1,000 point's of bits'n'peices

[that1guy]

So I'm making a 1,000 point list to bring as an allied army along side my friends who play space marines... except those dark Angels, don't trust them man. 

The list will be centered around my Agis Defense Line and base strategy will be to employ it around a dilapidated building (think 1'x1' card board box foot and a half tall with 3-4 floors & window's cut into the terrain piece) and fill both of them with meat.

  The objective of this force listed in priority:


Main Objective - to hold an objective for our alliance thus scoring victory points for our side.

Secondus Objective Alpha - to help maintain air supremecy through anti-aircraft fire.

Elementary Objective Brutus - Provide fire support for ally.

Would a veteran's squad kited out in camo gear with the forward sentries doctrine + max sniper rifles + ML + flak upgrade to deploy with in the delapidated building and pick off aircraft & flyrant's be a bright idea?


Would it be worth bringing two heavy weapon's team's? A lazcannon team & ML's was what I was thinking of, I was even thinking of bringing Flak Missile's acrossed the board but I'm wondering if it's really worth the points.


I'd like to bring lot's of Special weapon's teams just because I have them but honestly I'll prolly just throw one in there with plasma gun's just because of West Rider's advice.


 Who would be a good operator for my quad gun?  Maybe a PCS? Any thoughts?



For HQ's I was going to hide my warlord in the delapidated building and keep a 2nd Company Commander outside with enough extra's like an Ordinance expert, plasma pistol, maybe a Grenade Launcher for good measure, ect.  and try to make the 2nd in command a juicier target with more points invested in bling.

Hopefully extending my Warlord's life expectancy but as we all know... the 41st Millennium is Grimdark, stuff happens.  

Do I want to load both my HQ slot's with vox caster's?

Do I want to bring more than one PCS for this size of list & do I want all of them to have vox caster's if the 

While I'm throwing around idea's I was thinking of bringing a plain old squad of infantry with a GL & ML + flak to also take pot shots at flyer's.  Because I have GL's and want to bring them. 

Any advice?

[gamma016]

Is this going to be an allied detachment or a regular CAD? My thoughts are that you should bring Yarrick for HQ and a 30 man blob with Autocannons for troops. Have Yarrick join the squad and man the quad gun with BS 5. He can then order the unit and makes them hard to kill with his no moral test from shooting. Also I'd consider bringing some vandettas as they are great anti air units.

[nutty]

I personally stay away from flak missiles... those things are way to expensive for what they do.

As for the rest of the list:

If you want to hold onto an objective, a blob with a commissar will be pretty hard to shift. Yarrick has the added benfits as described by Gamma above, but is pretty pricey for 1k.

What is your buddy/teammate fielding? That way you can alter your list to support & complement his.

If he plans on bringing Azrael for example... that guy can turn a blob into something evil.

[that1guy]

It's going to be an allied detachment. I may ally with Tau, ultra marine's, space wolves & Blood Angel's.

Anybody else agree or disagree with the flak missile's?

[gamma016]

I disagree with the flack missles, they are the same strength as an autocannon but with less shots for over twice the price. You will have the same chance of hitting a flyer with three Autocannons as you will with three flak missiles.

[that1guy]

Y'know what provides excellent anti-air support? That Fire Storm Redoubt from the Wall of Martyr's set.    Hmmmm...  anyway, my full 50 man unit of conscripts is just about finished.  And I've got to say... I'm pretty eager to field them.  

Nobody has any recomendations on how to set up my two CCS with vox?  I'm pretty sure I'm running a medic on my Warlord and stuffing him in the safest point of the entrenchment... 

How do y'all feel about me bringing two armored (that's all I've got, for now) sentinel's, one with an HK, both packing Lazcannon's.  My plan is to deploy them behind the ADL entrenched building area blocking line of site from 1st round annihilation.  Y'know if I lose the initiative.  Then to peek them out to get clear shot's and still maintain a little cover while perusing priority Armored Foe's.

[nutty]

The quadgun that comes with the Aegis line should be plenty of Anti-Air, providing the Tau/marine player you team up with brings some AA of their own. Unless you expect to face a lot of flyers, than you might need more.

Do you have a concept list ready? one where you fitted in al the stuff you plan to bring along? and an overview of what models you hava available.
It'd be a lot easier for us to give tips and offer suggestion if we have a list to look at.

