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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 6, 2016 13:48:23 GMT -5
I've been following the codex leaks that have come out today on Dakka. I am officially super excited, since the Deathwatch appeals to my innate desire to make each space marine look as awesome as possible and tool them up with loads of unnecessary kit. Here are some highlights, collected from Dakka Dakka and BoLS. Take this with a grain of salt, obviously. - The DW Veterans kit comes with different shoulder pads for 17 different chapters (including several that haven't gotten much time in the spotlight) that can be used to represent 23 different chapters, depending on how you paint things. - The DW flyer is called the Corvus Blackstar, and it's totally bananas. For just under 200pts, you get a flyer with a bunch of missile launchers, twin assault cannons (which, as usual for Marine flyers, can be changed to Lascannons), and a 12 model transport capacity. It can also carry jump infantry and bikes(!), and is an assault vehicle. - There are two heavy weapons worth mentioning; the Frag Cannon and a new type of bolter. The cannon has two profiles, firing either as a template or as a short ranged autocannon with better AP. If it's within 12in of its target, then that second type becomes Str 9 AP 2. The other is a heavy bolter with a heavy flamer welded to it. As far as anyone can tell, there's no limit on the use of either. Both HWs are actually assault weapons regardless of the profile you fire with. - Terminator squads are 1-5 models. You can upgrade a power fist to include an auxiliary meltagun, which has no limit mentioned on how often it can be fired. You can use the melta in the shooting phase then the fist in the assault phase. - Bikes have Skilled Rider and Split Fire. - Most models have the Special Issue Ammunition rule from Sternguard vets. - Deathwatch Blackshields (a squad upgrade, one per squad) can double his attacks under certain circumstances. - Deathwatch Heavy Thunder Hammers are Str 10 AP 2, and cause instant death on a roll of 6 to wound. - Stalker boltguns are available, as are astartes shotguns. The shotgun has a couple different firing profiles. - Most of the formations can only have a max of 10 models. They give rerolls to wound against certain FOC types depending on the formation. Here's a collected list of the info.
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Post by emptyhat on Aug 7, 2016 2:50:22 GMT -5
The box is up on G-dubs website now. Looks like the Eldar stuff is around £125 worth of stuff in there with what looks like a new Ulthran model, not bad for a £95 box which also has Deathwatch stuff in there,. Must be frustrating if you bought Harlequins when they got their codex though.
I really like the sword on that one guy that looks like it is a Necron blade. Given that my Templars are on a massive crusade to find this one particular green sword I might have to get one of those for a conversion. The marines do look pretty sweet too and I would like to have some literal floating clown cars full of tricksy xenos.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Aug 7, 2016 18:04:59 GMT -5
Yeah, that blade definitely looks like a battlefield trophy pulled from a Lychguard or Triarch Praetorian...
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 7, 2016 18:16:09 GMT -5
Yeah, that blade definitely looks like a battlefield trophy pulled from a Lychguard or Triarch Praetorian... According to the rules its a power sword that forces passed invulnerable saves to be rerolled. If you want it, by the way, you can have it when I give you the Harlequin stuff. I'm not planning on using it, at least for the first kill team I build.
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Post by treadiculous on Aug 8, 2016 6:49:21 GMT -5
that's a tasty looking box set, my corsairs would benefit a lot from what's in the set.
the marines look suitably badass too... temptation!
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 8, 2016 15:13:57 GMT -5
More casualty markers.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 9, 2016 17:34:17 GMT -5
Second wave of minis will be put up for Preorder on the 16th, and ship on the 20th. No word on the troop boxes yet, but they may be included in that wave.
I'm already mapping out what I want to buy in my head. Just for fun, I'm going to roll a squad of two terminators with assault cannons and a veteran squad with two of those frag cannons and two of the infernus heavy bolters as one of the Kill Team formations, which means they'll function as a squad. Depending on bells and whistles, that'll mean the squad puts out ~20 shots a turn from 6-8 minis, or can drop six flamer templates of varying strength.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 9, 2016 17:58:56 GMT -5
And for those who have not seen it yet, I give you the Corvus Blackstar.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 12, 2016 22:33:54 GMT -5
I have the codex now if anyone has questions.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 13, 2016 3:14:28 GMT -5
What kind of charge would you recommend for a mine-initiated ambush against Deathwatch troops? Are talking old earthshaker shells, or should we just go for a full Vimy Ridge ammonal mine?
How would you rate them versus the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers?
