 9, 2015 18:40:27 GMT -5
If you were after sneaky tricks you could send in a dreadnought - the power klaws and big choppa's would be able to kill it so the "our weapons are useless" rule wouldn't kick in, yet due to the size of the tide you could charge an area with low threat density and tarpit the horde until the independent characters make their way over to the fight.
another tactic would be to castle up on both sides forcing the tide to choose one flank, this would leave one half of the army free to claim objectives - unless the tide spread super thin which could be risky for its coherency.
sniper units would also be good for precision shooting the HQ's with special buffs.
Flyers would be able to chew through it too, a valkyrie's MRP's would be fairly lethal as would anti-infantry storm talons or storm ravens with the added advantage of being immune to the assualts (only downside is the tide could prevent the flyer from being placed on the table due to lack of space which equals death to the flyer... a weird and kinda stupid rule).
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 9, 2015 20:47:15 GMT -5
Don't we have ongoing reserves rule now?
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 10, 2015 15:01:06 GMT -5
I doubt you could stop a flyer entering play through reserves; at least until past turn 3, and if that's the case your opponent's army will probably already be in ruin. All they need to do is get the base on the table edge 2" away from you.
Unfortunately I can't use dreads because of the background story but I love ironclads in drop pods.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 10, 2015 17:20:05 GMT -5
Flyers would be able to chew through it too, a valkyrie's MRP's would be fairly lethal as would anti-infantry storm talons or storm ravens with the added advantage of being immune to the assualts (only downside is the tide could prevent the flyer from being placed on the table due to lack of space which equals death to the flyer... a weird and kinda stupid rule). Where is that rule Tread? Flyers or reserves?
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 10, 2015 17:51:02 GMT -5
Another rules thought : If the tide was already locked in combat at various points, would it then have been able to pursue the imperials who failed morale tests? If not it could have ended differently; with the guard being able to rally, rather than die and for the marines ATSKNF wouldn't have needed to have kicked in, either. when is it you declare what is scouting anyway? Right at the start when before you deploy you're supposed to explain which units are infiltrating or outflanking. Then warlord traits or other special rules (eg space wolves get a random chance) could give you more infiltrators on top.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 10, 2015 18:59:47 GMT -5
Flyers would be able to chew through it too, a valkyrie's MRP's would be fairly lethal as would anti-infantry storm talons or storm ravens with the added advantage of being immune to the assualts (only downside is the tide could prevent the flyer from being placed on the table due to lack of space which equals death to the flyer... a weird and kinda stupid rule). Where is that rule Tread? Flyers or reserves? I think it may have more relevance to flying monstrous creatures.. or possibly be a 6th edition rule. I can see that ongoing reserves would resolve most flying issues though.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 10, 2015 22:28:13 GMT -5
Oddly enough I can't see the line that says units that can't be placed should be put into ongoing reserves. I can't find the part that says that flyers that can't be placed die either.
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 11, 2015 15:07:39 GMT -5
There's no mention specifically. On p.84 it states that flyers move over units and terrain , exactly like a skimmer
Then there's this but it doesn't make much sense when thinking of flyers.
p.136 ; 'moving on from ongoing reserve' = ".... if a model's maximum move is insufficient to fit the entire model on the board, or it becomes Immobilised whilst moving onto the board, place the model as far onto the table as you can. If this leaves the model in a position....."
Edit : but p.84 also states that a model moves its maximum move when coming on from the table edge, so does that mean that flyers should actually come on, zooming 18-36"?
*Yoda voice* Much confusion in the reserves, there is.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 11, 2015 16:21:50 GMT -5
Creating an 18-36" exclusion zone is hard for the Greentide, which wants to be in combat. Close combat rules oblige the models to squeeze in close. However, the number of boyz you field in 5-6k games as mobs of 30 can cause a lot of problems for your opponent.