For a 1000 point army I would personally only bring a single CCS, as two order should probably be enough to order the blob and a veteran squad around. I would use the second HQ slot to bring a basic Lord Commisar; he can keep the Blob behind the Aegis from running away, and man the quadgun. Yarrick has the added benefit of doing the same whilst being able to issue orders, but in a 1k army he's to expensive for my taste.

Looking at the unit's you posted, plus some suggestions you seem to have an alright basis:

1 CCS
- Vox
- Chimera (to keep them alive)

1 Lord Commisar (or Yarrick)

Infantry platoon
1 PCS
3 Infantry squads (blob)
-Autocannon
-Grenade launcher
1 unit of 50 conscripts

Aegis Line + quad gun

That adds up to around 600 points once you buy some more upgrades for the CCS, and maybe a priest or commisar for the conscripts, add in the two sentinels and a veteran squad to fill out your troop requirement your looking at 800 points, leaving you with 200 points to bring some punch to the table. Or if your going to purely focus on holding objectives: a second platoon or 2-3 veteran squads.

[treadiculous]

I'd advise you check the building damage rules - if you plan to put lots of guys in a building then your opponent may just shoot the building instead!

[emptyhat]

Unless it's a ruin. Which doesn't give that option.

[that1guy]

May 7, 2016 4:01:38 GMT -5 treadiculous said:

I'd advise you check the building damage rules - if you plan to put lots of guys in a building then your opponent may just shoot the building instead!

You guys are coming up with some of the most constructive advice I've ever seen on the interwebz! 


So far I'm looking at:

HQ;  CCS- Captain McZappyphaze + Plasma Pistol & Swagger stick
               Vox
               Medic

       CCS- Captain Monocle with the standard old laz pistol.
               Melta Vet
               ML team + flak
               GL vet
               Master of Ordinance

Agis defence line + Quad gun

Troop slot #1  PCS Gunnery Sgt. Badimus O. Assimo + powersword
                    Melta vet
                    vox
                    
                   Heavy weapon's squad 2 LC's & 1 ML 
Infatry blob : 3 squads 2 GL's, 1 Flame thrower, 1 Mortar, 1 AC, 1 HB & vox
                   50 conscripts + Commisar Vulkavitch + Plasma pistol

                   SWS; x3 Plasma Rifles.

Heavy support: Basilisk Emplacement.

Fast attack: 2 Armored Sentinel's + 2 LC's + 1 HK

2nd troop slot will be assigned to occupy the building or ruin... depending on how that goes.

PCS: Lt. Zyphimo + bolt pistol
       Max sniper vet's....    Maybe an ML team + flak.  While your arguments against the flak missile's are valid and they have swayed me against employing them in Heavy weapon's teams and standard infantry squads I'm still willing to wager on them in veteran squads where their higher BS will get more out of the points I've spent on them.
       
       Another squad of max sniper vet's + FS doctrine & maybe an ML + flak
 
  Consideration's;

  This doesn't mean I'm not willing to let you persist your argument and completely talk me out of them.  It's certainly possible I'll try them a couple of games and completely trim them out altogether but at the moment this is more about maintaining the integrity of the age old WYSIWYG rules, more for myself than for improving the competitive nature of the list at this moment.  Let's just say I want to bring two flak missile's. Do you guys think sniper vet's are good unit's to fire at Flyrant's?

  I have a hard time remembering all of my guys each round as it is now while I'm new and still getting used to the game and it's just less confusing to me to fire off everything in my army as is than to proxy more AC's, I'll certainly be adding more AC's to my army soon.
  
  Maybe I could fit another squad of plane jane infantry into the building, after looking through the strong hold rules and getting inspired I may bring a set of trenches & bunker instead of the ruin's or building... not to mention, I could bring a nother quad gun ontop of 

  I certainly want to bring those extra two turret's with the battle cannon's in the 3rd slot of fortifications the supplement allot's!  I do have them on Leman's Russes and could barrow them along with a card board proxy!

  @ Treadiculous; Do you think that is too much to entrench in the delapidated building? 

[treadiculous]

I'd consider using the CCS orders and possibly throwing in a primaris psyker to give your AA / AT missile launchers and lascannon a better chance of success: re-rolls to hi and monster hunter rules will be handy!

personally i like heavy weapon squads as they are efficient (with preference for mortars), however I also like to run a 50 man squad with 5 ML's to maximise on the CCS orders.

I've not used veterans in ages! (the fussy feckers won't deploy unless they get air dropped by a valk).

In theory snipers are good against high toughness units, and if I'm correct the flyrant can't take the really good armour save anymore so you'll be facing 3+.

