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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 8, 2016 7:22:45 GMT -5
Hey guys, first list using the 7th ed Dex, feedback appreciated.
HQ
Space Marine Captain
Boltgun
Power sword
Troops
Tactical Squad
Vet sergeant
Flamer
Combi flamer
Tactical Squad
Vet sergeant
Flamer
Combi flamer
Tactical Squad
Vet sergeant
Flamer
Scout squad
x5 sniper rifles
Teleport homer
Elites
Terminators
Assault Cannon
Heavy Support
Devastator Squad
4x Heavy Bolters
Total 750 Points
Yet to see my opponents actual list, but I know he is running 40 shoota boyz, 2 battle wagons, a warboss and 3 deffkoptas.
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 8, 2016 11:10:08 GMT -5
Might drop the teleport homer for another combi flamer, and start with the Terminators deployed. Not too sure yet.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 8, 2016 14:07:50 GMT -5
So that's about 690 points of Orks, deffkoptas pay nothing for rokkits instead of bshootas (watch out for them Instant Death sniping the captain). Warboss will maybe suck up another 30 points of upgrades and then probably rokkits on the boyz and wagons. You don't have much AT do you? So Orks do best standing off, firing from the transports whittling you down.
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Post by nutty on Dec 8, 2016 18:14:37 GMT -5
It looks like a solid base to an army but like emptyhat said: a bit light on Anti-tank. Assault cannons can do some damage but are short ranged, so your opponent can simply drive off 6" every turn and the termies will not catch up.
You could consider swapping out one of the tactical squads for an assault squad without the jump packs; that will allow you take two flamers in a five man squad, save a few points on the combi-flamer, and give your captain a retinue (if you decide to DS the terminators) to run around with. The points saved could then be used to upgrade one of the flamer tactical squads to a melta/combi melta, or a plasmagun and a meltabomb somewhere else. That'll allow the marines to defend themselves against light vehicles, without changing the list to much... And you have an excuse to rush forward and punch some greenskins in the face.
Personally I would drop the teleport homer and the veteran upgrades for the sarges so I could get a Pod or Rhino, but you might not have the models to do so.
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 8, 2016 18:33:05 GMT -5
I do happen to have 2 rhino's... and sounds like solid advice, thanks guys. I'll see about getting a re-work going tomorrow.. The lack of AT had hit me as a problem, just don't really have the models to provide a solution to hand, though, I would probably benefit much more if I made it 2 tac squads, each with specific roles, and probably using the Rhinos.. Once again, cheers gents  Dave |
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 9, 2016 6:10:00 GMT -5
my thoughts;
heavy bolters suck, don't bother: your devastators will only kill 4 orks per turn (if the orks have no cover).
trade them in for something useful.
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 9, 2016 6:17:19 GMT -5
Even with Bolter Drill being a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists? Wow... But I like them.. They have MK III Crusader armour..  |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Dec 9, 2016 11:15:31 GMT -5
I'm going to vouch for Bolter Drill, at least at low point games. I'd say playtest them.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 9, 2016 11:47:34 GMT -5
Bolter drill h.bolters and bolters are ok. In our Ork vs Space Marine games Chemin found them about as good as he found them annoying depending on how many hard targets there were to soft ones. I think they got dropped for all the lascannnons around the time I was fielding Stompa+ dredd mob. Lots of Orks in your buddies list to get boltered but with no way to crack the Bwaggons at range (except teleporting an assault cannon behind them) you will have a rough time.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 10, 2016 20:37:12 GMT -5
I think Bolter Drill increases the kills to 5.3 average. (check my sums using this: www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/shooting.php ) Looking at the rest of the list I'd recommend Empty's advice; get some form of ranged anti-tank It's a shame about Heavy Bolters, I really like the look of a devastator squad with them, they look great; MkIII's must look awesome! Can you get any kind of orbital bombardment unlocked by your commander? |
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 11, 2016 13:11:06 GMT -5
If I upgrade him to a chapter master, then he gets it, but, otherwise, he's just a model who can hold his own in cqb. I am contemplating on dropping the Terminators for a dreadnought and free some points up.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 11, 2016 15:03:07 GMT -5
What does the dreadnought have?