Can Wraithcannons still suck them into the Warp?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 13, 2016 9:48:21 GMT -5
What kind of charge would you recommend for a mine-initiated ambush against Deathwatch troops? Are talking old earthshaker shells, or should we just go for a full Vimy Ridge ammonal mine? How would you rate them versus the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers? Can Wraithcannons still suck them into the Warp? - Vimy Ridge followed by throwing colonials at them. That's always the solution, regardless of the problem. - My money's on the Death Watch. - Yes, until 8th Ed 40k, when all space marines will be immune to the warp or warp powers if they accept the Ultramines primarch as their spiritual liege (or so I assume. Ward's apparently been hired to help out with the new edition).
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Post by emptyhat on Aug 14, 2016 12:44:22 GMT -5
What sort of model count are you likely to field at 1000 and 2000 points?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 14, 2016 16:42:40 GMT -5
Well, a full squad of 10 veterans with nothing on it comes close to 250pts, you're probably looking at maybe 20 troops and 2-3 vehicles at 1k, and 30-35 and 3-5 vehicles at twice that, just with more wargear.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 15, 2016 2:12:52 GMT -5
What kind of charge would you recommend for a mine-initiated ambush against Deathwatch troops? Are talking old earthshaker shells, or should we just go for a full Vimy Ridge ammonal mine? How would you rate them versus the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers? Can Wraithcannons still suck them into the Warp? - Vimy Ridge followed by throwing colonials at them. That's always the solution, regardless of the problem. - My money's on the Death Watch. - Yes, until 8th Ed 40k, when all space marines will be immune to the warp or warp powers if they accept the Ultramines primarch as their spiritual liege (or so I assume. Ward's apparently been hired to help out with the new edition). Well, I was planning on using Nurgle cultists, so a fair approximation of Australians, really. But do the Deathwatch have an awesome theme tune? Will that mean I can create renegade Deathwatch on Juggernauts?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 18, 2016 8:32:28 GMT -5
Deathmasque Get!
So far, I've built a squad with stalker boltguns (mostly converted) and a missile launcher and a melee squad. I also built three vanguard vets, upgraded two terminators and a librarian with shoulder pads, and converted the Artemis mini into a watch master using some Grey Knight bits.
The Good
- Oh God those storm shields are sexy. I'm buying another veteran kit mostly just to have two more of them.
- Most of the other weapons are nice too. The big hammers look better than I expected, and the new infernus heavy bolter and frag cannons are great. The bolters all look suitably high tech as well, compared to their normal siblings used by regular marines.
- The addition of shoulder pads from so many different chapters was a really great idea, and adds flavor to the marines, especially if you embelish them with bits you already have. Similarly, the DW shoulderpads from the sprue fit nicely on marines, with the slight caveat that jump packs may have a bit of an issue with the rim of the pad.
- A surprisingly good selection of unhelmeted heads are included.
- Want power weapons? This kit has them out the wazoo.
The Bad
- Lots of weapon options are missing. Admittedly, there are a lot of weapon options for the deathwatch, but still. The lack of special weapons isn't too big of an issue, since most Marine players will have scads of them laying around, and getting only one combi weapon is understandable (having options only for melta or flamer, less so...). It would be nice if they included inferno pistols and hand flamers, since the only place you can get those in plastic is in BA kits.
- They bolter arms are posed poorly. None of the marines are holding the bolter with both hands, meaning you will almost certainly have to use one of the power weapon arms for the other hand unless you have spare bits around to give them a chainsword or an empty hand or something. This is particularly irritating because A) it means your marines now cost 37pts each, base, since you're sort of boxed into giving them a power weapon, and B) a power weapon is a bad choice. Veterans can't get bolt pistols according to the codex, so unless you want to pay for a special pistol to replace the boltgun (and the specialist ammunition you're already paying for in the cost of the veteran), you're better off taking a lighting claw. You're getting the same number of attacks for the same number of points, but you can reroll wounds.
- The way the minis are cast makes it very difficult to mix and match like you can with other marine kits. DW veteran torsos only fit the backs that come with the kits, thanks to how the collar of the armor is cast. similarly, most of the arms have part of the hands attached, meaning it'll be difficult to give the weapons to other marines, or to use different arms than the one the kit comes with (if you want them holding it in different ways, for example). Its fantastically irritating.