Also consider the conscripts and the primaris psyker as 50 lasguns with extra shots due to orders will flashlight a flyrant to death.

the big bugs have lots of wounds, so high strength weapons are good, but multiple wounds is what you're after - and you've only got a turn before it comes into assualt you!

[that1guy]

To be honest I feel a little over whelmed with the Psyker rules, I may give it a try if I get the hang of it after 3 or 4 games. This list will evolve with a couple of games. What do you mean re-rolls to hi?

Maybe the Psyker in the sniper vet's? That'll give them re-roll's?

@ Nutty you're point to deploy my HQ's in chimera's to help keep them alive should work in an Imperial Bunker too. If I have the points I'll bring both.

But Lord Commisar Yarrick never stepped foot on Ebayimus Prime, although they have heard legend of him from the steel legion trooper's who keep waking up in the Ork jungles after suffering an Ork weird boy attack their reports even account for seperate attacks by the same xeno's psyker in different sector's of Armageddon.

These "trench whisper's" the Commissariat just discourages by uniform exchange incase of inquisitorial review. With the history of the 83rd we could ill afford another probe from any branch of the Inquisition.
 
What ever connection the twisted forrest's of Ebayimus Prime shares with Armegedeon is beyond their understanding.  And lest not forget ignorance is bliss.

[emptyhat]

I think I missed which factions you are up against but you must keep flamers away from your guys in the ruin/building. Given that that sort of terrain will bunch them together you could end up losing a lot of guys to even a single denies cover flamer template. I also read that in the new FAQ blasts hit all floors under them, again watch out for stuff that might deny you the save at the same time because only needing to overcome a guardsman's T will mean losing your guys quickly.

I don't think snipers are highly regarded but I think they would do well if you spammed them and then focused them on specific targets until said target was dead and then moved onto the next.

[nutty]

@that1guy : the problem is that under de current rules a Command squad cannot issue order whilst embarked in a vehicle/building, the chimera has a special rule that allows you to issue orders. You could put them on the battlements and issue orders from there, and upgrade the bunker to have a voidshield, and that will give your command squad some extra protection.

You could also look into getting a skyshield landing pad: for the cost of chimera & a meltagun you can give everything on top of the platform a 4++, and a model with a camocloak will get a 3+ cover save. This will make a blob seriously hard to shift, and help keep any Heavy Weapon Squads alive.

As far as psykers go: the "divination" discipline has a power that will twin-link the attacks of an entire unit (re-roll to hiT). Although these powers are usually random, "prescience" is a so called primaris power; meaning that a psyker that generates all of his/her powers from the divination table automatically knows it.

[that1guy]

My my. That IS a problem. :/

[emptyhat]

They can still give orders from a ruin though.

[that1guy]

May 10, 2016 10:44:20 GMT -5 emptyhat said:

They can still give orders from a ruin though.

So I would want to place one ruin on opposing table edge's in order to insure no matter what side of the board we deployed upon I can seize it?

[emptyhat]

May 15, 2016 17:08:54 GMT -5 that1guy said:

May 10, 2016 10:44:20 GMT -5 emptyhat said:

They can still give orders from a ruin though.

So I would want to place one ruin on opposing table edge's in order to insure no matter what side of the board we deployed upon I can seize it?

Sounds like there are some good reasons to do that. Unless there turn out to be good reasons to deny your opponents the certainty of having one.

[that1guy]

May 9, 2016 3:39:26 GMT -5 nutty said:

@that1guy : the problem is that under de current rules a Command squad cannot issue order whilst embarked in a vehicle/building, the chimera has a special rule that allows you to issue orders. You could put them on the battlements and issue orders from there, and upgrade the bunker to have a voidshield, and that will give your command squad some extra protection.

You could also look into getting a skyshield landing pad: for the cost of chimera & a meltagun you can give everything on top of the platform a 4++, and a model with a camocloak will get a 3+ cover save. This will make a blob seriously hard to shift, and help keep any Heavy Weapon Squads alive.

As far as psykers go: the "divination" discipline has a power that will twin-link the attacks of an entire unit (re-roll to hiT). Although these powers are usually random, "prescience" is a so called primaris power; meaning that a psyker that generates all of his/her powers from the divination table automatically knows it.

Can a unit embarked in a building RECEIVE orders?

[nutty]

Nope, you cant issue an order to an embarked squad (building or vehicle). Essentially if the squad isnt on the table it can not issue or recieve orders.