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 12, 2016 4:34:48 GMT -5
Power first with a built in storm bolter, may try and convert it to a heavy flamer, and a multi melta |
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 12, 2016 11:14:37 GMT -5
Is it an assault cannon on the other arm? That doesn't sound much better than the termies.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Dec 12, 2016 11:35:49 GMT -5
A las/missile combo, or even just one of them, would be better. I wish I had known you had a dread, I would have sent some spare weapon arms.
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 12, 2016 15:35:47 GMT -5
Powerfist w/ built in storm bolter and a Multi-Melta (Black reach). That comes at 100 points, freeing up 95 points I believe, and also, from thinning out the tactical marines and altering load outs, etc. I can make room for other bits of kit, maybe a ML for the scouts. More AT throughout.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Dec 12, 2016 16:49:55 GMT -5
Just spitballing, but you could always take a TL Las or Las/Plas Razorback for the Devs, and just tuck it into cover somewhere with no one in it and have it snipe.
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 12, 2016 16:55:28 GMT -5
That's a pretty good idea to be honest reds.. I was thinking armour couldn't go far wrong
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 12, 2016 16:59:17 GMT -5
MM sounds passable BS3 S8 Ap1 is somewhat dangerous to two battlewagons, enough that I'd worry about holding at 24" to rokkit spam you. A lucky rokkit hit might take out the weapon but it seems a good choice. Allocate all CC attacks to any Klaw orks (if you are in base contact you can pick).
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 12, 2016 17:01:20 GMT -5
Oh and dreads strike at initiative. So I4 powerfisting ahead of the I3 big choppas and I1 klaws.
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Post by nutty on Dec 12, 2016 17:08:57 GMT -5
Although it would cut into the cool factor of the unit, so feel free to disregard, you could upgrade the weapons on the devs: tank-hunters helps make some of those weapons fairly effective.
But dropping the termies would free up a fair bit of points for ranged Anti-tank, something to consider for sure.
Or just go have some fun and make changes afterwards.
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Post by treadiculous on Dec 13, 2016 7:18:21 GMT -5
The dread will be vulnerable to the deffkopta's so be wary.
Red's advice is solid here, the TL lascannon will work well, and gives more armour choices for the orks to contemplate.
Heavy Bolters are tailored to hunting deffkopta's with the higher Strength and Ap4, use them to protect the dread.
Chapter master with orbital bombardment, Razorback with TL LC, Dreadnought with MM VS Terminators + Assault cannon.
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Post by emptyhat on Dec 13, 2016 7:32:43 GMT -5
The dread will be vulnerable to the deffkopta's so be wary. Red's advice is solid here, the TL lascannon will work well, and gives more armour choices for the orks to contemplate. Heavy Bolters are tailored to hunting deffkopta's with the higher Strength and Ap4, use them to protect the dread. Chapter master with orbital bombardment, Razorback with TL LC, Dreadnought with MM VS Terminators + Assault cannon. I was going to say that, but in close combat it should eat all three even with buzzsaws. So you just need to watch out for cheeeky rokkits in the AV10. But if they are swooping in for that you migth be able to nail them first with the heavy bolters. |
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Post by The Hawk! on Dec 13, 2016 8:21:10 GMT -5
Crimson Fist 750 points vs Orks MK II
HQ
Captain
Power Sword
Combi Melta
Melta Bombs
Chapter Master
Artificer Armour
TROOPS
Tactical Squad
Combi flamer
Flamer
Tactical Squad
Vet sergeant
Power fist
Combi melta
Melta gun
Razorback w/ TL assault cannon
ELITES
Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Power fist w/ built in storm bolter
HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastator Squad
4 heavy Bolters
Razorback w/ TL Lascannon
Total: 750 points
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Dec 13, 2016 9:01:04 GMT -5
I like it. If you want to save points, consider turning the assault cannon razorback into just a normal Rhino. The cannon is nice, but having the Rhino allows you to fire the melta and combi melta out the top. You can also run the rhino around at full movement without having to worry about that expensive cannon being rendered unusable.
If you can get your hands on a third Rhino (you will never have enough rhinos), I'd take that instead of springing for the assault cannon or some of the captain's wargear.
Lastly, and this is just personal preference, but I'd suggest running a lighting claw on the captain. Thanks to that combi melta you're not getting an extra attack anyway, so you might as well get a reroll instead. I believe the price is the same, but I don't have the codex at my fingertips.
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