- The Vanguard Vets in the boxed set lack the sprue with the cool bases and the non-jump pack chests. This is mostly an minor annoyance since Vanguard Vets need to have a jump pack anyway according, but it prevents you from using the kit to make more ground pounding veterans. My Vanguard sprues were also of surprisingly poor quality by recent GW standards, with significant mould lines and the first flash I've seen on a non-rhino GW kit in a while. Not a huge problem, but just sort of surprising.
Summary
I like the Vet box overall, but if you're going to build a watch company, you'd be better off getting 2 vet boxes and a generic tac squad box. You'll end up with more options and variety in your minis, and save about $30 compared to buying four boxes of vets.
Deathmasque, as a whole, is a good deal, especially you basically get a mini rulebook and the space elf clowns for free if you're just buying it for the deathwatch. I also plan on adding some Corvus Blackstars to my collection this weekend when they go up for preorder.
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Post by syphon on Aug 22, 2016 11:27:02 GMT -5
Honestly? I'm super unphased about this. This wouldn't get me out of my retirement, neither for playing nor collecting. I mean, we're seeing yet another spuhs mahreenz product. Is anybody even bothered anymore beyond sentinmental reasons?
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Post by nutty on Aug 22, 2016 13:00:46 GMT -5
My Tau are facing the new Deathwatch this Thursday, I don't know what to expect.. But I'm sure it'll be... interesting. It sounds like the Dathwatch is an extremely flexible force, special ammo en snipers everywhere, crazy heavy weapons, etc.
I'll try and remember to take notes & pictures so that I can post a batrep for those interested.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 22, 2016 13:21:42 GMT -5
nutty: Please do, I'd be interested to see how they pan out. syphon: The rules and some of the new wargear are pretty bananas, and people are excited about the flexibility of the force The playstyle is reasonably unique, with Grey Knights arguably being the closest. I agree about marine oversaturation, and it looks like it will be better as an ally force than anything. Personally, I love the Deathwatch fluff-wise (I won't bore you with why), and I love the minis. The Blackstar is actually the first non-FW marine flyer I like, and those storm shields are really fantastic (at least, if you like the big tower shield look, and I do).
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Post by nutty on Aug 25, 2016 17:52:54 GMT -5
So my Tau faced the Deathwatch today and like true examplars of the Greater Good; blasted them to tiny bits. I've made some notes and took a couple of pictures to make a batrep which I'll post some time tommorrow. There was so much going on in that army that I'd really like to post his army list to clarify some points.
My buddy had some bad luck, and we both agreed he tried to fit to much toys into his list. Which made the game a bit one-sided. But the army has some great potential: you can customize the squads to be able to deal with anything and/or everything, and the miniatures look great.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 26, 2016 20:01:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the report, Nutty. I had a similar conclusion about trying to stuff too many goodies into one squad and redid some wargear on mine. It's alarmingly easy to end up with a squad of 40+pt marines. Did he proxy any Corvus flyers?
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Post by nutty on Aug 27, 2016 10:59:57 GMT -5
Hey Reds,
I'll post the actual batrep tonight/early tommorrow morning: i should have some time to complete it during my nightshift. He proxied one corvus; it may depend on the loadout but it looked like it was mainly designed to kill light infantry, lots of blasts and a twin-linked assault cannon.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 27, 2016 16:41:02 GMT -5
Honestly? I'm super unphased about this. This wouldn't get me out of my retirement, neither for playing nor collecting. I mean, we're seeing yet another spuhs mahreenz product. Is anybody even bothered anymore beyond sentinmental reasons? like I say, they'll make good casualty markers.
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Post by nutty on Aug 27, 2016 17:32:11 GMT -5
After having played them and taking a look at the codex, I doubt I'll start a Deathwatch army myself. They have some nifty toys & tricks, but at the end of the day they are a Marine army that sometimes gets to deepstrike everything. And since I already have two marine armies.. I don't really need a third.
But the models are pretty and they can take all sorts of wargear combinations, so from a modelling perspective they are an interesting option. If you don't have a PA army.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 30, 2016 22:21:48 GMT -5
Finished building all my DW marines, 38 total including the terminators and the HQs. I also built the first of three Corvus Blackstars (n the ALL THE MISSILES configuration). It's shockingly easily to build, especially compared to the Valkyrie or Stormraven(and no stupid clear plastic cockpit, yay!). Seeing it in person, I still really like it, and it passed the all important test of "Did I pick it up and fly it around with my hand while making airplane noises?".
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Post by treadiculous on Aug 31, 2016 3:59:27 GMT -5
they do look like nice model airplanes, my question is how many circuits did you do and what were the targets of the bombing runs?
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