The exception to this rule are Chimera's; they have a special rule that allows an embarked officer to issue orders out of it.

I think it would be great if you could buy an upgrade for a bunker that allows officers to issue orders from them, or a formation similar to "the lord castellan's high command" from Apocalypse. Command bunkers make sense to me.. but who knows maybe in the new codex. Or you could just ask your friends if they are ok with it and make a houserule.

[that1guy]

May 28, 2016 12:50:45 GMT -5 nutty said:

Nope, you cant issue an order to an embarked squad (building or vehicle). Essentially if the squad isnt on the table it can not issue or recieve orders.

The exception to this rule are Chimera's; they have a special rule that allows an embarked officer to issue orders out of it.

I think it would be great if you could buy an upgrade for a bunker that allows officers to issue orders from them, or a formation similar to "the lord castellan's high command" from Apocalypse. Command bunkers make sense to me.. but who knows maybe in the new codex. Or you could just ask your friends if they are ok with it and make a houserule.

I mean it IS a command bunker, that would lead you to think you could possibly command from like y'know with in the bunker.

Anyway after fiddling with some number's I just need more las rifles, so uno momento.  I shall return with reinforcements.

[solidog]

Are you set on infantry? Because as a stationary force and with most of your potential allies being very attacking forces you could for just 585 have the artillery formation with Ccs in chimera 2 wyverns one hydra a manticore an enginseer and an agies defence line. That covers your anti air gives you the artillery you allies will most likely be lacking and still leaves you a nice amount of points to have a combined arms detach with Lord commissar and your blob squads. That's how I would run my guard as an allie. But you may not have those models or like that idea at all. Just an idea.

[that1guy]

Jul 26, 2016 13:04:24 GMT -5 solidog said:

Are you set on infantry? Because as a stationary force and with most of your potential allies being very attacking forces you could for just 585 have the artillery formation with Ccs in chimera 2 wyverns one hydra a manticore an enginseer and an agies defence line. That covers your anti air gives you the artillery you allies will most likely be lacking and still leaves you a nice amount of points to have a combined arms detach with Lord commissar and your blob squads. That's how I would run my guard as an allie. But you may not have those models or like that idea at all. Just an idea.

Well...  I kinda just bought a firestorm redoubt, & a trench set from the wall of martyr's.

And I think I can summon the meat to fill both a trench network and an Agis defense line.

    Add in a basiliks emplacement...

  Maybe I can afford to squeeze a chimera in there too.
    
   No that doesn't add up at all, maybe I should of just stuck with buying more lasriflemen but that redoubt set just looked so damn cool!   sigh.... I guess I'll just leave that expensive peice for a bigger list.

[that1guy]

Alrighty, so I've stocked up on a lot more infantry. I can pretty much bring a 1000 points of lasrifles kitted out with any special weapon's combinations you chaps can think of Sniper rifles, melta's, Plasma rifles, GL's and even the good old fashioned flame thrower. Aaaaand even two heavy flame throwers.

Heavy weapon's? like 4 auto cannon's, 2 laz cannon's, 2 Mortar's and more ML's than I can shake a stick at. couple HB's laying around too.
2 Wyvern's

2 Chimera's

1 turox w/ Twin linked AC

3 Leman's russessis... russe'ses... Russi?!? those nifty battle tanks and more on the way.

Now I want to Park my fancy 2 new Basilisk emplacements behind an infantry blob, camped out behind my 50 man conscript squad with a Commie packing a Plasma Pistol.

Oh yeah and they are going to be parked behind an Ageis Defense line with the Quad Gun. maybe they can all get Cozy in a big infantry blob meat wall.

I've got a sniper vet squad that needs to fit in there some where too... I like these guys and their nifty camo netting & snare mines.

[that1guy]

Jul 26, 2016 13:04:24 GMT -5 solidog said:

Are you set on infantry? Because as a stationary force and with most of your potential allies being very attacking forces you could for just 585 have the artillery formation with Ccs in chimera 2 wyverns one hydra a manticore an enginseer and an agies defence line. That covers your anti air gives you the artillery you allies will most likely be lacking and still leaves you a nice amount of points to have a combined arms detach with Lord commissar and your blob squads. That's how I would run my guard as an allie. But you may not have those models or like that idea at all. Just an idea.

For this one list, yes I would like a respectable infantry blob.  Although I am interested in hearing more about you're artillery formation and will make another list in the future.