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 11, 2015 19:47:59 GMT -5
5-6k should be on a bigger table in the first place; ideally 8' x 4' minimum
Back in 3rd edition fantasy/ rogue trader days - in the late 80s and early 90s - people were fixated on 3000 point armies for fantasy at least, and tables were always 8' x 4'
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 12, 2015 8:11:15 GMT -5
Another rules thought : If the tide was already locked in combat at various points, would it then have been able to pursue the imperials who failed morale tests? If not it could have ended differently; with the guard being able to rally, rather than die and for the marines ATSKNF wouldn't have needed to have kicked in, either. interesting question... but then how far does an ork have to pursue a fleeing guardsman to kill them? - if they kill them as they turn then the ork doesn't move.
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Post by nutty on Dec 12, 2015 11:25:12 GMT -5
Another rules thought : If the tide was already locked in combat at various points, would it then have been able to pursue the imperials who failed morale tests? If not it could have ended differently; with the guard being able to rally, rather than die and for the marines ATSKNF wouldn't have needed to have kicked in, either. interesting question... but then how far does an ork have to pursue a fleeing guardsman to kill them? - if they kill them as they turn then the ork doesn't move. After all the units involved in the combat have fought, you add upp the casualties inflicted on each side to determine who wins the combat and determine the -ld modifier. The units on the loosing side then make their breaktest on an individual basis, and (assuming the imperials lost the combat) one of two things happens: 1) the Imperials all break: Which is quite possible, seeing as the total modifier could reach something silly like -10. The tide then makes a single test for sweeping advance and every imperial unit tests individually. If they score lower they are cut down (unless they have ATSKNF), if they score higher they get away safely. 2) one (or several) Imperial unit(s) pass the test: The tide is still locked in combat and is not allowed to make a sweeping advance, all the broken Imperial units automatically get away. The problem with option 1) is that the rules are not clear; all units test (and break) at the same time, and they are all caught (or get away) at the same time. You could argue that the Guardsmen, that are caught by the Orks, would get cut down because they do not have ATSKNF. On the other hand: if a unit of marines is caught at the same time they would remain locked in combat instead, technically dissallowing the Orks from sweeping all together and giving the guardsmen an automatic escape. I hope this helped
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 12, 2015 11:46:06 GMT -5
2) one (or several) Imperial unit(s) pass the test: The tide is still locked in combat and is not allowed to make a sweeping advance, all the broken Imperial units automatically get away. The problem with option 1) is that the rules are not clear; all units test (and break) at the same time, and they are all caught (or get away) at the same time. You could argue that the Guardsmen, that are caught by the Orks, would get cut down because they do not have ATSKNF. On the other hand: if a unit of marines is caught at the same time they would remain locked in combat instead, technically dissallowing the Orks from sweeping all together and giving the guardsmen an automatic escape. We got as far as this bit of logic during the game. "Hmmmm, so they either do all get killed, or maybe they don't." RUUUUUUULES! (We went with 1 though.)
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Post by cheminhaler on Dec 12, 2015 15:40:10 GMT -5
Yes, I keep confusing the old fantasy rules for running away from combat. It's just too deeply indoctrinated; might need to tattoo the new rules on my face. And then be sued for copy-right infringement, as well as being never able to see it. nutty ; there was actually drawn turn but it was towards the end when the orks hadn't much to strike at, and the marine captain went super psycho. Most other turns were -10 to -15, but still managed a couple of snake eyes leadership tests.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 13, 2015 13:34:20 GMT -5
didn't everything imperial fail on the first turn - leading to empty's guardsman platoon being killed.
I think the snake eyes were later.
not completly sure though - as the turn in which we removed the guard platoon we also rewound time to run the alternative set of rules based on ATSKNF, which still lead to the guard being killed but kept other units locked.
i think.
maybe.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 13, 2015 19:02:24 GMT -5
The combat began in Ork Turn 2. All the Guard died in Imperial Turn 2 (the second round of combat. And it wasn't a guard platoon that died. It was every single guard infantry model that hadn't already been killed.)
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